Volconvo is a debate forum for the discussion of political, religious, and news-based topics.

Jul 22, 2007, 08:30 am

I want to share this comment by Bill Maher with the Conservatives and the Liberals here on Volconvo.

"I'm in Boston today ... walking around the city has made me remember: oh yeah, America started here. That's right, America was invented by liberal men in Boston and Philadelphia. Not that I don't love all of America, but rednecks who think they're the real America should read a history book once in a while. George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Franklin, Madison -- the whole lot of them were well read, erudite, European thinking children of the enlightenment..."

Left to conservatives--like many of those posting on Volconvo--there would be no United States, no Constitution, and no Bill of Rights.

Regards
S.

iclaudius · Jul 22, 2007, 08:57 am

So what? Who cares? There is nothing inherently wrong with conservatism and liberalism, if that's what you're implying, and if they recognized anything, our founders clearly understood understood that both of those things acting in opposition to one another were almost prerequisites for a healthy nation. Almost. For the record, American conservatism could best be described as the supporting of the granting of privilege to some and not to others; American liberalism is the supporting of the equality in respects to the distribution of this privilege. Under those pretenses, I wouldn't say conservatism is completely useless. I think those're F. A. Hayek's definitions, by the way.

billybobama · Jul 22, 2007, 09:16 am

Quote:

Quote by: sdbest

I want to share this comment by Bill Maher with the Conservatives and the Liberals here on Volconvo.

"I'm in Boston today ... walking around the city has made me remember: oh yeah, America started here. That's right, America was invented by liberal men in Boston and Philadelphia. Not that I don't love all of America, but rednecks who think they're the real America should read a history book once in a while. George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Franklin, Madison -- the whole lot of them were well read, erudite, European thinking children of the enlightenment..."

Left to conservatives--like many of those posting on Volconvo--there would be no United States, no Constitution, and no Bill of Rights.
Regards
S.

Yea, nothing like a bunch of slave owning liberals. By the way, I think Boston is the most racist city in the U.S.A. Don't get me wrong, I love Bill Maher but he is a comedian and entertiner.

Jul 22, 2007, 11:04 am

[quote=iclaudius;412038]There is nothing inherently wrong with conservatism and liberalism, if that's what you're implying,.../QUOTE]

I beginning to think that conservatism is very wrong indeed. Perhaps you can tell me what's good about conservatism? No doubt there's something.

Regards
S.

Jul 22, 2007, 11:25 am

Quote:

Quote by: billybobama

By the way, I think Boston is the most racist city in the U.S.A. Don't get me wrong, I love Bill Maher but he is a comedian and entertiner.

What has the racist reputation of Boston got do do with the "founding fathers"? Can you define "specious"?

What does Maher's profession as a "comedian and entertiner" have to do with the quality of his comments? Were his observations incorrect? Were the founders of the United States conservatives?

Regards
S.

billybobama · Jul 22, 2007, 11:33 am

Quote:

Quote by: sdbest

What has the racist reputation of Boston got do do with the "founding fathers"? Can you define "specious"?

What does Maher's profession as a "comedian and entertiner" have to do with the quality of his comments? Were his observations incorrect? Were the founders of the United States conservatives?

Regards
S.

First. you metioned Boston as some liberal bastion. I do not see racism as liberal, maybe I am wrong. Second I believe the terms liberal and conservative are adjectives. I believe stupid people use the terms liberal and conservative as nouns to influence people who are even more stupid. This is just my opinion.

GHook93 · Jul 22, 2007, 11:54 am

Quote:

Quote by: sdbest

I want to share this comment by Bill Maher with the Conservatives and the Liberals here on Volconvo.

"I'm in Boston today ... walking around the city has made me remember: oh yeah, America started here. That's right, America was invented by liberal men in Boston and Philadelphia. Not that I don't love all of America, but rednecks who think they're the real America should read a history book once in a while. George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Franklin, Madison -- the whole lot of them were well read, erudite, European thinking children of the enlightenment..."

Left to conservatives--like many of those posting on Volconvo--there would be no United States, no Constitution, and no Bill of Rights.

Regards
S.

Yea they were slave owners also. Should I go out and grab some black guys to clean my house, because that is what out fore-fathers did. Our forefather were also war-mongers, remember they fought 2 bloody wars with the British. Does that mean that we can justify our war in Iraq.

Alive · Jul 22, 2007, 04:57 pm

According to you, liberals in those times are conservatives today (see conservatives are stupid thread). So I guess modern conservatives founded the United States.

**Chris** · Jul 22, 2007, 06:26 pm

Quote:

Quote by: billybobama

Yea, nothing like a bunch of slave owning liberals. By the way, I think Boston is the most racist city in the U.S.A. Don't get me wrong, I love Bill Maher but he is a comedian and entertiner.

How is Boston more racist than Pulaski, TN?

billybobama · Jul 22, 2007, 06:50 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Chris

How is Boston more racist than Pulaski, TN?

In my adult life Boston has had racial beatings and killings more tha any other city I have heard of. Just a personal obsrvation. Why do you not do a study and see?

saif · Jul 22, 2007, 07:31 pm

Complete Ignorance..

Why are there so many liberal are better the conservative posts? Is this where the volconvo debate forum found its niche? by allowing multiple posts on topics that any sane person would refrain from debating in? What do you hope to prove by posting such topics as this and why conservatives are stupid... perhaps if you had some vested interestin american politics, you would move to the usa and become some transplant socialist. Regardless of whatever political infighting exists within the government, it still remains the greatest country in the world.

billybobama · Jul 23, 2007, 08:42 am

Quote:

Quote by: Chris

How is Boston more racist than Pulaski, TN?

Just Google "Most Racist Cities" and Boston will be there. They are surely in the running.

GHook93 · Jul 23, 2007, 10:37 am

Quote:

Quote by: billybobama

In my adult life Boston has had racial beatings and killings more tha any other city I have heard of. Just a personal obsrvation. Why do you not do a study and see?

You made the baseless accusation, alia Barry Bonds, maybe you should do your own research!

GHook93 · Jul 23, 2007, 10:38 am

Quote:

Quote by: saif

It still remains the greatest country in the world.

Amen to that

Jul 23, 2007, 10:45 am

Quote:

Quote by: saif

.. on topics that any sane person would refrain from debating in?

... a topic you're debating in. So that must mean that you're ______________. [Fill in the blank.]

Regards
S.

LadiesMan217 · Jul 23, 2007, 01:22 pm

The founding fathers were liberal in their own according to what was going on at that time period, but the facts are that modern day conservatives are much more identical to ideaologies of the founding fathers. The fact is that if are country was founded by modern day liberals then you can be 100% positive that we wouldn't have a country. I cannot think of any modern day liberal ideology that would have justified taking the land from the Indians. But if thinking liberals founded America helps Sdbest sleep better at night then that is fine with me, it only further shows Sdbest's narrow-minded philosophy of Liberal good, Conservative bad.

saif · Jul 23, 2007, 01:51 pm

Quote:

Quote by: sdbest

... a topic you're debating in. So that must mean that you're ______________. [Fill in the blank.]

Regards
S.

Just because you have been unable to pass your "socially progressive" ideology upon the intelligent debaters here at Volconvo, does not give you the right to resort to cyber temper tantrums. The intention of my original post on this thread was to display to the mods that these types of threads, i.e. liberals founded, conservatives are stupid, are unproductive immature schemes that have know debating value. I wouldnt even complain if there was just one thread that you posted your garbage in but in fact are multiple threads of this nature...

billybobama · Jul 23, 2007, 02:56 pm

Quote:

Quote by: GHook93

You made the baseless accusation, alia Barry Bonds, maybe you should do your own research!

Like I said "Just Google most racist cities" and there is Boston.

5010 · Jul 23, 2007, 05:09 pm

Were they really liberal? I thought they were trying very hard to limit the power of the government. They made an elaborate system to make it hard to get much done in the Capitol. Despite their best efforts, the goverment has grown into its bloated present.

No, I think they were more libertarian than liberal. There's a huge difference.

Netopalis · Jul 25, 2007, 12:20 am

Just a quick note - I would say that most of the founding fathers would, by our current standards, be libertarians. They were certainly liberal in their time - the conservative position would have argued for a monarchy. Also, consider that a large reason for the Revolutionary War was high taxation, to support a larger government. Finally, consider that there were founding fathers across the board - Hamilton and Jefferson were polarizing figures in history, and both gained popular support by many of the founders of this nation.

Jul 22, 2007, 08:30 am	#1 (permalink) (top)
sdbest Guest Posts: n/a	Liberals founded the United States. I want to share this comment by Bill Maher with the Conservatives and the Liberals here on Volconvo. "I'm in Boston today ... walking around the city has made me remember: oh yeah, America started here. That's right, America was invented by liberal men in Boston and Philadelphia. Not that I don't love all of America, but rednecks who think they're the real America should read a history book once in a while. George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Franklin, Madison -- the whole lot of them were well read, erudite, European thinking children of the enlightenment..." Left to conservatives--like many of those posting on Volconvo--there would be no United States, no Constitution, and no Bill of Rights. Regards S.

Jul 22, 2007, 07:31 pm	#11 (permalink) (top)
saif Sword of Truth Location: Elmira, NY Posts: 225	Complete Ignorance.. Why are there so many liberal are better the conservative posts? Is this where the volconvo debate forum found its niche? by allowing multiple posts on topics that any sane person would refrain from debating in? What do you hope to prove by posting such topics as this and why conservatives are stupid... perhaps if you had some vested interestin american politics, you would move to the usa and become some transplant socialist. Regardless of whatever political infighting exists within the government, it still remains the greatest country in the world. (Click to expand) Come visit the Evolution of Thought Institute today!

Jul 23, 2007, 05:09 pm	#19 (permalink) (top)
5010 mostly harmless Location: USA Posts: 1,284	Were they really liberal? I thought they were trying very hard to limit the power of the government. They made an elaborate system to make it hard to get much done in the Capitol. Despite their best efforts, the goverment has grown into its bloated present. No, I think they were more libertarian than liberal. There's a huge difference. - solo (my site)

Jul 22, 2007, 08:57 am	#2 (permalink) (top)
iclaudius Igneous Magma Posts: 332	So what? Who cares? There is nothing inherently wrong with conservatism and liberalism, if that's what you're implying, and if they recognized anything, our founders clearly understood understood that both of those things acting in opposition to one another were almost prerequisites for a healthy nation. Almost. For the record, American conservatism could best be described as the supporting of the granting of privilege to some and not to others; American liberalism is the supporting of the equality in respects to the distribution of this privilege. Under those pretenses, I wouldn't say conservatism is completely useless. I think those're F. A. Hayek's definitions, by the way.

Jul 22, 2007, 11:04 am	#4 (permalink) (top)
sdbest Guest Posts: n/a	[quote=iclaudius;412038]There is nothing inherently wrong with conservatism and liberalism, if that's what you're implying,.../QUOTE] I beginning to think that conservatism is very wrong indeed. Perhaps you can tell me what's good about conservatism? No doubt there's something. Regards S.

Jul 22, 2007, 04:57 pm	#8 (permalink) (top)
Alive Human Posts: 679	According to you, liberals in those times are conservatives today (see conservatives are stupid thread). So I guess modern conservatives founded the United States.

Jul 23, 2007, 01:22 pm	#16 (permalink) (top)
LadiesMan217 MoreThanMeetsTheEye Location: Earth, Solar System Posts: 409	The founding fathers were liberal in their own according to what was going on at that time period, but the facts are that modern day conservatives are much more identical to ideaologies of the founding fathers. The fact is that if are country was founded by modern day liberals then you can be 100% positive that we wouldn't have a country. I cannot think of any modern day liberal ideology that would have justified taking the land from the Indians. But if thinking liberals founded America helps Sdbest sleep better at night then that is fine with me, it only further shows Sdbest's narrow-minded philosophy of Liberal good, Conservative bad.

Jul 25, 2007, 12:20 am	#20 (permalink) (top)
Netopalis Peculiar. Location: Bluefield, WV Posts: 179	Just a quick note - I would say that most of the founding fathers would, by our current standards, be libertarians. They were certainly liberal in their time - the conservative position would have argued for a monarchy. Also, consider that a large reason for the Revolutionary War was high taxation, to support a larger government. Finally, consider that there were founding fathers across the board - Hamilton and Jefferson were polarizing figures in history, and both gained popular support by many of the founders of this nation.