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Evios · Oct 16, 2003, 03:35 pm

Ahh yes indeed, time for the second amendment.

Lets review:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

With that in mind, do you believe people have the right to carry a concealed (and in some states in the open) a handgun with them at all times?

I will start off by saying that I indeed am for the right to carry. Infact, I do. Recently certain states and leg. are trying to put even more bans and restrictions on handguns... not only for the normal person, but for law enforcement officers as well. Limiting the types of guns and what a gun must or must not have is infringing on our second amend. rights!

I do however believe that some restrictions need to be placed, full auto guns arn't necessary for anyone to carry except peace keepers. The Brady bill, and Clinton bills are rediculous, and hopefully Clinton bill will sunset in 04!

RebelWithanAK · Oct 16, 2003, 03:51 pm

So, you contradict yourself (there should be no restrictions, except for maybe SMGs, assault rifles, and the really big hardware), and you also fail to identify whom the people are defending against. I thought "A Well Regulated Militia" was hint enough, but no... somebody wants everyone to carry a Smith & Wesson to do grocery shopping. Pretty soon I won't be able to head on the subway without it looking like a bad day in Beirut. Do I really need a glock to survive my morning commute? Seriously, now; where do you draw the line?

fedfem · Oct 16, 2003, 05:31 pm

I definitely want the militias regulated! That said, with the current regime in the US, I am reconsidering my position of carrying weapons. I look forward to the arguments presented here.

**Sean** · Oct 16, 2003, 06:35 pm

Yes, this can be a great issue, but we must avoid that downward spiral that most of these types of topics fall into. Provide evidence when you state things from reputable sites, make sure you separate your opinions from "facts", and avoid pointless personal attacks.

That said, I might have to participate if this gets good. I have some opinions of my own on the matter.

Evios · Oct 16, 2003, 08:32 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (RebelWithanAK,)
So, you contradict yourself (there should be no restrictions, except for maybe SMGs, assault rifles, and the really big hardware), and you also fail to identify whom the people are defending against. I thought "A Well Regulated Militia" was hint enough, but no... somebody wants everyone to carry a Smith & Wesson to do grocery shopping. Pretty soon I won't be able to head on the subway without it looking like a bad day in Beirut. Do I really need a glock to survive my morning commute? Seriously, now; where do you draw the line?<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

I do contradict myself, and it's a hard issue that I debate in my head quite a bit. I hear/read about IMO the gov oversteping the lines and infringing on our rights. But I also understand some of the regulations. And no, I don't think it's necessary for the ordinary citizen to need a full auto anything. I do believe though that they should be for rent on ranges. I'm sure they are fun to fire, and they interest a lot of gun enthusiasts.

As for you heading to the subway w/o it looking like a bad day in Beirut, if they are caring legally, then this shouldn't be a problem. Most states don't allow open carry, and I doubt many will, but concealed you wouldn't even know who had a gun and who didn't.

I should hope no one ever needs a glock to survive a commute, or for any reason. Do you really think your going to have to start running around with your gun shooting at people to 'survive'? No, it will never get to that extreme.

RebelWithanAK · Oct 17, 2003, 01:13 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Evios,)
As for you heading to the subway w/o it looking like a bad day in Beirut, if they are caring legally, then this shouldn't be a problem. Most states don't allow open carry, and I doubt many will, but concealed you wouldn't even know who had a gun and who didn't.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>
Carrying a gun usually makes procuring one and firing it a lot easier. I don't want to ride the subway with the knowledge that any one of my fellow commuters is packing heat. That'll probably make me more likely to fire mine. It's like that Republican plea following Columbine to arm teachers against students. That won't stop school shootings, it'll compound it. Hence, "bad day in Beirut." Thankfully, this ain't Beirut nor Bosnia so I guess I don't need my AK today.

That said, there is only one circumstance I can see for anybody in this country to be carrying any form of weaponry (and the heavy stuff does apply in this case): ". . . whenever any government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute a new government, laying its foundations on such principles and organizing its powers in such forms as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness."

Section 8 · Oct 17, 2003, 02:06 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
That said, there is only one circumstance I can see for anybody in this country to be carrying any form of weaponry (and the heavy stuff does apply in this case): ". . . whenever any government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute a new government, laying its foundations on such principles and organizing its powers in such forms as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness."<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

I agree on this point indefinently. Even the constituion and the declaration of independence back me up on this one. A revolution is like a militia, Dave with 9mm in the taxi isn't.

Evios · Oct 17, 2003, 03:02 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (RebelWithanAK,)
... I don't want to ride the subway with the knowledge that any one of my fellow commuters is packing heat. That'll probably make me more likely to fire mine... <hr size="1" /></blockquote>
Get your gun cocked and ready then, chances are atleast one person riding with you is. Because someone has a gun, is carring legally, and is just going about their normal day, your more likely to fire yours? I'd think the contraditory, because if some crazy comes on board and starts threatening or attacking people, I'd like my gun and the guy next to me pointing guns at the crazy.

Also while your worried about your fellow commuter packing, your doing the same, being that exact commuter your looking out for... while you pack for protection, they are too, are you above them with your right to carry?

I think you could have come up with a more suiting analogy then arming teachers will compound the problem ... obviously, teachers work with children (high school included) who are still learning (and in most cases courts are blind when it comes to them - ie juvi 'centers', etc..) how to function in society and what's right and wrong. So yes, a teenager will probably take a gun, increase the shootings in schools... bad argument, we already know guns/immaturity (mostly in the cases of children) don't mix, lets not add to it. But because one more person is issued their CCW doesn't mean we are compounding the problems.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Second Amendment)
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>
It doesn't flow... it's split, A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the secuirty of a free State, and the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

It's implyed, you really don't think so?

RebelWithanAK · Oct 17, 2003, 03:53 am

No, I really don't think so.

So you're willing to let the general populace fashion itself with all manner of small arms to defend against... "crazys"? When was the last time you came up against a "crazy"? Do you encounter them often in your stretch of the woods? Just running at ya yelling and hollering and waving pistols of various calibres? I've gone 20 years of my life and never once have I come up to a point where I was face to face with a "crazy", and I live in a red-lined neighborhood. Haven't you heard of "police"? In fact, I think you're paranoid. I think you let fear guide you. I think you see Travis Bickles around every corner, just waiting for the opportunity to blow you away. I think you're just the kind of person we need to keep guns away from. How d'you like that, huh?

Impenitent · Oct 17, 2003, 09:20 am

an armed society is a polite society...

ever been to switzerland?

mandate that everyone carry machine guns...

bazookas too... afterall, the bigger the better...

G. Adams · Oct 17, 2003, 10:07 am

I will argue this later when I have more time, but will someone help this poor foreigner and explain the damned abbreviations in the title of this thread?

Impenitent · Oct 17, 2003, 10:33 am

conceal carry?

I didn't miss the point... side arms in holsters... machine guns over shoulders... bazookas neatly tucked into your overcoat...

why conceal it? it just makes it that much harder to use...

if you got it, flaunt it...

RebelWithanAK · Oct 17, 2003, 11:38 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Impenitent)
an armed society is a polite society...<hr size="1" /></blockquote>
Of course; after all, look at Lebanon. Or Bosnia.

G. Adams · Oct 17, 2003, 12:21 pm

IMO, the government has no right to infringe upon the 2nd amendment's (or in my case the UK's Bill of Rights during the 1600 that was the forerunner to your bill of rights, except we claused ours so much it doesn't exist anymore) ability to fulfill its duty. That is, in the event of a government turning against its people, the ability to reply by overthrowing it. This means gun ownership must remain legal.

However, that does not mean there should not be regulation. I would argue that all gun owners must be licensed for that particular type of weapon (handgun, rifle, sniper rifle (any rifle that can accurately achieve 1000m for detail, and others I can't think of now), and pre-requisite to that license would be six months of training on a range with that type of weapon, plus basic safety and maintenance of weapons classes. I'd also prefer weapons to be stored in an armory, just one of those heavy metal cages the size of a filing cabinet would do, with a good lock on it, but I'm not sure whether that should quite be law.

I don't approve of people carrying them on their body in the streets, concealed or not. In transport to ranges or hunting areas they should be in a case, or at least kept in a vehicle untill at the destination

RebelWithanAK · Oct 17, 2003, 01:05 pm

I can't say I agree with you entirely - especially with the ownership part - but mandatory safety classes and armories under lock and key are sound ideas...

Evios · Oct 17, 2003, 01:08 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (RebelWithanAK,)
I think you're just the kind of person we need to keep guns away from. How d'you like that, huh?<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

Your welcome to think what you want, you think I'm the type of person who you need to keep guns away from... because I enjoy shooting? I never said I enjoy shooting people, infact I hope I never have to. But I would, if ever in a situation where I would have to, like that option... hence why I carry.

Don't begin to tell me that your '20 years of experience', most of which was spent at disneyland and school that you have a true look at life and how society operates, you don't.

And to answer your question, yes I do see people running around the streets, mostly unarmed, some with a weapon of some sorts. I venture into Seattle quite a bit, big cities attract things like this, I'd like to be safe.

The police are great, unfortunatly for all cities across the country, budgets don't allow there to be a cop on every corner...

You can attack me all you want, I'll just laugh at you. I respect your opinions, though you are incorrect in your judgement of me as a person.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (G. Adams)
will someone help this poor foreigner and explain the damned abbreviations in the title of this thread?<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

CCW: Concealed Carry Weapon
CPL: Concealed Pistol License
CHL: Concealed Handgun License

Just different abbr. w/in different states.

RebelWithanAK · Oct 17, 2003, 01:59 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Evios,)
Don't begin to tell me that your '20 years of experience', most of which was spent at disneyland and school that you have a true look at life and how society operates, you don't.

And to answer your question, yes I do see people running around the streets, mostly unarmed, some with a weapon of some sorts. I venture into Seattle quite a bit, big cities attract things like this, I'd like to be safe.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>
Oh, Evie, Evie, Evie, Evios. Where do I begin? I feel it's my duty to remind you that it is I, not you, who is currently living in a red-lined slum in New York City, who attended overcrowded public schools (Where many classes had upwards of 39 students, and half my graduating class didn't) and suffered two muggings, a potential break-in and two blackouts (You ever sit in your darkened apartment clutching a baseball bat?); and that it is you, not I, who lives comfortably in the suburbs of the Pacific Northwest and who -your words- "venture(s) into Seattle quite a bit." Seattle ain't exactly a bad town by anyone's standards. Maybe a bit wet, but last I checked there weren't all that many "crazys" running about, waving guns and accosting people. Even if you are the caffeine capital of the country.

Perhaps you were asking me to show you around my habitat in Inwood - with the Projects two blocks to the east with the recent serial murder case where a character shot and chopped up old women in the building in order to strip and rent out their apartments. Or shall I talk about the drug dealings in the park my building borders, or the bulletproof windows in the bank, the post office, the bodega? Where everybody in my building knows the locksmith's son is a known burglar and drug dealer.

Or shall I talk about where I used to live, in Washington Heights - a police training ground, where there are not one but four cops on every corner - with the drug traffic that comes streaming across the bridge in order to fund and feed the New Jerseyan suburbanite E-heads. Or where I go buy food now, in Fordham, a lovely place killed by a man named Moses in the 40's and has been one of the worst crime areas in the city until about 10 years ago. Good Dominican food, though. Or when I lived in Flushing, Queens, where the Wendy's closed down one day when two assailants bagged all the employees up and shot them in the head?

You don't tell ME my 20 years of experience mean less than your suburban splendor, you fucking prick. I know what guns can do, and I don't want them anywhere near me.

G. Adams · Oct 17, 2003, 03:01 pm

At least it stops kids just taking them off the mantlepiece and shooting themselves accidentally.

G. Adams · Oct 17, 2003, 03:10 pm

That one above should have been with a quote from rebel earlier.

And I personally love shooting. I've been on air pistols and rifles, L90 .56 Cadet GP rifle (which I might add I am a sweet shot with up to 300m, I've got a range card somewhere with 10 rounds in an inch at 100m, and that just with battle sights, plus was done on a rapid succession test, meaning 3 secs max between shots), the SA80 (which is a lot easier to clean than they would have you believe), GPMG's and best of all an L96A1. Thats your AWP to any CS players.

But all of these weapons, except the air weapons, were not mine, kept on a range and required me to be part of the Army Cadet Force. And that required me to do a years worth of training with air weapons and that GP rifle before I got onto the bigger stuff. All of which is a good thing.

Evios · Oct 17, 2003, 04:30 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (RebelWithanAK)
Perhaps you were asking me to show you around my habitat in Inwood - with the Projects two blocks to the east with the recent serial murder case where a character shot and chopped up old women in the building in order to strip and rent out their apartments. Or shall I talk about the drug dealings in the park my building borders, or the bulletproof windows in the bank, the post office, the bodega? Where everybody in my building knows the locksmith's son is a known burglar and drug dealer.

...

You don't tell ME my 20 years of experience mean less than your suburban splendor, you fucking prick. I know what guns can do, and I don't want them anywhere near me.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

BOOOHOOO, I'm crying for you. You think you live in the only place where drug deals happen, where bulletproof windows are in quite a few establishments. Your gravely mistaken. Downtalk me as much as you want, your the one looking stupid. Break-ins happen here, murders do too, quit your bitching... lifes hard, if you don't like it, and need to clutch your bat to feel safe, MOVE. There is crime everywhere, and your attempt at telling me I don't know what guns do, hah, because you know I come from a 'suburban splendor' of an existance right? Oh wait, but you don't.

Your days cant be that hard on you, or you would have gotten yourself out of the situation by now. And let me cry some more for you about the drug trafficing happening where you used to live... oh hey, drugs flow in here too, thanks.

--

If you want to start a name calling match, well this fuckn' prick will own you quite severly, so don't start. This is exactly where Sean didn't want it to go. But please, if you feel it necessary to bash me, go right ahead, see where it gets you.

Oct 16, 2003, 03:35 pm	#1 (permalink) (top)
Evios Sedimentary Rock Posts: 12	Ahh yes indeed, time for the second amendment. Lets review: </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> With that in mind, do you believe people have the right to carry a concealed (and in some states in the open) a handgun with them at all times? I will start off by saying that I indeed am for the right to carry. Infact, I do. Recently certain states and leg. are trying to put even more bans and restrictions on handguns... not only for the normal person, but for law enforcement officers as well. Limiting the types of guns and what a gun must or must not have is infringing on our second amend. rights! I do however believe that some restrictions need to be placed, full auto guns arn't necessary for anyone to carry except peace keepers. The Brady bill, and Clinton bills are rediculous, and hopefully Clinton bill will sunset in 04!

Oct 16, 2003, 03:51 pm	#2 (permalink) (top)
RebelWithanAK Igneous Magma Location: New York City Posts: 739	So, you contradict yourself (there should be no restrictions, except for maybe SMGs, assault rifles, and the really big hardware), and you also fail to identify whom the people are defending against. I thought "A Well Regulated Militia" was hint enough, but no... somebody wants everyone to carry a Smith & Wesson to do grocery shopping. Pretty soon I won't be able to head on the subway without it looking like a bad day in Beirut. Do I really need a glock to survive my morning commute? Seriously, now; where do you draw the line? . . . whenever any government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute a new government, laying its foundations on such principles and organizing its powers in such forms as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.

Oct 16, 2003, 06:35 pm	#4 (permalink) (top)
Sean former overlord Location: New York Posts: 2,383	Yes, this can be a great issue, but we must avoid that downward spiral that most of these types of topics fall into. Provide evidence when you state things from reputable sites, make sure you separate your opinions from "facts", and avoid pointless personal attacks. That said, I might have to participate if this gets good. I have some opinions of my own on the matter. So it goes

Oct 16, 2003, 08:32 pm	#5 (permalink) (top)
Evios Sedimentary Rock Posts: 12	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (RebelWithanAK,) So, you contradict yourself (there should be no restrictions, except for maybe SMGs, assault rifles, and the really big hardware), and you also fail to identify whom the people are defending against. I thought "A Well Regulated Militia" was hint enough, but no... somebody wants everyone to carry a Smith & Wesson to do grocery shopping. Pretty soon I won't be able to head on the subway without it looking like a bad day in Beirut. Do I really need a glock to survive my morning commute? Seriously, now; where do you draw the line?<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> I do contradict myself, and it's a hard issue that I debate in my head quite a bit. I hear/read about IMO the gov oversteping the lines and infringing on our rights. But I also understand some of the regulations. And no, I don't think it's necessary for the ordinary citizen to need a full auto anything. I do believe though that they should be for rent on ranges. I'm sure they are fun to fire, and they interest a lot of gun enthusiasts. As for you heading to the subway w/o it looking like a bad day in Beirut, if they are caring legally, then this shouldn't be a problem. Most states don't allow open carry, and I doubt many will, but concealed you wouldn't even know who had a gun and who didn't. I should hope no one ever needs a glock to survive a commute, or for any reason. Do you really think your going to have to start running around with your gun shooting at people to 'survive'? No, it will never get to that extreme.

Oct 17, 2003, 01:13 am	#6 (permalink) (top)
RebelWithanAK Igneous Magma Location: New York City Posts: 739	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Evios,) As for you heading to the subway w/o it looking like a bad day in Beirut, if they are caring legally, then this shouldn't be a problem. Most states don't allow open carry, and I doubt many will, but concealed you wouldn't even know who had a gun and who didn't.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Carrying a gun usually makes procuring one and firing it a lot easier. I don't want to ride the subway with the knowledge that any one of my fellow commuters is packing heat. That'll probably make me more likely to fire mine. It's like that Republican plea following Columbine to arm teachers against students. That won't stop school shootings, it'll compound it. Hence, "bad day in Beirut." Thankfully, this ain't Beirut nor Bosnia so I guess I don't need my AK today. That said, there is only one circumstance I can see for anybody in this country to be carrying any form of weaponry (and the heavy stuff does apply in this case): ". . . whenever any government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute a new government, laying its foundations on such principles and organizing its powers in such forms as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness." . . . whenever any government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute a new government, laying its foundations on such principles and organizing its powers in such forms as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.

Oct 16, 2003, 05:31 pm	#3 (permalink) (top)
fedfem Igneous Magma Location: Northeastern, USA Posts: 606	I definitely want the militias regulated! That said, with the current regime in the US, I am reconsidering my position of carrying weapons. I look forward to the arguments presented here.

Oct 17, 2003, 02:06 am	#7 (permalink) (top)
Section 8 Hot Lava Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 782	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by That said, there is only one circumstance I can see for anybody in this country to be carrying any form of weaponry (and the heavy stuff does apply in this case): ". . . whenever any government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute a new government, laying its foundations on such principles and organizing its powers in such forms as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness."<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> I agree on this point indefinently. Even the constituion and the declaration of independence back me up on this one. A revolution is like a militia, Dave with 9mm in the taxi isn't.

Oct 17, 2003, 03:02 am	#8 (permalink) (top)
Evios Sedimentary Rock Posts: 12	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (RebelWithanAK,) ... I don't want to ride the subway with the knowledge that any one of my fellow commuters is packing heat. That'll probably make me more likely to fire mine... <hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Get your gun cocked and ready then, chances are atleast one person riding with you is. Because someone has a gun, is carring legally, and is just going about their normal day, your more likely to fire yours? I'd think the contraditory, because if some crazy comes on board and starts threatening or attacking people, I'd like my gun and the guy next to me pointing guns at the crazy. Also while your worried about your fellow commuter packing, your doing the same, being that exact commuter your looking out for... while you pack for protection, they are too, are you above them with your right to carry? I think you could have come up with a more suiting analogy then arming teachers will compound the problem ... obviously, teachers work with children (high school included) who are still learning (and in most cases courts are blind when it comes to them - ie juvi 'centers', etc..) how to function in society and what's right and wrong. So yes, a teenager will probably take a gun, increase the shootings in schools... bad argument, we already know guns/immaturity (mostly in the cases of children) don't mix, lets not add to it. But because one more person is issued their CCW doesn't mean we are compounding the problems. </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Second Amendment) A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> It doesn't flow... it's split, A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the secuirty of a free State, and the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. It's implyed, you really don't think so?

Oct 17, 2003, 03:53 am	#9 (permalink) (top)
RebelWithanAK Igneous Magma Location: New York City Posts: 739	No, I really don't think so. So you're willing to let the general populace fashion itself with all manner of small arms to defend against... "crazys"? When was the last time you came up against a "crazy"? Do you encounter them often in your stretch of the woods? Just running at ya yelling and hollering and waving pistols of various calibres? I've gone 20 years of my life and never once have I come up to a point where I was face to face with a "crazy", and I live in a red-lined neighborhood. Haven't you heard of "police"? In fact, I think you're paranoid. I think you let fear guide you. I think you see Travis Bickles around every corner, just waiting for the opportunity to blow you away. I think you're just the kind of person we need to keep guns away from. How d'you like that, huh? . . . whenever any government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute a new government, laying its foundations on such principles and organizing its powers in such forms as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.

Oct 17, 2003, 09:20 am	#10 (permalink) (top)
Impenitent Hot Lava Posts: 1,859	an armed society is a polite society... ever been to switzerland? mandate that everyone carry machine guns... bazookas too... afterall, the bigger the better... "I really like this jacket, but the sleeves are much too long..." insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results...

Oct 17, 2003, 10:07 am	#11 (permalink) (top)
G. Adams Fyrdman Location: Middlesbrough UK Posts: 4,152	I will argue this later when I have more time, but will someone help this poor foreigner and explain the damned abbreviations in the title of this thread? Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Winston Churchill

Oct 17, 2003, 10:33 am	#12 (permalink) (top)
Impenitent Hot Lava Posts: 1,859	conceal carry? I didn't miss the point... side arms in holsters... machine guns over shoulders... bazookas neatly tucked into your overcoat... why conceal it? it just makes it that much harder to use... if you got it, flaunt it... "I really like this jacket, but the sleeves are much too long..." insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results...

Oct 17, 2003, 11:38 am	#13 (permalink) (top)
RebelWithanAK Igneous Magma Location: New York City Posts: 739	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Impenitent) an armed society is a polite society...<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Of course; after all, look at Lebanon. Or Bosnia. . . . whenever any government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute a new government, laying its foundations on such principles and organizing its powers in such forms as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.

Oct 17, 2003, 12:21 pm	#14 (permalink) (top)
G. Adams Fyrdman Location: Middlesbrough UK Posts: 4,152	IMO, the government has no right to infringe upon the 2nd amendment's (or in my case the UK's Bill of Rights during the 1600 that was the forerunner to your bill of rights, except we claused ours so much it doesn't exist anymore) ability to fulfill its duty. That is, in the event of a government turning against its people, the ability to reply by overthrowing it. This means gun ownership must remain legal. However, that does not mean there should not be regulation. I would argue that all gun owners must be licensed for that particular type of weapon (handgun, rifle, sniper rifle (any rifle that can accurately achieve 1000m for detail, and others I can't think of now), and pre-requisite to that license would be six months of training on a range with that type of weapon, plus basic safety and maintenance of weapons classes. I'd also prefer weapons to be stored in an armory, just one of those heavy metal cages the size of a filing cabinet would do, with a good lock on it, but I'm not sure whether that should quite be law. I don't approve of people carrying them on their body in the streets, concealed or not. In transport to ranges or hunting areas they should be in a case, or at least kept in a vehicle untill at the destination Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Winston Churchill

Oct 17, 2003, 01:05 pm	#15 (permalink) (top)
RebelWithanAK Igneous Magma Location: New York City Posts: 739	I can't say I agree with you entirely - especially with the ownership part - but mandatory safety classes and armories under lock and key are sound ideas... . . . whenever any government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute a new government, laying its foundations on such principles and organizing its powers in such forms as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.

Oct 17, 2003, 01:08 pm	#16 (permalink) (top)
Evios Sedimentary Rock Posts: 12	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (RebelWithanAK,) I think you're just the kind of person we need to keep guns away* from. How d'you like that, huh?<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Your welcome to think what you want, you think I'm the type of person who you need to keep guns away from... because I enjoy shooting? I never said I enjoy shooting people, infact I hope I never have to. But I would, if ever in a situation where I would have to, like that option... hence why I carry. Don't begin to tell me that your '20 years of experience', most of which was spent at disneyland and school that you have a true look at life and how society operates, you don't. And to answer your question, yes I do see people running around the streets, mostly unarmed, some with a weapon of some sorts. I venture into Seattle quite a bit, big cities attract things like this, I'd like to be safe. The police are great, unfortunatly for all cities across the country, budgets don't allow there to be a cop on every corner... You can attack me all you want, I'll just laugh at you. I respect your opinions, though you are incorrect in your judgement of me as a person. </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (G. Adams)* will someone help this poor foreigner and explain the damned abbreviations in the title of this thread?<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> CCW: Concealed Carry Weapon CPL: Concealed Pistol License CHL: Concealed Handgun License Just different abbr. w/in different states.

Oct 17, 2003, 01:59 pm	#17 (permalink) (top)
RebelWithanAK Igneous Magma Location: New York City Posts: 739	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Evios,) Don't begin to tell me that your '20 years of experience', most of which was spent at disneyland and school that you have a true look at life and how society operates, you don't. And to answer your question, yes I do see people running around the streets, mostly unarmed, some with a weapon of some sorts. I venture into Seattle quite a bit, big cities attract things like this, I'd like to be safe.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Oh, Evie, Evie, Evie, Evios. Where do I begin? I feel it's my duty to remind you that it is I, not you, who is currently living in a red-lined slum in New York City, who attended overcrowded public schools (Where many classes had upwards of 39 students, and half my graduating class didn't) and suffered two muggings, a potential break-in and two blackouts (You ever sit in your darkened apartment clutching a baseball bat?); and that it is you, not I, who lives comfortably in the suburbs of the Pacific Northwest and who -your words- "venture(s) into Seattle quite a bit." Seattle ain't exactly a bad town by anyone's standards. Maybe a bit wet, but last I checked there weren't all that many "crazys" running about, waving guns and accosting people. Even if you are the caffeine capital of the country. Perhaps you were asking me to show you around my habitat in Inwood - with the Projects two blocks to the east with the recent serial murder case where a character shot and chopped up old women in the building in order to strip and rent out their apartments. Or shall I talk about the drug dealings in the park my building borders, or the bulletproof windows in the bank, the post office, the bodega? Where everybody in my building knows the locksmith's son is a known burglar and drug dealer. Or shall I talk about where I used to live, in Washington Heights - a police training ground, where there are not one but four cops on every corner - with the drug traffic that comes streaming across the bridge in order to fund and feed the New Jerseyan suburbanite E-heads. Or where I go buy food now, in Fordham, a lovely place killed by a man named Moses in the 40's and has been one of the worst crime areas in the city until about 10 years ago. Good Dominican food, though. Or when I lived in Flushing, Queens, where the Wendy's closed down one day when two assailants bagged all the employees up and shot them in the head? You don't tell ME my 20 years of experience mean less than your suburban splendor, you fucking prick. I know what guns can do, and I don't want them anywhere near me. . . . whenever any government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute a new government, laying its foundations on such principles and organizing its powers in such forms as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.

Oct 17, 2003, 03:01 pm	#18 (permalink) (top)
G. Adams Fyrdman Location: Middlesbrough UK Posts: 4,152	At least it stops kids just taking them off the mantlepiece and shooting themselves accidentally. Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Winston Churchill

Oct 17, 2003, 03:10 pm	#19 (permalink) (top)
G. Adams Fyrdman Location: Middlesbrough UK Posts: 4,152	That one above should have been with a quote from rebel earlier. And I personally love shooting. I've been on air pistols and rifles, L90 .56 Cadet GP rifle (which I might add I am a sweet shot with up to 300m, I've got a range card somewhere with 10 rounds in an inch at 100m, and that just with battle sights, plus was done on a rapid succession test, meaning 3 secs max between shots), the SA80 (which is a lot easier to clean than they would have you believe), GPMG's and best of all an L96A1. Thats your AWP to any CS players. But all of these weapons, except the air weapons, were not mine, kept on a range and required me to be part of the Army Cadet Force. And that required me to do a years worth of training with air weapons and that GP rifle before I got onto the bigger stuff. All of which is a good thing. Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Winston Churchill

Oct 17, 2003, 04:30 pm	#20 (permalink) (top)
Evios Sedimentary Rock Posts: 12	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (RebelWithanAK) Perhaps you were asking me to show you around my habitat in Inwood - with the Projects two blocks to the east with the recent serial murder case where a character shot and chopped up old women in the building in order to strip and rent out their apartments. Or shall I talk about the drug dealings in the park my building borders, or the bulletproof windows in the bank, the post office, the bodega? Where everybody in my building knows the locksmith's son is a known burglar and drug dealer. ... You don't tell ME my 20 years of experience mean less than your suburban splendor, you fucking prick. I know what guns can do, and I don't want them anywhere near me.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> BOOOHOOO, I'm crying for you. You think you live in the only place where drug deals happen, where bulletproof windows are in quite a few establishments. Your gravely mistaken. Downtalk me as much as you want, your the one looking stupid. Break-ins happen here, murders do too, quit your bitching... lifes hard, if you don't like it, and need to clutch your bat to feel safe, MOVE. There is crime everywhere, and your attempt at telling me I don't know what guns do, hah, because you know I come from a 'suburban splendor' of an existance right? Oh wait, but you don't. Your days cant be that hard on you, or you would have gotten yourself out of the situation by now. And let me cry some more for you about the drug trafficing happening where you used to live... oh hey, drugs flow in here too, thanks. -- If you want to start a name calling match, well this fuckn' prick will own you quite severly, so don't start. This is exactly where Sean didn't want it to go. But please, if you feel it necessary to bash me, go right ahead, see where it gets you.