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billybobama · Jul 25, 2007, 05:07 pm

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Quote by: Autolykos

First you commit an equivocation, which I have kindly pointed out. Now you commit a red herring in response.

I have nothing more to say here.

- Rob

I knew you had nothing to say. Because you cannot answer the question, and you know it. Thanks for proving me correct.

billybobama · Jul 25, 2007, 05:14 pm

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Quote by: sdbest

Even the most modest research effort produces an extraordinary number of scholarly articles debunking the Conservative and Libertarian notions of the efficacy of "Free Markets", for example ECONOMIC MYTHS by David C. Korten. It seems that faith in free markets correcting most human problems is just that "faith." And, like faith in a god, there seems to be little empirical evidence--but lots of theory--to justify absolute faith in something (like gods) that has never existed, can never exist, and which, if it did, would wreck havoc on the lives of most people.

Regards
S.

You make things far to complicated. Ask anybody, I mean anybody to name 1, just 1 FREE MARKET that has existed since the beginning of mankind. I assure you I can prove them a liar. Furthermore there will be no FREE MARKETS in the future. Anybody that wants to debate either of these points just bring it on.

billybobama · Jul 25, 2007, 05:19 pm

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Quote by: xyzer

Is there a better alternative? It seems that government control of markets has proven the worst way to go for many nations? Russia, Cuba, come to mind. China a communist socialist nation has even broken down and allowed a free market economy in some areas. And it hasn't tried to change the free market economy of Hong Kong that it inherited some decade back?.
ergo, I suggest that free markets are the best way to go. It has been proven that some tempering rules(laws) must accompany the system or its participants will cooperate and even form cartels and monopolies.(OPEC) thereby controlling demand and the resultant prices. So I would agree with Korten that unfettered free markets are mythical but if accompanied by minimum restrictions, they beat models governed by government intrusion. They are the best way to go...

You are so naive. It is just not Governments that control markets. Now if you want to argue for morkets not controlled by governments then make yourself clear. But believe me, when there is money and markets involved, there is always someone or some group fighting for more and more control.

Autolykos · Jul 25, 2007, 05:33 pm

Quote:

Quote by: billybobama

I knew you had nothing to say. Because you cannot answer the question, and you know it. Thanks for proving me correct.

For the record, I have chosen not to answer it, because it constitutes a red herring in the context of your original argument. I don't think I can make myself any clearer on this point.

If you still think I've somehow proven you correct, well, whatever lets you sleep at night.

- Rob

MachineCode0110 · Jul 25, 2007, 07:06 pm

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Quote by: Osborn F Enready

The only regulation in a free market is the protection of the individuals rights who make up that market.

Individual rights are ALL that are enforced in a free market.

Nope.

Rights aren't inherent to life. Therefore they only exist when a government grants them.

Autolykos · Jul 25, 2007, 07:14 pm

Quote:

Quote by: MachineCode0110

Nope.

Rights aren't inherent to life. Therefore they only exist when a government grants them.

Or when they are simply agreed to among a group of individuals.

- Rob

MachineCode0110 · Jul 25, 2007, 07:39 pm

A group of individuals can even form a collective.

Doesn't mean anyone else has to honor their "rights".

billybobama · Jul 25, 2007, 07:52 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Autolykos

For the record, I have chosen not to answer it, because it constitutes a red herring in the context of your original argument. I don't think I can make myself any clearer on this point.

If you still think I've somehow proven you correct, well, whatever lets you sleep at night.

- Rob

I threw down the gauntlet. Name 1, just 1 FREE MARKET that has ever existed in the history of mankind. If you cannot answer then you have no premise and are a coward for not admitting it.

smallpox · Jul 25, 2007, 08:29 pm

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Violence and other crime is never economically motivated, in the sense of seeking to acquire what others have? Please.

Why? You think your normative contingents prove anything behind such an outrageous statement? White collar crimes (the ones that cost our economy billions after billions, unlike street crime) is always at least partially economically motivated.

Kamehameha34 · Jul 25, 2007, 08:31 pm

Quote:

Quote by: billybobama

I threw down the gauntlet. Name 1, just 1 FREE MARKET that has ever existed in the history of mankind. If you cannot answer then you have no premise and are a coward for not admitting it.

That's a straw man.

What point will you extrapolate if he doesn't name a free market?

MachineCode0110 · Jul 25, 2007, 08:32 pm

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Quote by: billybobama

Name 1, just 1 FREE MARKET that has ever existed in the history of mankind.

Somalia in the late 90s early 2000s.

Alive · Jul 25, 2007, 08:34 pm

A free market requires governmental protection of private property. Strong and stable government is as much a necessity for free market as government non-involvement in the market itself.

smallpox · Jul 25, 2007, 09:00 pm

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That's a straw man.

What point will you extrapolate if he doesn't name a free market?

It's funny how an ideology based on supposedly inherited, "natural" features of man has never come to exist aside in the middle of chaos as pointed out by MachinCode.

MachineCode0110 · Jul 25, 2007, 10:24 pm

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Quote by: Alive

A free market requires governmental protection of private property.

False.

Private protection works better.

Alive · Jul 25, 2007, 10:50 pm

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Quote by: MachineCode0110

False.

Private protection works better.

Why don't you go live in Somalia then?

Kamehameha34 · Jul 26, 2007, 04:10 am

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Quote by: smallpox

It's funny how an ideology based on supposedly inherited, "natural" features of man has never come to exist aside in the middle of chaos as pointed out by MachinCode.

It's funny how you seem to think that you're making any points, or posing any coherent arguments.

billybobama · Jul 26, 2007, 08:31 am

Quote:

Quote by: Kamehameha34

That's a straw man.

What point will you extrapolate if he doesn't name a free market?

Like I originally stated. FREE MARKETS do not exist, have never existed and will never exist. It is just plain propaganda that fools fall for.

billybobama · Jul 26, 2007, 08:34 am

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Quote by: MachineCode0110

Somalia in the late 90s early 2000s.

Like I asked, please just give one shed of evidence or one example so I can prove you do not know what you are talking about. Example: The Bread Market? The Fuel Market? Which Market?

MachineCode0110 · Jul 26, 2007, 10:12 am

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Quote by: Alive

Why don't you go live in Somalia then?

Because my family lives here.

MachineCode0110 · Jul 26, 2007, 10:13 am

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Quote by: billybobama

Like I asked, please just give one shed of evidence

Somalia had no government for a good deal of the 90s and early 2000s.

Therefore, there couldn't have been any government regulations.

Therefore, it was a free market.

It's really not that hard.

Jul 25, 2007, 07:39 pm	#27 (permalink) (top)
MachineCode0110 Igneous Magma Posts: 320	A group of individuals can even form a collective. Doesn't mean anyone else has to honor their "rights".

Jul 25, 2007, 08:34 pm	#32 (permalink) (top)
Alive Human Posts: 679	A free market requires governmental protection of private property. Strong and stable government is as much a necessity for free market as government non-involvement in the market itself.