Things that Liberals believe that drive Conservatives nuts

[Deadeye]

Some one here posted a thread that stated that Conservatives are stupid. I've decided to chime in with a thread that outlines things that Liberals believe that drives Conservates crazy. So here goes:

1. A good effort equals success.

No, trying hard isn't enough. Success is all that matters.

2. All kids playing little league should get a trophy.

No only the winner should get one. Kids that are expert get rewarded. This inspires kids who aren't as good to try harder.

3. Illegal aliens do work that regular Americans won't do.

Nope, not so. When I was a kid in the 50's and 60's all work done in the US was done by White and Black Americans. We tilled the fields, picked the grapes, mowed the lawns, made the beds and hammered the nails. No Mexicans anywhere.

4. Mexican workers are underpaid.

Not always. When I was living in Napa, California Mexican vinyard workers made $12 to $16 an hour, and received full medical benefits. No Whites worked in the vinyards. Not because they didn't want to but because the Mexians wouldn't let them.

5. Failure in Iraq will be good for Americans' future.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

6. When in doubt let the government do it.

The government is almost always a failure at whatever it trys to accomplish. Why then, assign it with more tasks?

7. Cubans are better off under Castro.

The lives of the citizens in Cuba were much better before Castro took over than they are now.

8. Oh, he's trying so hard give him an "A".

No, give "A's" to only those who earn them.

9. Big Oil is screwing Americans.

No, Big Oil is providing gasoline.

It's the Arabs who are screwing Americans. I do agree that things could be done by the oil companies so that they could provide cheaper gasoline. First step is to reduce regulations so that more refineries could be built more cheaply.

10. Nuclear power is dangerous.

No, it's safe. Most industrial nations use it. France gets 60% of its power from nuke plants. Employing nuclear power would go a long way to solve our energy crisis.

11. Drilling in ANWAR is evil.

Just the opposite. Some think there's as much oil in ANWAR as there is under the Saudi desert. Let's go after it. The footprint in ANWAR would be only a mile to so square. Little loss for the huge benefit it'd provide.

12. Social Welfare programs help the poor.

No, just the opposite. Welfare programs lock the poor into poverty. AFDC led to the breakdown of Black society, and didn't help the poor of other races as well. There are many example of how The Great Society hurt the poor, but the subject is too long and difficult to outline here.

13. All slaves in the US suffered terribly.

Not so, while I'm not a proponent of slavery, it's true that only 3% of Blacks imported from Africa came to the US. Under slavery the Culture of Black Americans thrived. We see the results of this throught out America society today. Jazz and some forms of tap dancing are examples. And don't forget a third of all Blacks living in the Ante Bellum South were freed men and women. Jim Crowe hadn't come about yet and didn't until Reconstruction. And a great many Black Americans, both free and slave owned slaves themselves.

Again, I do not support slavery in any way. But slaves came out of slavery pretty well, and some/many lived pretty good lives in bondage.

14. Before the arrival of Europeans in the New World the Indians lived idealic, peaceful lives.

Nothing could be farther from the truth. Indian cultures were in a constant state of vicious warfare.

15. Whites in the US wanted to slaughter the Indians.

No we wanted to eduate Indians and keep them safe from other Indians. Least most of the time. It was the Indians who were slaughtering fellow Indinas and Whites that caused the settlers to demand that soldiers be brought to the West to protect them from marauding Indians.

16. We should not have dropped the nuclear bombs on Japan.

Far from true. We saved many millions of lives, both Japanese and American by dropping those two bombs and thereby winning and ending World War II.

17. FDR was a great president.

No so. The New Deal was universally considered a failure in 1937. Social Security is/was a disaster. FDR gave victory to the Soviets after WWII.

18. Viet Nam was a bad war.

Nope. If we would have won many millions of people would both be alive and more prosperous now that they were after our defeat.

19. We should only allow people to speak to us if we agree with them.

This belief that is popular among the Left is atrocious. All people, even those who are wrong have a right to be heard.

20. Christians are evil.

By in large Christians are good. Sure they have had some rough history, but they learned and they genuinely believe in the goodness of peace and love.

21. Gay people are predisposed to be that way.

I suppose this may be true in some instances. But for the most part gays are "that way" because they want to be.

22. Radical Muslims are not a threat to American security.

The opposite is true. Three thousand dead Americans can attest to this very rear fact.

23. If it feels good do it.

No, if it's the right thing to do for most people then do it. If that is, it conforms to our cultural beliefs.

24. We can stop Global Warming.

The climate of the Earth is always in a state of flux. We can do nothing, or very little to change this fact.

25. Americans are evil.

American has done more to spread wealth and prosperity over the face of the Globe than any other country in history.

26. Capitalism is bad.

No, socialism is bad. Capitalism provides more goods and services as well as contented successful citizens than does any other economic system. Capitalism happens by itself. It's not created. Adam Smith did not cause capitalism to happen he just observed and codified it.

27. The rich exploit the poor.

The rich people employ the poor, so that they too can become rich. There are more rich workers in this country than in any other society in history.

I'm going to stop here, but as you can probably tell I could go on and on. And truthfully these are my concepts and possibly not all conservatives will agree with me every time. I've said some pretty controversial things here. You may want to debate some of my statements, but it's no use, because I'm always right.

[sdbest]

Quote by: Deadeye Some one here posted a thread that stated that Conservatives are stupid.

I posted the thread about stupid people being Conservatives. And, you've admirably proved my--and John Stuart Mills'-point.

And now regarding #16.

16. We should not have dropped the nuclear bombs on Japan.

Far from true. We saved many millions of lives, both Japanese and American by dropping those two bombs and thereby winning and ending World War II.

Why did America have to drop two? Possibly, there was a rationale for Hiroshima. Nagasaki was a war crime.

As General Dwight D. Eisenhower wrote in his memoir, "In 1945 Secretary of War Stimson, visiting my headquarters in Germany, informed me that our government was preparing to drop an atomic bomb on Japan. I was one of those who felt that there were a number of cogent reasons to question the wisdom of such an act. During his recitation of the relevant facts, I had been conscious of a feeling of depression and so I voiced to him my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives."

If you have any particular one of your points you'd like me to show you the stupidity of, just ask.

Regards
S.

[Deadeye]

Quote by: sdbest I posted the thread about stupid people being Conservatives. And, you've admirably proved my--and John Stuart Mills'-point. And now regarding #16. 16. We should not have dropped the nuclear bombs on Japan. Far from true. We saved many millions of lives, both Japanese and American by dropping those two bombs and thereby winning and ending World War II. Why did America have to drop two? Possibly, there was a rationale for Hiroshima. Nagasaki was a war crime.

We dropped two bombs because the Japanese didn't respond to the first as we had hoped that they would. Many in the Japanese leadership thought that Hiroshima was simply another fire bomb attack as we had used to destroy Tokyo.

So we dropped another to get their attention. This time they figured it out and surrender came soon thereafter. BTW: we had a third. I don't think that's generally known.

Saying the dropping the second bomb is a war crime is pure bunk. We wanted the Japanese to understand that it was to their advantage to stop fighting right now. This saved American lives. Remember if we would have invaded millions of Japanese would have died and it's estimated one to 1.5 Americans would have died as well. This would have trippled the number of Americans killed in that war. Also it would have made an amiable peace much harder to achieve.

During August the Japanese should thank us for dropping those two bombs.

[Deadeye]

Quote by: sdbest I posted the thread about stupid people being Conservatives. And, you've admirably proved my--and John Stuart Mills'-point. And now regarding #16. 16. We should not have dropped the nuclear bombs on Japan. Far from true. We saved many millions of lives, both Japanese and American by dropping those two bombs and thereby winning and ending World War II. Why did America have to drop two? Possibly, there was a rationale for Hiroshima. Nagasaki was a war crime. As General Dwight D. Eisenhower wrote in his memoir, "In 1945 Secretary of War Stimson, visiting my headquarters in Germany, informed me that our government was preparing to drop an atomic bomb on Japan. I was one of those who felt that there were a number of cogent reasons to question the wisdom of such an act. During his recitation of the relevant facts, I had been conscious of a feeling of depression and so I voiced to him my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives." If you have any particular one of your points you'd like me to show you the stupidity of, just ask. Regards S.

IKE was a nice fella wasn't he. Fact is we had just finished a very bloody fight on Okinawa. The Japanese had no intention of surrending until after we dropped the two nukes.

I have talked to Japanese who were in Japan then. One told me that his teacher was teaching the kids how to hang themselves. They were told that the Marines ate children. Civilians were being armed. The Japanese were holding back their aircraft waiting for massive kamikaze attacks. I have toured the shortline gun emplacements set up in Japan. The Japanese were not planning to surrender and we were staging for our invasion, which would have been very bloody.

[yourwrong]

22. Radical Muslims are not a threat to American security.

No, Liberals do think radical muslims are dangerous just as a radical christian or almost anyone or anything radical. Liberals just protest the treatment of all muslims and people acting like their all terroists.

23. If it feels good do it.

not a conservative/liberal issue. Most people do whats good as opposed to whats right.

17. FDR was a great president

Conservatives like FDR just as much as liberals. Actually nearly everyone liked him. He's ranked around third or fourth usually when ranking the presidents.

Three Presidents—George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, and Franklin D. Roosevelt—are consistently ranked at the top of the lists. Usually ranked just below those three are Presidents Thomas Jefferson and Theodore Roosevelt. The remaining "top 10" ranks are often rounded out by Harry S. Truman, Dwight D. Eisenhower, John F. Kennedy, Woodrow Wilson, Andrew Jackson, and in recent polls, Ronald Reagan. Ranking at the bottom of most polls are Warren G. Harding, Franklin Pierce, and James Buchanan.

Historical rankings of United States Presidents - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

We tried to choose approximately equal numbers of scholars who lean to
the left and to the right. .....
As in prior studies, George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, and
Franklin Roosevelt continue to be the most esteemed presidents. Also
like other studies, Democratic presidents tend to be rated higher than
Republican presidents (though insignificantly so), both overall and since
1857.
http://falcon.arts.cornell.edu/Govt/...alRankings.pdf


24. Americans are evil

Why in the heck whould I think I'm evil? Also read your history we've done are fair share of bad things.

4. Mexicans are underpaid

illegal Mexicans are underpaid not legal mexicans usually when liberals are refering to Mexicans being underpaid their talking about illegal mexicans. Usually illegal mexicans don't even get minimum wage because their black mailed by the companies that hire them. An example would be: rich criminal : So you want a job? How does $3.50 an hour sound? illegal mexican: Sounds a little low. rich criminal: To bad that's what your going to get or I'll report you to the INS.

21. Gays are predisposed to be that way

Theirs plenty of proof they are. Now some may be gay by choice but several are probaly gay because of genetics.

20. Christians are evil

Most liberals are christians their just more tolerant of athiests.

27. The rich exploit the poor

They do thats why we have unions to make sure the rich treat the poor fairly.

26. Capitalism is bad

Again most liberals don't think capitalism is bad.

19. We should only allow people to speak to us if we agree with them.

No I would say say thats more of a conservative value. Look at how many times the catholic church has protested movies that go against it's message. Though I shouldn't stoop to your level of genelizations.

15. Whites in the US wanted to slaughter the Indians.

No we didn't want to slaughter them but we wanted their land and they wouldn't give it up so we killed a large portion of them.

7. Cubans are better off under Castro.

Where have you ever heard a liberal utter this?

8. Oh, he's trying so hard give him an "A".

Again what makes this a liberal attribute?

( I'm not a liberal but a moderate so please don't call me one)

[Jack]

During August the Japanese should thank us for dropping those two bombs.

Using that logic, shouldn't we be thankful for those who flew the planes in the World Trade Center for opening our eyes to the reality of terrorism, which prior to that we'd largely ignored as it only happened "over there" and didn't really concern us?

[sdbest]

Quote by: Deadeye We dropped two bombs because the Japanese didn't respond to the first as we had hoped that they would. So we dropped another to get their attention. .

Now here's a thought. You do know what those are? Before you post demonstrably foolish revisions of history, you might want to do at least a modicum of research. You might find "Hiroshima: Was It Necessary?" a useful read. You do read? Or are Limbaugh and O'Reilly your primary sources of "information"?

For the record, "IKE" was more than just a "nice fella". In his final address to the nation he warned us about the "military industrial complex". Tragically all his predictions have come true.

You'll no doubt allow me to give greater credence to his views about nuclear weapons and the abomination of Hiroshima and Nagasaki than yours.

And here's the ringer. Had the U.S. not dropped atomic bombs on an utterly defeated Japan, other countries, in particular the U.S.S.R., might not have proceeded with their own nuclear weapons programs.

Lastly, had the U.S. lost the war, its leaders would have been tried for war crimes--under international law--because of those bombs. It's what the U.S. would have done had the Germans dropped atomic bombs on Philadelphia and Boston, or Birmingham and Manchester.

But I suppose for someone who doesn't thing slavery was such a bad thing, unnecessarily incinerating innocent Japanese children and women is not such an horrific act.

Regards
S.

[Deadeye]

Quote by: yourwrong 22. Radical Muslims are not a threat to American security. No, Liberals do think radical muslims are dangerous just as a radical christian or almost anyone or anything radical. Liberals just protest the treatment of all muslims and people acting like their all terroists. 23. If it feels good do it. not a conservative/liberal issue. Most people do whats good as opposed to whats right. 17. FDR was a great president Conservatives like FDR just as much as liberals. Actually nearly everyone liked him. He's ranked around third or fourth usually when ranking the presidents. Three Presidents—George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, and Franklin D. Roosevelt—are consistently ranked at the top of the lists. Usually ranked just below those three are Presidents Thomas Jefferson and Theodore Roosevelt. The remaining "top 10" ranks are often rounded out by Harry S. Truman, Dwight D. Eisenhower, John F. Kennedy, Woodrow Wilson, Andrew Jackson, and in recent polls, Ronald Reagan. Ranking at the bottom of most polls are Warren G. Harding, Franklin Pierce, and James Buchanan. Historical rankings of United States Presidents - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia We tried to choose approximately equal numbers of scholars who lean to the left and to the right. ..... As in prior studies, George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, and Franklin Roosevelt continue to be the most esteemed presidents. Also like other studies, Democratic presidents tend to be rated higher than Republican presidents (though insignificantly so), both overall and since 1857. http://falcon.arts.cornell.edu/Govt/...alRankings.pdf 24. Americans are evil Why in the heck whould I think I'm evil? Also read your history we've done are fair share of bad things. 4. Mexicans are underpaid illegal Mexicans are underpaid not legal mexicans usually when liberals are refering to Mexicans being underpaid their talking about illegal mexicans. Usually illegal mexicans don't even get minimum wage because their black mailed by the companies that hire them. An example would be: rich criminal : So you want a job? How does $3.50 an hour sound? illegal mexican: Sounds a little low. rich criminal: To bad that's what your going to get or I'll report you to the INS. 21. Gays are predisposed to be that way Theirs plenty of proof they are. Now some may be gay by choice but several are probaly gay because of genetics. 20. Christians are evil Most liberals are christians their just more tolerant of athiests. 27. The rich exploit the poor They do thats why we have unions to make sure the rich treat the poor fairly. 26. Capitalism is bad Again most liberals don't think capitalism is bad. 19. We should only allow people to speak to us if we agree with them. No I would say say thats more of a conservative value. Look at how many times the catholic church has protested movies that go against it's message. Though I shouldn't stoop to your level of genelizations. 15. Whites in the US wanted to slaughter the Indians. No we didn't want to slaughter them but we wanted their land and they wouldn't give it up so we killed a large portion of them. 7. Cubans are better off under Castro. Where have you ever heard a liberal utter this? 8. Oh, he's trying so hard give him an "A". Again what makes this a liberal attribute? ( I'm not a liberal but a moderate so please don't call me one)

Naw, you are a liberal, you just don't want to admit it. But I'm sure that you are a nice fellow. I'll get back to your post later. I'm in the middle of a writing project.

But, no matter what "historians" say about FDR the New Deal was a huge failure, Social Security has been too, and he did give victory to the Soviets after WWII. Say what you will, but we would have better off with Wilke.

[yourwrong]

My point wasn't that he was a good president. My point is conservatives like him just as much as liberals as in the second study I posted. By the way I'm not a liberal I am against illegal aliens, believe global warming is more caused by other things other then pollution (though we should stop polluting as much because it causes other problems) , believe social welfare is a bad idea because a lot of the time it's people that don't deserve it that get the money, and am against abortions.

[Alive]

Deadeye,

Your post is interesting, not because anything you said was particularly insightful, but because of what you consider to be liberal and conservative viewpoints. These days, weirdly enough, the conservatives are the Democratic imperialists (in the grand tradition of Woodrow Wilson and Theodore Roosevelt) and the liberals are the isolationist protectionists (like, say, Hoover). We should remember that Vietnam and the Great Society were fought by the same president.

Both these groups are/were incredibly wrong, of course, and their opinions quite idiotic. Nevertheless it is interesting how things change.

[Deadeye]

Quote by: yourwrong My point wasn't that he was a good president. My point is conservatives like him just as much as liberals as in the second study I posted. By the way I'm not a liberal I am against illegal aliens, believe global warming is more caused by other things other then pollution (though we should stop polluting as much because it causes other problems) , believe social welfare is a bad idea because a lot of the time it's people that don't deserve it that get the money, and am against abortions.

I see. You are right. And I think that we can agree that labels stink. I probably overuse them...no I do overuse them. It's better if we discuss each topic on it's own and toss labels.

Thank you for your thoughtful, polite post.

[Deadeye]

Quote by: Alive Deadeye, We should remember that Vietnam and the Great Society were fought by the same president.

To a degree. I agree. Vietnam was more than started by LBJ it was also set up for loss by him. I believe that Viet Nam was a good war, one that needed to be fought. If we would have won things in that part of the world would be much better than they are today.

I'm very much opposed to large social engineering programs such as the New Deal and The Great Society. They are extremely expensive and terrible failures and the unintended consequences have been horrible. The distruction of the Black family for one.

I do not, however; understand the point that you are trying to make by mentioning that LBJ and the VN War were LBJ projects.

The larger question is: Since conservatives and liberals live together here, how can we learn to get along? What do we agree on? I'm not a fan of civil war, but I hear lots of people predicting one, usually liberals I think.

[grandpa]

Quote by: Deadeye I believe that Viet Nam was a good war, one that needed to be fought. If we would have won things in that part of the world would be much better than they are today.

Please elaborate on this. Why was it good?

Grandpa h.

[Deadeye]

Quote by: grandpa Please elaborate on this. Why was it good? Grandpa h.

Simple:

If we would have won that war the carnage caused by Pol Pot would not have come about. The standard of living in South Vietnam would be greater than it is today. The people in S. Vietnam would have a say in who rules them. They would become a rice exporter again.

All told the people living in South East Asia would be happier, wealthier an more contented than they are now.

So, you actually believe that they are happier living under a dictatorial, communist regime. Are you nuts?

[sdbest]

Quote by: Deadeye I'm very much opposed to large social engineering programs such as the New Deal and The Great Society. They are extremely expensive and terrible failures and the unintended consequences have been horrible. The distruction of the Black family for one.

As for the Great Society, "...from 1963 when Lyndon Johnson took office until 1970 as the impact of his Great Society programs were felt, the portion of Americans living below the poverty line dropped from 22.2 percent to 12.6 percent, the most dramatic decline over such a brief period in this century. ... The poverty rate for blacks fell from 55 percent in 1960 to 27 percent in 1968." Source.

As for the New Deal, "A 1995 survey of economic historians and economists asked "Taken as a whole, government policies of the New Deal served to lengthen and deepen the Great Depression." Of the economists 27% agreed and 51% disagreed. Of the economic historians, only 6% agreed and 74% disagreed. (the rest were in the partly agree/disagree group). [Source]

Now, perhaps you can support your assertions with some evidence that "... the New Deal and The Great Society. They are extremely expensive and terrible failures and the unintended consequences have been horrible. The distruction (sic) of the Black family for one."

I'm particularly interested in your unsupported "terrible failures" and "unintended consequences have been horrible" claims.

Regards
S.

[sdbest]

Quote by: Deadeye If we would have won that war the carnage caused by Pol Pot would not have come about.

This is the basis of your defense of the Vietnam war?

For all you know, the U.S. would have supported Pol Pot had it prevailed in Vietnam. At that time, the U.S. routinely supported brutal dictatorships--as it does today in Saudi Arabia, China, and Pakistan.

Why don't you provide some other "if" insights like, If Germany won WWII; If the French had not sided with the Americans in the War of Independence; If Christians followed Jesus's politics ...

It's difficult imagine a less convincing argument than an impossible hypothetical.

Regards
S.

[Deadeye]

Quote by: sdbest This is the basis of your defense of the Vietnam war? For all you know, the U.S. would have supported Pol Pot had it prevailed in Vietnam. At that time, the U.S. routinely supported brutal dictatorships--as it does today in Saudi Arabia, China, and Pakistan. Why don't you provide some other "if" insights like, If Germany won WWII; If the French had not sided with the Americans in the War of Independence; If Christians followed Jesus's politics ... It's difficult imagine a less convincing argument than an impossible hypothetical. Regards S.

Oh, I got it. You believe that people live better under a totalitarian, communist government, where only the members of government have anything of value, and their fellow crooks that is.

[Deadeye]

Quote by: sdbest This is the basis of your defense of the Vietnam war? For all you know, the U.S. would have supported Pol Pot had it prevailed in Vietnam. At that time, the U.S. routinely supported brutal dictatorships--as it does today in Saudi Arabia, China, and Pakistan. Regards S.

We would not have supported Pol Pot. We do not prop up the Saudi leadership, they are doing that on their own. I suppose you'd like that nation to be taken over by the radical Muslims? As for China we have nothing to do with their government either. We just trade with them. I guess that we believe that "keeping our enemy close" is a good plan.

So, lets see; if we adhere to your master plan, we've got to invade and annex China, and Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. I'll bet you wouldn't support that plan for a moment.

What I think that you support is the defeat of the Bush administration at any cost. I'm sure that you will applaud if we lose this war.

[sdbest]

Quote by: Deadeye Oh, I got it. You believe that people live better under a totalitarian, communist government, where only the members of government have anything of value, and their fellow crooks that is.

Another figment of your imagination is put forward as "fact." You must be (let me think, yes, yes, the word's coming to me) a Conservative.

Why would you make a claim about my beliefs that you must know to be completely untrue?

Regards
S.

[Deadeye]

Quote by: sdbest Another figment of your imagination is put forward as "fact." You must be (let me think, yes, yes, the word's coming to me) a Conservative. Why would you make a claim about my beliefs that you must know to be completely untrue? Regards S.

Isn't it about time for your 2 O'clock feeding?