Afirmative Action...

[ZNFYRH]

H.R. is Human Resources.

In my experience being hired, and then in the future as an interviewer meant to represent Blacks, the point really is to make sure all the interviews are conducted with the same demeanor and that the same questions are asked.

That means the interview is scripted. The person who read a question in one interview has to be the person who reads it in the next interview. If the interview team is in a good and joking mood on Tuesday they have to be in the same mood on Wednesday to make sure that the interview process is as static as possible.

It sounds like a pain, but it really works. The worst part, after quotas, was when one person really stood out as the best one for the job, but you had to take the one minority that applied. That minority wouldn't be considered unless they were qualified, but they were no match for the top dog. And it really hurt me on a personal level to have to turn down the top dog who thought they were a shoe-in because there had to be a skin-color-quota to satisfy loud-mouths like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson.

Yes, I'm black... and in the words of Eddie from "Barbershop," "F*ck Jesse Jackson."

Seriously.

Their picking and choosing of which issues to represent only heightens racial awareness. That's the problem with people like them. What you want is a decrease in racial awareness. You want people to be color blind. The second you shake race in their faces... or say that certain words are used because of race (like what happened with Don Imus), you undo all the hard work that is done by real, honest, working class Blacks who want their color to be unnoticed.

If Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson were a real, working-class Black, they would know what it feels like to walk into work one day and have everyone looking at your strange or nervous to talk around you, just because some shock jock insulted a girls basketball team and A.S. or J.J. made it racial.

Sorry for the soapboxing... I hate when that happens...

But the point is that Affirmative Action isn't just about Blacks... it can be used effectively to ensure equal opportunity for all races, genders, ethnicities, etc. Instead, the loud-mouths turned it into more racism.

[tivodan1116]

Quote by: Jimmy the Pro I do not favor affrimative action because it ignores the part of equal responsibility, however I believe it is up to the government to somehow find a way that everyone should have equal oppertunity.

How is that not already being done within the reasonable bounds of the government? Everyone in the country has the ability to sign their kid up for roughly the same crappy public education at age 5. Everyone has the right to the same federal financial aid programs which enable job training or college. Everyone has the right to join the military unless they are gay (how stupid). The government provides housing, food, and clothing to make people comfortable until they finish their education and hopefully break the cycle of poverty. What more opportunity do we need?

Sure you can tell me that everyone has "rights" and "Constitutional protection" but without quality education there is no income,

There is quality education all over. What has to happen is students taking advantage of it.

with no income there is no affordable living, without affordable living there is the streets, and on the streets I see no oppertunity.

In case you missed it, housing is provided for people that can't afford it. It's not the Taj Mahal, but should it be???

In courts when I see a poor african american family using a public defender with tons of cases and just putting this one at the back of his mind and trying to settle and not win then the prosecutor with his high dollar attorney looking to press charges and seek jail time, I don't see equal oppertunity.

First of all, it's black. Or brown, or whatever... I don't think when you wrote this you meant Dave Matthews or Charlize Theron, so "African American" is a misnomer.

Obviously you don't go to courts and "see" much of anything. Prosecutors are attorneys and they certainly are not "high dollar". In many counties (like mine) the PD's and DA's make the same pay scale.

[ZNFYRH]

On African-American...

If a Black person tells you to say, "African American," please by all means be rude to them. Ask them when they became a citizen, and which part of Africa they were a citizen previously.

The only time a person should be hyphenating their nationality is when they have dual citizenship. "African American" isn't an ethnicity. As tivodan correctly pointed out, Charlize Theron is more African-American than any Black person living in the ghetto who was born in this country.

Similarly, it's White, not Caucasian. Caucasian is a term for an Asian from the Caucasus mountain region.

[Chancellor]

Quote by: ZNFYRH On African-American... If a Black person tells you to say, "African American," please by all means be rude to them. Ask them when they became a citizen, and which part of Africa they were a citizen previously. The only time a person should be hyphenating their nationality is when they have dual citizenship. "African American" isn't an ethnicity. As tivodan correctly pointed out, Charlize Theron is more African-American than any Black person living in the ghetto who was born in this country.

I don't believe in hyphenated Americans. If one is born in the United States or is a naturalized citizen then one is an American.

Similarly, it's White, not Caucasian. Caucasian is a term for an Asian from the Caucasus mountain region.

In this case, it refers to someone of the caucasoid "race" (one of the racist distinctions early sociologists and anthropologists came up with in the 19th century in order to give "scientific" validation to the European/American belief in white superiority).

[GHook93]

Does it create an unfair advantage and go against the 14th amendment's equal protection clause? Yes. But is is a good temporary evil? Yes. Is the need for affirmative action less now? Yes. Is it still needed, but at a lesser degree? Yes. Was it a just program in the beginning? Absolutely.

As a white man I can say that affirmative action was a just and needed program. The need is going down; however, it is still need put at a lesser degree.

[SleepingOwl]

If a Black person tells you to say, "African American," please by all means be rude to them. Ask them when they became a citizen, and which part of Africa they were a citizen previously.

My black friends told me the same thing. It feels awkward though because some white people are afraid of calling a black person black for fear of being labeled a rascist which is "bad"

How is that not already being done within the reasonable bounds of the government? Everyone in the country has the ability to sign their kid up for roughly the same crappy public education at age 5.

If you think all public schools are equal in their crappiness, you dont know how they work. Most schools get their funding from property taxes within their area. If a school is near a lake and house prices go up because there is lakeside property, the school gets more funding. On the other side, if a school is in a poorer part of town with crime, and no one wants to live there, houses will be cheap and the school wont get as much funding.

Does it create an unfair advantage and go against the 14th amendment's equal protection clause? Yes. But is is a good temporary evil? Yes. Is the need for affirmative action less now? Yes. Is it still needed, but at a lesser degree? Yes. Was it a just program in the beginning? Absolutely.

You sound like you are preaching to yourself, it so convoluted now it doesn't matter and only creates red tape.

[Chancellor]

Quote by: GHook93 Does it create an unfair advantage and go against the 14th amendment's equal protection clause? Yes. But is is a good temporary evil? Yes. Is the need for affirmative action less now? Yes. Is it still needed, but at a lesser degree? Yes. Was it a just program in the beginning? Absolutely.

Because it goes against the 14th amendment (or any other part of the Constitution) there's nothing good about it. There is never a need in America for anything that is unconstitutional.

As a white man I can say that affirmative action was a just and needed program. The need is going down; however, it is still need put at a lesser degree.

Some might suggest that us white guys aren't qualified to speak about affirmative action.

[ZNFYRH]

Quote by: Chancellor Some might suggest that us white guys aren't qualified to speak about affirmative action.

Everyone is qualified to speak about Affirmative Action. Or should I say Affirmative Action Abuse?

Aff. Act. Abuse effects everyone because it presents the possibility that the most qualified person will not get the job.

Aff. Act., when applied correctly, ensures the best person gets the job.

[SleepingOwl]

Some might suggest that us white guys aren't qualified to speak about affirmative action.

Yeah, even though it is our job to put it into action.

[Jimmy the Pro]

I apologize to any and all people on this forum I've offended by using the term African-American. I meant no harm by it whatsoever but I understand how it has been view negatively and I will stop.

[SleepingOwl]

Aff. Act., when applied correctly, ensures the best person gets the job.

Could you explain this please. I am not sure I follow. Unless by person you mean physical characteristics.

[ZNFYRH]

Jimmy the Pro

I'm not offended. Besides, you could say anything and those effing Gummi Bear Avatars make me feel warm and fuzzy.

SleepingOwl

The original intent of Affirmative Action (Aff. Act.) was to make sure that when there was hiring for a job, the process was done in such as way as to prevent race, religion, gender, etc. from being an issue.

When applied correctly, Aff. Act. has made sure that the best person got the job and there was no racial or other bias of any kind.

[SleepingOwl]

Ok so you are just saying that it was all well and good until they came up with the quota system?

[ZNFYRH]

The idea was good, but unfortunately the quota system started right up with it.

I would say that the more accurate wording is:

It is all well and good now that they've gotten rid of the quota system.

[Chancellor]

Quote by: ZNFYRH The idea was good, but unfortunately the quota system started right up with it. I would say that the more accurate wording is: It is all well and good now that they've gotten rid of the quota system.

The idea wasn't even good! It was nothing more than liberal paternalism - treating blacks as if they were a bunch of children needing parental assistance.

[SleepingOwl]

What do you mean they have gotten rid of the quota system? I thought it was still going.

I am not sure if it is the same thing, but it is similar. I read something about how some colleges have to try really hard to keep an even balance between men and women. I know on some campuses, co-ed dorms have to be perfectly balanced. i.e. same number of men and women on a floor, etc.

[Osborn F Enready]

Affirmative Action was a bad idea, and still is.

[ZNFYRH]

Quote by: Chancellor The idea wasn't even good! It was nothing more than liberal paternalism - treating blacks as if they were a bunch of children needing parental assistance.

You don't understand.

Aff. Act. was started not to help lesser Blacks but to put a stop to Whites who were denying Blacks their equal opportunities. It prevented racial bias and put Blacks on an equal footing with their competitors for a job.

Tell me how that's a bad thing?

Quote by: Osborn Affirmative Action was a bad idea, and still is.

How is it a bad idea to enable equal opportunity for all people?

Before either of you answer, I'm not talking about the abused system that is only now disappearing. I'm talking about the actual purpose of Aff. Act. that I detailed in my earlier post.

[Jimmy the Pro]

Quote by: ZNFYRH You don't understand. Aff. Act. was started not to help lesser Blacks but to put a stop to Whites who were denying Blacks their equal opportunities. It prevented racial bias and put Blacks on an equal footing with their competitors for a job. Tell me how that's a bad thing?

I believe the abuse of such is now causing dissent among posters here. Not neccesarily the idea.

[ZNFYRH]

Quote by: Jimmy I believe the abuse of such is now causing dissent among posters here. Not neccesarily the idea.

I realize that as well. Especially when I specifically stated the abuse of Aff. Act. in my previous post, versus the intent and idea of it.