If it started right now... today.... who would win?

[Century 25]

Praxius, Attention all Canadians:
Bush and Calderon to Visit Canada: Canadians Completely Unaware of Looming North American Union

Bush and Calderon to Visit Canada: Canadians Completely Unaware of Looming North American Union

An excerpt from article:

"In just over a month’s time, on August 20, the most powerful president in the world will be arriving in Montebello, Quebec for a two-day conference. President George W. Bush will be meeting with Stephen Harper and their Mexican counterpart, Felipe Calderon. So far, the silence from the Canadian and American media has been deafening. Talk to 90% of people on the street and they won’t know about this upcoming conference, and if by a slim chance they do, they won’t know the purpose of the meeting or why the leaders of Canada, United States and Mexico are meeting in the dog days of summer under what amounts to a veil of secrecy. So, what’s this upcoming conference all about, and why are the newspapers, radio and television keeping silent about it? The purpose of the upcoming conference is to ratify the Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America, which was initiated by Bush, Martin and Fox in 2005 in Waco, Texas. Essentially, this so-called ‘partnership’ will result in what the politicians refer to as ‘continental integration’-newspeak for a North American Union- and basically a harmonization of 100’s of regulations, policies and laws. In layman’s terms, it means that once this ‘partnership’ has been ratified which is a fait accompli; we will be following in the footsteps of the European Union. It will mean that Canada will become part of the North American Union by 2010, and that our resources, agricultural, health and environment issues, to name a few, will be controlled not by Canada, but by the government of the North American Union. A huge ‘NAFTA’ highway, one quarter of a mile wide, is already being built in Texas, where private land is being expropriated, and will eventually reach the Manitoba border."

This is reality. Wake up.

Praxius.. as an aside, my sweetie is from Winnipeg.. my father was born in Ontario.. I have relatives there also.. so I get the outside world's perspective from many sources.. I don't waste time watching the fables projected upon us by our corporate owned media.. As it happens, we are going up to visit her relatives in August.. maybe we can observe how this NAFTA pow-wow is reported by the Winnipeg paper.. here is the online link: The Winnipeg Free Press Online Edition

Glad to see people are still pushing this ridiculous conspiracy theory...

Conspiracy..?? duh.. :confused: Naw.. reality.. :eek:

[LadiesMan217]

Praxius we outnumber you and we have better weaponry than you and your perception of the American populus is so far off base it isnt even funny and your irrelevant history lesson of Canadian involvement in WWII is quite baffling. I can't even comprehend why you would bring it up when we have so many more military accomplishments in that war that yours pale in comparison. Even if your country invaded with our "forces stretched so thin" there is no doubt that we would reinstitute the draft and this time the draft dodgers would have no where to go cuz we both know they sure as hell are not going to go to Mexico, not even the Mexicans want to be there. And you can be damn well sure that when they did put the draft into effect that there would be a completely different attitude then that of 60's because of the fact that we would be fighting to protect our own homeland rather then some war halfway across the world for no reason. I would say that it even be very likely that the draft would not even be necessary due to massive and immediate volunteering into the army if such an attack on our country happened. I don't doubt that you guys have well-trained soldiers and blah-blah-blah, but against the United States Military? Get real man.

[tivodan1116]

Quote by: Century 25 This is reality. Wake up.

This is bullshit pushed by anti-government wackos.

The "article" you cite is not sourced. It is not unbiased. It has no basis in reality. It is one person's posting, submitted to a "news" site where people can post anything.

The SPP is merely a working group to streamline relations between the three countries and work together on policies that standardize things like border crossings and other security measures. Above anything else it is a communications group - streamlining communications between the three countries on things like possible terrorist activity, other criminal activity crossing borders, infectious disease outbreaks, and other possible problems that might affect more than one of the three countries.

All of this SPP/NWO nonsense is being predicated without any ACTUAL evidence. If you'd like to start a thread by posting some actual EVIDENCE, like legal citations, quotes from government leaders, treaties, or anything else, go for it. Invite me to it. Otherwise, it's just unfounded ranting by tin-foil hat loonies.

[SoylentGreen]

.

tivodan1116 I would say that it even be very likely that the draft would not even be necessary due to massive and immediate volunteering into the army if such an attack on our country happened. I don't doubt that you guys have well-trained soldiers and blah-blah-blah, but against the United States Military? Get real man.

Divide and conquer

If canada offered the southern states independence from the northern states something most southern rebels would desire then america would be fighting on two fronts.
The mormons of utah would probably agree to join in on canada's side if offered independence and religious freedom, so a fight on three fronts.
And the strong french influence of the louisiana states could probably be convinced to side for canada if the french came into the fight, so four fronts.
DIVIDE AND CONQUER

[tivodan1116]

Quote by: SoylentGreen . Divide and conquer If canada offered the southern states independence from the northern states something most southern rebels would desire then america would be fighting on two fronts. The mormons of utah would probably agree to join in on canada's side if offered independence and religious freedom, so a fight on three fronts. And the strong french influence of the louisiana states could probably be convinced to side for canada if the french came into the fight, so four fronts. DIVIDE AND CONQUER

By the way, that was ladiesman217 you quoted, not me.

But your post is ridiculous nonetheless.

[SoylentGreen]

tivodan1116 But your post is ridiculous nonetheless.

Sorry about misquoting

But why ridiculous , do you believe the US is non divisible.
I have heard at times the call of the rebel to break away from the north.
And the mormons are a strong influence in utah, given an opportunity to practice there religion in the way they want, wouldn't they be tempted.
And the french louisians have I believe always remained very independent from main stream america.
If canada was considering an invasion these would be likely allies.

[tivodan1116]

Quote by: SoylentGreen Sorry about misquoting But why ridiculous , do you believe the US is non divisible. I have heard at times the call of the rebel to break away from the north. And the mormons are a strong influence in utah, given an opportunity to practice there religion in the way they want, wouldn't they be tempted. And the french louisians have I believe always remained very independent from main stream america. If canada was considering an invasion these would be likely allies.

We don't have to look far to see that you're wrong on this. September 11th - Two attacks, one in New York - the most hated city in the country to Southern "rebels", and one in Washington, D.C., the most hated city to anyone who doesn't like the United States the way it is.

Did those attacks result in an outpouring of sympathy from Southerners, Mormons, and Cajuns?

Beside the fact that
1) Southerners are some of the most "patriotic" Americans, if measured by the number of "these colors don't run" and "USA #1" type of jingoistic items they own.
2) The Civil War was 150 years ago.
3) Mormons already DO get to practice their religion the way they want to. How do they not???
4) "French" Louisianans identify themselves as Americans or Cajuns, not French.

Which brings me to a crucial point - you mistake dissent for separatism. Americans can disagree on many things but the groups you pointed out all identify themselves as Americans first and foremost and have all, for at least the last century, given themselves for the defense of the country when called.

[Praxius]

Quote by: ladiesman217 Praxius we outnumber you and we have better weaponry than you

Um..... our technology is equal.... what you think we still hunt with bows or something and travel by log down the river?

and your perception of the American populus is so far off base it isnt even funny

Is it now? why thank you for that solid proof :rolleyes:

and your irrelevant history lesson of Canadian involvement in WWII is quite baffling.

You've been stuck inside Call of Duty and Day of Defeat too much it would seem.... I think this mentality you all have where you guys were the ones who won WWII is pretty ignorant, considdering you guys would have failed misserably alone..... also the fact that you guys only joined when you were finally attacked, and that you joined right at the same time as British and Canadian troops were begining the push back (Kind shows what we see today, thinking for only yourselves).... once you guys joined in, plans for D-Day came about..... and yet somehow you guys want to take the credit? Give me a break.... like your tin can Shermans were the brink of US technology.... pssh.

I can't even comprehend why you would bring it up when we have so many more military accomplishments in that war that yours pale in comparison.

I'm sorry, we're you including your failures into those equations as well? And the big difference is the techniques, the basis of each battle, what were the principles..... thus far, all the wars you guys fought in were only for your best interests, plain and simple...... it doesn't seem like something one would want to brag about.

I guess the fact that during and after WWII, Canada WAS the 4th largest military power in the world, under you guys and the Soviets..... to even bother to trivialize is kinda silly in apperance, nor does it help prove your side of the argument.... it just shows you haven't bothered to look up any other history other then your own.

Even if your country invaded with our "forces stretched so thin" there is no doubt that we would reinstitute the draft and this time the draft dodgers would have no where to go cuz we both know they sure as hell are not going to go to Mexico, not even the Mexicans want to be there. And you can be damn well sure that when they did put the draft into effect that there would be a completely different attitude then that of 60's because of the fact that we would be fighting to protect our own homeland rather then some war halfway across the world for no reason. I would say that it even be very likely that the draft would not even be necessary due to massive and immediate volunteering into the army if such an attack on our country happened. I don't doubt that you guys have well-trained soldiers and blah-blah-blah, but against the United States Military? Get real man.

I am real... .the funny thing is you are jumping to conclusions about how we would invade, or at least what I have planned in my head..... and an invasion doesn't actually mean taking over the country, renaming it, or even trying to impose our laws and morals onto your people...... this invasion I am talking about would be geared more directly to occupation and taking over of the corrupt government system that is currently in place that is a fake mockery of what democracy is.....

If I was in charge, the only thing I would have planned, is to push in, take out such a screwed up government power sustem that you guys have now, reinstate what your country once was about, give back the rights you once had, allow you guys to finally have a fair election with a variety of political figures you guys would want to vote for and then leave...... ie: democracy.

I personally have no interest or desire to take your guy's lands or to impose control on you.... I'd much rather remove the tyrants in power down there and give you back your country..... sorta like the original excuse Bush had for Iraq.... but this time it would be true and towards the right people who deserve it.....

In a sense this thread relates to the insurection thread on how some want to plan a revolution aginst the government, but from a Canadian point of view. Canada doesn't have a history in creating invasions, nor do most of us have any real desire to expand our borders or control another part of the world. We're the kind who just go in, straighten crap out, make sure everybody's somewhat happy and move out.

I honestly don't believe there is one Canadian that wants to really bother with the US, myself included..... but during your possible insurection and revolt, if you asked for military assistance against the government, or we offored and it was accepted, it technically would be an invasion..... to a degree.... depending on what side of this revolution you are on.

I apologize, perhaps I should have clarified my stance on this thread better then I did. The original topic was supposed to be a friendly theoretical bounce back between sides see tactics, etc..... like a war game so to speak (Which our countries do quite often together)

Perhaps invasion was the wrong word, lol....

[SoylentGreen]

Your plan doesn't go far enough Praxius if you only give them a new government it will quickly devolve back in to the same mess it is now.
America has to be broken up from the superpower it is now in to smaller less dangerous countries.
Give the french back the land they sold. Give Utah its independence and allow the south to break from the north.
They can still work together much as canada now works with the USA but as a smaller countries they then would no longer be a threat to the world.

[Praxius]

BTW: with the Prime Minister's most recent anouncement of a few billion dollars being put into our military.... everyone is saying this is the largest funding pushed towards our military since the 2nd WW.

In my personal opinion.... in the early 90's and 80's... I'd agree.... our military sucked hard core..... as of Today.... I would say our military is moderate..... but after this anouncement of the amount of money he plans on throwing into our military, the amount of LAV's, UAV's, helicopters, upgrades in our ships, frigates, aircraft etc.... after this is all said and done, I would have to say we'd be like owning a brand new car, to your 98' model..... this is where I kinda got the idea of this debate, so to speak.

[Praxius]

Quote by: SoylentGreen Your plan doesn't go far enough Praxius if you only give them a new government it will quickly devolve back in to the same mess it is now. America has to be broken up from the superpower it is now in to smaller less dangerous countries. Give the french back the land they sold. Give Utah its independence and allow the south to break from the north. They can still work together much as canada now works with the USA but as a smaller countries they then would no longer be a threat to the world.

Hmmmm... makes sense.... but I wasn't mainly gearing towards a threat to the world.... merely a threat to your own people first off..... of course removing this government would help benifit us as well, since we wouldn't have to watch you guys as close as we do (Many here are a tad paranoid.... when are we gonna be next on the attack block with this insane regiem?)

Myself, I would only want to be there as an independant 3rd party to make sure one side didn't start to screw over the other, like what's going on now..... I know many in the US probably wouldn't want to loose their power status, nor would they want their country broken up, esspecially after so much propaganda towards homeland terrorism.... if you guys became smaller, the fear of this would probably increase, and that wouldn't help much.

As I have been following your news and talking with my uncle and a few others down there, as the system stands now, you guys stand hardly any chance of making any difference or major changes to your country, so long as Hitler's nephew was still in power (This new law where he can reject anybody taking over who risk the stabalization of Iraq is beyond any proof that he doesn't understand what Democracy is)

I would just want to see you guys back to the way you used to be in the 80's or early 90's...... or anytime before Bush.... anytime before Bush was better then now. Yeah, the proud American chants, and Gun-ho made in America stuff used to get to me a lot..... but I'd rather take you guys boasting about yourselfs and actually being right, then you guys still boasting about yourselves and being a farce.

[SoylentGreen]

I think if the country was broken up they would be perceived as less of a threat even to the terrorists. It would probably make America a safer place for it's citizens. Plus they would be more likely to achieve a better form of democracy by being smaller.
Remember in Germany after the WW! they left the country as it was and in 30 years another war broke out. So after the second war they broke the country up giving half to the russians.
Unless Canada wants to be a constant third party forever the only solution is to break the country up and remove the threat to world peace.

[Praxius]

Hmm.... to me, I'm open to any ideas that would help better our neighbors qulity of life. What is good for our neighbors is good for us as I see it.

I wonder if a Parlamentary Democracy would work for you guys, where there would be more representation per State in the government, there would be more parties to vote from, and allow more control over your poloticians.

I'm not saying our government is perfect, lol.... but we do have more control over our poloticians.... where if they screw us over, we can call for an election anytime, instead of actually being forced to wait out 4 years or more and hope for the best.

[tivodan1116]

Quote by: Praxius Um..... our technology is equal.... what you think we still hunt with bows or something and travel by log down the river?

Technology equal? Maybe close, if I'm being generous.

You've been stuck inside Call of Duty and Day of Defeat too much it would seem.... I think this mentality you all have where you guys were the ones who won WWII is pretty ignorant, considdering you guys would have failed misserably alone..... also the fact that you guys only joined when you were finally attacked, and that you joined right at the same time as British and Canadian troops were begining the push back (Kind shows what we see today, thinking for only yourselves).... once you guys joined in, plans for D-Day came about..... and yet somehow you guys want to take the credit? Give me a break.... like your tin can Shermans were the brink of US technology.... pssh.

The title of this thread is

Quote by: Title of the damn thread If it started right now... today.... who would win?

I don't know about you, Mr. Thread Starter, but to me, that implies a discussion of the situation right now... today... not 60 years ago.

But hey, good luck against our "Shermans" when you come rushing across... I hear the M1A2 might be just a slight upgrade you might want to check into before doing your tactical assessment... :rolleyes:

I guess the fact that during and after WWII, Canada WAS the 4th largest military power in the world, under you guys and the Soviets..... to even bother to trivialize is kinda silly in apperance, nor does it help prove your side of the argument.... it just shows you haven't bothered to look up any other history other then your own.

Again - thread title. And the fact of the matter is that "right now... today..." the Canadian military is pretty damn trivial.

I am real... .the funny thing is you are jumping to conclusions about how we would invade, or at least what I have planned in my head..... and an invasion doesn't actually mean taking over the country, renaming it, or even trying to impose our laws and morals onto your people...... this invasion I am talking about would be geared more directly to occupation and taking over of the corrupt government system that is currently in place that is a fake mockery of what democracy is.....

Oh, working from the inside? Well, considering Americans have been completely unsuccessful, what makes you think Canadians will fare any better?

If I was in charge, the only thing I would have planned, is to push in, take out such a screwed up government power sustem that you guys have now, reinstate what your country once was about, give back the rights you once had, allow you guys to finally have a fair election with a variety of political figures you guys would want to vote for and then leave...... ie: democracy.

Yay - Hopefully it would be every bit the rousing success that the war in Iraq has been in its attempt to do the exact same thing with a country 1/20th the size and 10x the military might trying to do it... Good luck, bro. :rolleyes:

Quote by: Praxius BTW: with the Prime Minister's most recent anouncement of a few billion dollars being put into our military....

You realize the economies of scale/orders of magnitude at play here, right? The U.S. military pissed away "a few billion dollars" in the time it took you to read this... :rolleyes:

[GHook93]

Prax always with the Canadian Pride.

Haven't you seen Southpark, we would woop you Hoosers within hours. It wouldn't even be a contest!

[Praxius]

Quote by: GHook93 Prax always with the Canadian Pride. Haven't you seen Southpark, we would woop you Hoosers within hours. It wouldn't even be a contest!

Are you serious? We got Saddam didn't you hear.... but hey.... Relax Guy.... we don't want to invade you



Hey guy, you didn't think I really died did you? I got Satan watching my back... so to speak.....

[LadiesMan217]

You've been stuck inside Call of Duty and Day of Defeat too much it would seem.... I think this mentality you all have where you guys were the ones who won WWII is pretty ignorant, considdering you guys would have failed misserably alone..... also the fact that you guys only joined when you were finally attacked, and that you joined right at the same time as British and Canadian troops were begining the push back (Kind shows what we see today, thinking for only yourselves).... once you guys joined in, plans for D-Day came about..... and yet somehow you guys want to take the credit? Give me a break.... like your tin can Shermans were the brink of US technology.... pssh.

We were never attacked by Germany pal and don't act like we didn't support the Allies before Pearl Harbor; we built tanks and weapons for them, so much so that it brought us out of the Great Depression. And I don't understand your point about us fighting wars for our best interests because that is the only reason any country would go to war anyway and it is also invalid because we have fought wars before for no other benefit then helping out an oppressed people (i.e. Vietnam). What the hell has Canada ever done that is so great and noble? You need to get off your high horse and point your finger somewhere else for a change. I don't know if you have ever heard of a Canadian named Gordon Sinclair but you should really read his speech titled "The Americans" maybe then you lighten up on your campaign against us evil Americans. I would provide the speech for but I am new and I don't know how to post a link in my response.

I also find it ironic that you would employ the same strategy that is being used in Iraq considering how well it is working over there. We have played the insurgent game before and won and we will do it again if we had to.

But you can just cancel your war to free us from "the tyrants in power" because we have a little thing called term limits. Thanks anyway though.

[Praxius]

Quote by: ladiesman217 We were never attacked by Germany pal and don't act like we didn't support the Allies before Pearl Harbor; we built tanks and weapons for them, so much so that it brought us out of the Great Depression.

Of course... see... you gave them 2nd rate tanks which didn't hold up to the Panzers too well for your own profit and binifit..... and then you got attacks and then you figured it was in your best interest now to fight.

And I don't understand your point about us fighting wars for our best interests because that is the only reason any country would go to war anyway and it is also invalid because we have fought wars before for no other benefit then helping out an oppressed people (i.e. Vietnam).

Oh PA-Leaasssee!!! Helping oppressed people in Vietnam? now you're trying to play a card out of my hand, and using a poor example to back it up? Everything would have been fine there if you guys didn't fabricate the whole start of the ward and then invade,

What the hell has Canada ever done that is so great and noble? You need to get off your high horse and point your finger somewhere else for a change.

Canadian Forces - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Here check out operations for starters... get some education. Perhaps if you actually listened or pulled your head out of your country's arse and looked at what has happened in other countries in the world, and who was there to help them in their time of need, you might see that we were there most of the time.

The Canadian Forces or its component regiments have served operationally in the War of 1812, the Fenian Raids (1866-1871), North-West Rebellion (1885), the Second Boer War (1899-1902), the First World War, the Second World War, the Korean War, the First Gulf War, the Kosovo war (1999), and have contributed to UN and other peacekeeping missions and undeclared wars, notably the Suez Crisis, Golan Heights, Cyprus, Croatia, Bosnia, and Afghanistan. Canada is a charter member of NATO and a member of the North American Air Defence treaty (NORAD). Battles which are particularly notable to the Canadian military include the Battle of Vimy Ridge in the First World War and, in the Second World War, the Dieppe Raid, the Battle of Ortona, the Normandy Landings, the Battle for Caen, the Battle of the Scheldt, the Battle of Britain, the Battle of the Atlantic, and the strategic bombing of German cities. The Canadian forces operated under overall British command in all these battles. At the end of the Second World War, areas of the Netherlands north of the rivers Rhine and Lek were liberated from the Nazi-German occupying forces almost solely by Canadian formations. After restoring law and order they left the countries within several months. Since 1947, the CF has participated in more than 200 operations worldwide and has completed 72 international operations.[citation needed] More than 3,000 Canadian soldiers, sailors and Air Force personnel are deployed overseas on operational missions in 11 additional operations including the International Security Assistance Force in Afghanistan and the NATO stabilization force (SFOR) in Bosnia-Herzegovina. On any given day, about 8,000 Canadian Forces members - one third of the deployable force - are preparing for, engaged in or returning from an overseas mission. Canadian regular and reserve troops are a visible and respected force at home as well. In 2001 alone, the Canadian Forces responded to more than 8,000 search-and-rescue incidents and helped to save more than 4,500 lives.

Ignorance sucks doesn't it?

I also find it ironic that you would employ the same strategy that is being used in Iraq considering how well it is working over there. We have played the insurgent game before and won and we will do it again if we had to.

Employ the same tactic in a different enviroment, yes... it would work..... but also it doesn't help when your military and those leading it are ignorant of the people and their country..... that's the begining of the hatred right there.

[LadiesMan217]

Oh PA-Leaasssee!!! Helping oppressed people in Vietnam? now you're trying to play a card out of my hand, and using a poor example to back it up? Everything would have been fine there if you guys didn't fabricate the whole start of the ward and then invade

Why did we go to Vietnam Praxius then? For the oil? Interpret history however you want to boost your own Canadian ego which is so over-inflated as it is that a pillow could pop it.

Employ the same tactic in a different enviroment, yes... it would work..... but also it doesn't help when your military and those leading it are ignorant of the people and their country..... that's the begining of the hatred right there.

And where does your hatred begin Praxius? because every generalization you have made about the American citizens has very very ignorant. Did you google Gordon Sinclair's speech Praxius because I would really like to hear your feedback on it.

[christibe]

Eh you all with your flapping heads would be no contest....


But why wouldn't you just wait 2-3 years until you guys are richer than us?......... as in, we no longer have any money so we got some from China, duh. It's kinda them I'd be worried aboot.



and no, duh, we don't think you travel down river by canoe no more. You ride sleds pulled by dogs and in the 1 month a year your little "country" isn't covered in snow, you ride horses while wearing funny hats. Eh?