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Thread: Reparations to the Descendants of Slaves

  1. #13
    Thread Killer Muckraker's Avatar
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    Quote Quote by: Scribbler1 View Post
    Off-topic? Okay, to the specific question posed.

    No.

    I've already stated my reasons.
    You didn't state any reasons for why you feel descendants of slaves are NOT owed any reparations.

    Your comments were primarily regarding who would pay reparations and how.

    The comment about all Americans reaping the benefits of slavery makes no sense and is definitely off topic unless you intend to flesh it out with some evidence. Especially if you are claiming that descendants of slaves are not owed anything because our debt to them has been paid in full by X, Y, and Z.

    I'm not sure you want to give the ground that there is, or ever was, a "debt" though because you would definitely lose the debate if you did that

  2. #14
    Skeptical Patriot Scribbler1's Avatar
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    Quote Quote by: Muckraker View Post
    You didn't state any reasons for why you feel descendants of slaves are NOT owed any reparations.
    Wrong. The FIRST thing I said was why I think that way.
    Quote Quote by: Scribbler1
    I have a fundamental disagreement with reparations because it requires people who do not, and never have owned slaves to pay for the past.
    I'm not sure you want to give the ground that there is, or ever was, a "debt" though because you would definitely lose the debate if you did that
    It is a debt owed BY the dead, TO the dead.

    And since that last quote already presupposes you have all the answers and you just want to validate your opinion, I see this thread is ALREADY close to the toilet.

    I see no reason to participate any further.

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    Thread Killer Muckraker's Avatar
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    Quote Quote by: Scribbler1 View Post
    Wrong. The FIRST thing I said was why I think that way.

    It is a debt owed BY the dead, TO the dead.

    And since that last quote already presupposes you have all the answers and you just want to validate your opinion, I see this thread is ALREADY close to the toilet.

    I see no reason to participate any further.
    In this thread we are debating the question posed, not the concept of reparations. The reason many threads veer off into forty pages of random thoughts is because people pick a random sentence and host dozens of mini debates or voicings of opinion that are off topic. I am merely trying to keep this on the topic of debating the question posed.

    I stand by the statement that your reason does not address the question. It addresses the concept. You said you disagree with reparations because we, the people, would have to "pay" the reparations. That provides no evidence that people are not owed reparations.

    Your most recent post does have a debatable line in it, though:

    "It is a debt owed BY the dead, TO the dead."

    To this I would reply that the United States is not dead and the debt has never been paid. In the event of a settlement, sum of money, or benefit of any kind being awarded to a deceased party, the closest descendants are awarded the settlement. Considering, in many cases, that the descendants of the deceased frequently continue to experience obstacles and difficulty resulting from whatever injustice is being settled, it is an apt practice for the law to work in this way.

    I in no way claimed that this was my opinion or that I had all the answers. This is just a debate. I merely pointed out that the opposing view admitting that there is, or was, a debt would severely hamper its ability to continue the debate. I apologize if this was not communicated in the first post. I thought this was a forum for debate and I assumed people would take stances different than their "fire a quick one off" opinions for the simple fun of debating.

  4. #16
    Dazed and Bruised Humble Servant's Avatar
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    No. First how do you prove someones ancestors were slaves? It's not like a lot of the people who were slaves could write down their history. Second all the people who are citizens today including blacks are offered the same opportunities. We all have a right to education, health care, and so on. Third if we do hand out reparations I want some! My ancestors were Scottish and Irish. They landed in Mass and NY and were treated like crap. A vast majority of them were for all intents and purposes slaves. Plus I really could use the money to buy the 2008 Camero that they had in the Transformers movie :)

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    Retired Mia's Avatar
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    The question of who would pay the reparations does not need to be discussed as it is not addressing the question.
    I disagree. The question of who owes is inherent in whether there is something owed.

    If I am to assert that something is due to me, I must have in mind who is responsible for providing it.

    Additionally, you intimate in you remarks that there are still people and companies alive today that benefited from slavery, implying that you think perhaps they should pay.

    Slave owners purchased the slaves legally at the time. Were they reimbursed by the government when their rightfully owned property was taken from them? To my knowledge, they were not. The slaves were also not returned to their former owners for refunds.

    What if that's what was offered to former slaves, who the US saw fit to free - how many would have accepted passage back to Africa, where they would have been sold again, instead of the option to live here as free people, able to begin the process (like all other immigrants) of starting from scratch, and building something for themselves instead of whining for people to provide for them?

    Are blacks also seeking reparations from fellow blacks in other nations, who sold them in the first place? Are white people who came here as indentured servants seeking reparation?

    As you might be able to tell, this question really pisses me off. It's not enough that the US decided that slavery was wrong, freed the people, and allowed them to live here as citizens and integrate.....so many people all over the world would kill for that chance.....descendants are supposed to pay for something that was legal at the time, and done all over the world.
    "...with like-minded people one cannot discuss. With like-minded people one can only participate in a church service, and you know how I feel about church services." Ayaan Hirsi Ali

  6. #18
    Reasonably insane yourwrong's Avatar
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    Quote Quote by: yourwrong View Post
    1. African Americans benifit from the companys that have benifited from slavery because a richer company means a bigger company, a bigger company means a company with more people, a company with more people means that their are probably more african americans that have jobs who wouldn't had the company not benifited from slavery.

    2. Nothing now prohibits blacks to pass down their wealth and this country gives ample opportunity to get wealthy.

    3. How is money or objects going to make the african americans feel anybetter at how the government used to treat them? If I beat the crap out of you then after that gave you money, Would you forgive me? Also don't you think once we give reperations poor african americans are only going to want more.

    4. I'm sure most african americans are glad this country still exists otherwise their would be none left in this country or their would only be african americans that are too poor to leave.
    Quote Quote by: Muckraker View Post
    1. Not relevant to the topic. Almost all companies require a work force and the opportunities at a company with roots from that time period are no different than the opportunities from modern companies.

    2. Agreed. The argument is not that blacks are unable to pass opportunity down to their ancestors now. It is that many are still feeling negative effects of their ancestors being unable to pass opportunity down to them. The negative effects, in many cases, will also be felt by future generations, regardless of the now "equal" ability to pass opportunity on.

    3. Off topic. The reparations have not been identified as being money or objects. I don't see how "forgiveness" plays a role. I also don't see many people turning down a new opportunity if it is offered.

    4. Off topic. Not sure what you mean or where you were going with it either.
    1. Yeah it is relevant decendents of slaves have gained because of slavery too. Because of all the racism some companies did in this past to better their reputation they hire a lot of blacks.

    2. I'm going to use my original British example now although religion is a choice the puritans were still prosecuted for it which basically forced then to come to America where they had nearly nothing. Though of course they gained wealth fast and was soon challenging Britains economy. So again should the British government pay us reparations? Of course not had they not mistreated us we would of never founded America and we are now just as rich as Britain. Just like had slavery not been implemented most blacks would not be here they would probably be in Africa where in most places it isn't to pleasant and I'm guessing blacks will catch up with whites as far as money and education in the future.

    3. What else would reperations be? An apology. White people and the govenment have already apologize several times and critize and/or punish anybody that makes an even slightly racist comment such as Don Imus getting kicked of his radio show.

    4. Their glad their here in America. It's not like they hate it. Why should we pay them reperations? They have more opportunitys here in America then in Africa. Plus all the slave owners are dead and all though not all the south was punished some of the major confederate leaders were punished.
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    Your argument is hingent on the view that all citizens are entitled to an enheritance. Nothing in the constitution, or our legal system concurs with this.

    Sure, enheritance defaults to the closest living relative - it doesn't follow that the closest living relative is entitled to it.

  8. #20
    Principled Observer Osborn F Enready's Avatar
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    I agree Kameha, as well as totally with what Scribbler said.

    I can't debate a topic like this which pre-supposes something totally unjustified.
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    Volcanic Erupter Cephus's Avatar
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    No way in hell.

    No one alive today has ever been a slave. No one alive today has ever KNOWN a slave. No one alive today's parents or grandparents were ever slaves.

    So where the hell do they get off with their hands out because someone, somewhere, was a slave once?

    What kind of utter liberal stupidity is that?
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

  10. #22
    Igneous Magma freedom13's Avatar
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    Slavery Reparations: Money to Descendants of Slaves?

    he issue of reparations for slavery has become a widely publicized topic in the past few years. This issue has been brought up mainly because of the reparations which were paid to the Jewish people after World War II, rights given to the Native Americans and the payments which were recently made to the Japanese-Americans for their wrongful imprisonment. In response to these events, several black leaders and reparation activists have purposed that descendants of slaves should also be rewarded monetary compensations for their ancestor’s hardships. They believe these hardships have set back the African American race in America, and reparations are long past due to correct these injustices. However, the questions that arise are primarily if the black race has actually been set back by slavery, and secondly how the descendants of these former slaves can be found and validated, and lastly where the funds for these large compensations will come from.Webster’s defines reparations as “…the act of making amends, offering expiation, or giving satisfaction for a wrong or injury…” It is odd that this definition is somehow interpreted as monetary compensation by so many individuals (Webster). An example of those who interpret reparations this way are most advocates for slavery compensation. The New York Metro Area chapter of the N’COBRA (National Coalition of Blacks for Reparations in America) has made claims which state slavery has directly affected the current status of African Americans in the Harlem area. They claim the reason for the predominantly black neighborhood in this deprived area is due to the effects of slavery. Ajamu Sankofa one of N’COBRA’s attorney’s said, “The systematic structure of Black living conditions today began in slavery.” He went on to say, “Everybody knows that wealth is not created by having a job, it’s created by having land and housing and being able to pass these on from generation to generation. Black people had neither of these.” (Carillo 5). Mr. Sankofa made a valid point in claiming the structure of black living conditions today began in slavery; however what Mr. Sankofa fails to realize is blacks are now allowed to work and remove themselves from these conditions. Slavery may have put blacks at a lower level however; once slavery was abolished blacks had the freedom to leave these degrading levels. There were Jim Crow laws which tried to suppress them still, however even these concealed practices are now scarce. Mr. Sankofa’s statement on wealth not coming from a job was quite inaccurate. Wealth can be inherited; however it is quite plausible for an individual to gain it themselves. Countless minorities come over from various countries and are able to succeed in the United States. America has been given the nickname “land of opportunity” for a good reason. It is because it is possible to be successful in America without having a lot to start with.

  11. #23
    Resigned Matt W's Avatar
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    Source?
    I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered.

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  12. #24
    Igneous Magma freedom13's Avatar
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    Quote Quote by: Matt W View Post
    Source?
    Slavery Reparations: Money to Descendants of Slaves?
    Slavery Reparations: Money to Descendants of Slaves? - Associated Content
    Often times these reparations were meager in the case of Japanese-Americans. Jews have been awarded compensation for the losses they endured during the Holocaust. Lastly, the Native-Americans have been given rights which allow them to regain some of the wealth they cannot normally obtain on their reservations. However, the common theme with these awarded reparations is that the individuals were either mistreated on a first hand basis, they were very easy to track, or they had records of their relationship to those who were victimized. Most individuals who advocate slavery reparations have no such evidence. This is one of the major reasons why reparations have been denied to African Americans. Not because it is not acknowledged that slavery was an atrocious crime to society, but because too much time has passed to find its specific descendants.This fact is one that those who side with reparations choose to ignore. It an unarguable fact that slavery was an egregious institution which made blacks endure horrible conditions, however many African Americans have come into the United States after slavery was abolished. There have been interracial marriages which skew where the line should be drawn for reparations. There are countless other factors which make it extraordinarily hard for reparations to be awarded to the correct group of people.However, even if this large problem of finding the appropriate group to award the compensation was ignored there is a much larger problem. The vast amounts of money these claims have requested are unrealistic for the government to afford. Several possible solutions which have been suggested would ironically impose hardships on other groups of people. Since the government could not accommodate this expense, they would have to instate a tax to collect revenue for it.

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