Canadian man fears he'll never leave Guantanamo Bay:

[Praxius]

Nova Scotia News - TheChronicleHerald.ca

TORONTO (CP) _ Omar Khadr's Canadian lawyers say the 20-year-old detainee is ``wasting away'' in the U.S. prison at Guantanamo Bay. They say that after five years of incarceration, Khadr has lost hope of ever being released and fears he could die in prison. In an e-mail to the Toronto Star, Edmonton lawyer Dennis Edney said Khadr urgently needs independent medical and psychological testing. Edney said Khadr ``never sees the light of day,'' gets no exercise and feels the world doesn't care if torture is used at the Cuban detention facility. Khadr, who is to appear before a military commission next month, has been held by U.S. authorities since he was 15. He is charged with murder in the death of an American soldier at the end of a July, 2002 attack on suspected al-Qaida members in Afghanistan. Edney said he spent three hours with Khadr on Thursday and described him as having a ``sense of innocence and dignity.''

I remember watching a Documentary/Movie called "Road to Guantanamo" which followed a couple of just recently released prisoners from there and the treatment they recieved. It's not only inhumane, violates human rights, they see no evidence holding them there, and they won't be let go until they confess to the charges they have been accused of........

What the hell ever happened to innocent until proven guilty? Whatever happened to representation? Whatever happened to seeking the truth, not imprisoning someone just to put the blame on someone?

[Brunhilde]

This is a hot topic in Australia at the moment, as our second Guantanamo detainee has just arrived back in the country. The first was freed a couple of years ago, released without charges after more than three years in custody.

The current model is David Hicks, who was (finally) tried and pleaded guilty to "providing material support to terrorism". The cynical opined that he (maybe falsly) pleaded guilty as the best way of getting out of Guantanamo. Court officials huffily protested that in that case, he was committing perjury and that was a very very serious offense. Come on!

We have heard very little of the actual evidence against Hicks here in Australia. There is little doubt he was involved with Al-Quaida, but it seems to have been in a fairly peripheral way. The overall impression is of a gung-ho young idiot who wanted to play Rambo and got in way over his head, rather than a committed fundamentalist terrorist. Nevertheless, he was certainly mixing with some very unsavoury people.

The issues which have disturbed the Australian public are;

1. Did his actions (reprehensible as they were) actually violate any civil, military or international laws which were in place at the time he was arrested/captured? All charges seem to have been based on laws enacted retrospectively. The fact that he is not a citizen of either Afghanistan or the United States, further complicates matters.

2. Why was he held for five years without charge, under a system which has been declared unconstitutional and illegal by the highest legal authorities of the United States of America? Very few people in Australia have any confidence in the legitimacy of his trial process. Most regard his guilty plea as the price he paid to get out of Guantanamo, rather than a true indication of his motives or actions.

I am horrified to learn there is a Guantanamo detainee who was under-age at the time of his incarceration. What will become of anyone who has spent a quarter of his life under such circumstances?

[Praxius]

The cynical opined that he (maybe falsly) pleaded guilty as the best way of getting out of Guantanamo. Court officials huffily protested that in that case, he was committing perjury and that was a very very serious offense. Come on!

Indeed.... they talk about Perjury.... where the hell is the Perjury for the people doing the accusations with no evidence or fair trial? How the hell do they get away with BS like this?

I am horrified to learn there is a Guantanamo detainee who was under-age at the time of his incarceration. What will become of anyone who has spent a quarter of his life under such circumstances?

With any luck they'll get through it..... but jesus.... that sure isn't right....

They should have sent anybody under age.... at the very least.... back to their countries to face trial there....

People bitch about throwing youths in adult jails... well wtf is this?

[improvident]

Thats actually crazy.. i personally didnt know there was anyone other than afgahns in Guantanamo.. im no on the hour every hour news viewer.. but when i occasionally sit in front of a tv i usually watch 15-20 min. of each major station.. and i hardly EVER hear anything about Guantanamo bay...if people where to hear that prisoners are basically kept there on no evidence and with no trial.. and arent released until they admit guilt.. its hard to tell what all would happen.. perhaps a few government changes?

[Praxius]

Update:



Khadr could be detained even if acquitted by military court

WASHINGTON - Canadian Omar Khadr faces the possibility of indefinite imprisonment at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, even if he is acquitted of murder and terrorism charges at his war crimes trial later this year, a senior U.S. State Department official said Tuesday. The revelation comes just days before Khadr's scheduled Monday arraignment at the American military base, and as his Canadian lawyers gird for a courtroom battle over the detainee's request to fire his U.S. attorneys. John Bellinger, the legal adviser to Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, said the U.S. military could keep Khadr behind bars if he is found not guilty because it has already determined he is an 'unlawful enemy combatant' not subject to the same rights as a prisoner of war. Although there is a "certain expectation that someone might be released" if found not guilty, the U.S. claims it would have the right under international law to keep Khadr detained until the end of the ongoing war with al-Qaida - a military conflict that could continue for decades. "As a matter of law, we believe we may continue to hold someone even if they are acquitted," Bellinger told a group of Canadian reporters. The detainees at Guantanamo "continue to be held because they are combatants and they would return to acts of combat," he said, "and we think, as a matter of international law, one can hold them until the end of that conflict." Khadr, 20, has been detained at the Guantanamo Bay prison camp since late 2002 after being captured following a battle with American soldiers near Khost, Afghanistan, in July of that year. He was classified as an "enemy combatant" in 2004 following a combatant status review tribunal, in which the military officers reviewed a series of allegations and evidence against him. Khadr, who was 15 at the time of his capture, was charged with murder in April for allegedly throwing a grenade that killed army Sgt. Christopher Speer. He faces additional charges of attempted murder for other actions during the same July 27, 2002, firefight, of spying on U.S. troops for al-Qaida, and of planting roadside bombs. Despite the U.S.'s legal position on detaining enemy combatants, Bellinger said it was nonetheless "premature" to speculate how the U.S. would respond if Khadr is actually acquitted. He confirmed the Canadian government has not entered any negotiations to have Khadr returned to Canada to serve a prison sentence upon a possible conviction. Khadr's case has been embroiled in controversy from the beginning, largely because he was a juvenile at the time of the alleged terrorist acts and disputes over his legal representation. Khadr has repeatedly sought to fire his assigned U.S. military attorney, Lt.-Col. Colby Vokey, and U.S. civilian attorneys working on his behalf in American civilian courts. Khadr's Canadian lawyer, Edmonton-based Dennis Edney, was allowed to meet with him for the first time only last week at Guantanamo Bay, but can only act as a "foreign attorney consultant" during the upcoming war crimes tribunal. In an interview Tuesday, Edney said he and Khadr's U.S. lawyers plan to contest tribunal rules barring foreigners from acting as lead attorneys in the case. Under military commission rules, Edney could be seated at the defence table to consult with Khadr, but would not be allowed to address the military judge. The rules also allow Khadr to waive his right to military counsel and represent himself, although the military lawyer would be required to be present to advise him. Bellinger argued the rules are in place for a good reason - because U.S. military attorneys know military law and are best qualified to represent Khadr in a war crimes trial. "We have bent over backwards to provide the most robust legal representation that any accused can have," Bellinger said. "I think the world can see (the military lawyers) have been extremely zealously representing their clients." U.S. officials also denied Edney's claims that Khadr was being held in inhumane conditions at Camp Six, a new maximum-security facility for Guantanamo detainees that was opened last December. Khadr was "chained to the floor in a concrete room," complained of suffering blurred vision, nose and ear irritation and arthritis in his legs, Edney said after his visit to Guantanamo. "Mr. Khadr looked like he was just wearing away." The Canadian lawyer said Khadr was not allowed regular exercise and did not see "the light of day" because of near round-the-clock lockup. "It is simply inaccurate to say that Mr. Khadr has not had regular exercise or has not seen the light of day," countered Bellinger. "Those allegations are just simply wrong." The conditions at Guantanamo, Bellinger said, "are consistent not only with international law but are very similar to, and are based on, the rules and conditions in our maximum security prisons." At Monday's hearing, Khadr will be asked by a military judge whether he wants to enter a plea. If Khadr pleads not guilty, it's expected he would face trial this fall. He faces potential life in prison if convicted.

What a crock of crap!

Oh and in relation to the acusations of poor treatment, here's what the US had to say:

U.S. official denies Khadr "wasting’ away

Nova Scotia News - TheChronicleHerald.ca

WASHINGTON — Omar Khadr’s lawyers are "simply wrong" to say the young Canadian is rotting away in Guantanamo Bay, says a top U.S. State Department official who claims Khadr must be held accountable for killing an American soldier and maiming another. In a briefing Tuesday before Khadr faces an arraignment next week on terror-related charges, legal adviser John Bellinger defended conditions at the U.S. prison camp and the military tribunals criticized by most western countries except Canada. Canada recognizes that it’s "appropriate" for Khadr, 20, to be tried on the serious crimes, he said, and agrees the special military commission system is the proper vehicle. Unlike Australian David Hicks, who struck a plea deal with U.S. authorities in March and received a nine-month sentence, there’s been no discussion with Canadian officials about Khadr serving time in Canada if he’s convicted, Bellinger said. Khadr, who’s been in U.S. custody since he was 15 years old and faces life in prison, was allowed a visit from his Canadian lawyers last week for the first time. Edmonton lawyer Dennis Edney complained that Khadr is "wasting away" in a basement cell, doesn’t see daylight and isn’t allowed to exercise. His U.S. lawyers have long charged that Khadr has been viciously tortured and held in isolation for long periods. "These allegations are just simply wrong," said Bellinger. "Conditions overall in Guantanamo are consistent with U.S. maximum security prisons." "Whether Mr. Khadr is happy about it is another matter," he said. "Clearly he was young when he committed these offences. That is unfortunate. He did make certain choices. He killed an American soldier . . . He has maimed another soldier who now is nearly blind." "He could have surrendered," said Bellinger, who expects witness accounts of the battle at Khadr’s trial.

What Bull.S. this is..... they already believe he did it, so how the hell is he ever going to get a fair trial?

And besides the fact that the place may meet the minimum requirements as a maximum security prison in the US, which I hear is just lovely in itself...... he has a very good chance at wasting away as they say...... cripes the kid has been in there since he was 15..... a teenager at his prime of development and growth..... now he's been locked away, treated like crap, and fed poorly I imagine, with lack of proper exercise..... do you think he's gonna fair as well as an adult, who's motabolism is much slower?

Friggin Ignorrant!

Khadr is charged with throwing a grenade in a July 2002 firefight in Afghanistan, killing Sgt. 1st Class Christopher Speer and seriously injuring Sgt. Layne Morris, who has sued the Khadr family along with Speer’s widow, Tabitha. Even if Khadr is eventually acquitted, the U.S. government isn’t guaranteeing it will free him. Authorities are saying they could still legally hold him as an enemy combatant during the anti-terror war. "We have the right to continue to hold someone," said Bellinger. Khadr’s case has captured international attention partly because of his youth and his late father’s close association with al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden. Bellinger, as legal adviser to Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, is responsible for all domestic and international legal matters relating to the State Department. What he says represents the U.S. military’s case against Khadr, which has not yet gone to trial. He held the briefing for journalists who are going to cover Khadr’s arraignment next week.

Makes me sick....

[nilan3000]

Quote by: improvident Thats actually crazy.. i personally didnt know there was anyone other than afgahns in Guantanamo..

Dude how often do you read the news?

Anyway, the bigger issue here is that national security is at stake and the government obviously feels that freedom must be sacrificed for the sake of security. Normally I wouldnt have a problem with that, but some of the cases we see are absolutely unbelievable.

I mean, I get that some amount of liberty must be sacrificed for safety, but to destroy a person's life without even ensuring that he is the enemy is just plain irresponsible.

[Praxius]

As they say on Unsolved Mysteries:

UPDATE:

Khadr fires American lawyers

Omar Khadr, the only Canadian held at the U.S. prison camp in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, has fired his American lawyers and will now only be represented by two Canadians. His former military lawyer, U.S. marine Lt.-Col. Colby Vokey, confirmed he had been taken off the case on Wednesday. He does not trust his American lawyers, Vokey said, adding that he does not blame Khadr, 20, for the decision. Vokey said the U.S. is responsible for Khadr's interrogation and his treatment under a process that is "patently unfair." Khadr is now represented by only two Canadian lawyers, Alberta-based Dennis Edney and Nate Whitling, who met with the Toronto-born detainee for the first time only last week. Because U.S. war crimes tribunal rules forbid foreign lawyers from being the lead attorney at military commission hearings, it's unclear what role the Canadian lawyers will play in Khadr's upcoming trial. Edney and Whitling only have approval from the Pentagon to act as "foreign attorney consultants" on Khadr's behalf, because they have not been cleared as full-level attorneys, Vokey told the Associated Press. Under new rules for military tribunals adopted last year, the detainee is permitted to represent himself. Khadr was 15 when he was captured in a firefight in Afghanistan in which he allegedly killed a U.S. army special forces soldier with a grenade. He is scheduled to be arraigned on Monday at the isolated base in southeast Cuba.

Well there's one step..... now if he can get the Lawyers to rep him, he might actually stand a chance...... might

[Praxius]

UPDATE:

CTV.ca | U.S. on 'dangerous path' with Khadr: lawyer

Defence team still up in the air as Khadr arraigned at U.S. base

Khadr to appear before U.S. military court in Cuba

U.S. NAVAL BASE GUANTANAMO -- Lieutenant-commander William Kuebler has never met Omar Khadr and, when asked, admits he is "not up to speed at all" on the facts of the Pentagon's case against the 20-year-old Canadian. But when Khadr appears here this morning to face murder and terrorism charges, Kuebler will be the only lawyer authorized to speak to the court on his behalf. "I am brand new to the case. If he wants me to be his lawyer, I would need some amount of time to conduct a full investigation and prepare for trial," Kuebler said in an interview.

What?! so this idiot they got to represent him hasn't even met him, know anything about his case, nothing??

He may not need to worry. As the first order of business at today's long-awaited arraignment before a U.S. war crimes tribunal, Khadr is expected to reject Kuebler and request he be represented by two Canadian lawyers who will also be appearing with him in court for the first time. Dennis Edney and Nate Whitling, two Edmonton-based lawyers, were recently approved as Khadr's "foreign attorney consultants" following a long battle with the Pentagon over security clearances to this maximum-security military base. But because rules for the military commissions prevent foreign lawyers from being the lead attorneys in war crimes trials, Khadr may very well end up defending himself on charges that could result in a life sentence. "I have been detailed to the case, and I cannot say right now whether Omar will accept me as his lawyer or not accept me as his lawyer," Kuebler said. "If I am not his lawyer, then it's going to be up to Mr. Khadr what he wants to do." Kuebler was thrust into the chaotic legal environment surrounding Khadr's case last week when the alleged al-Qaida member fired his lead American military lawyer, Lt.-Col. Colby Vokey, and two U.S. civilian lawyers who were preparing his defence. Although Khadr has repeatedly indicated he does not want American lawyers, the military has ordered Kuebler to appear anyway - even if only to sit silently in a chair by the Canadian's side. "It's critical to ensure that someone who knows the military commissions is assigned so they can zealously represent the individual," said John Bellinger, the U.S. State Department's senior legal adviser. It's understandable Khadr may be uncomfortable with American military lawyers, Bellinger said, and that's why tribunal rules also allow U.S. civilian lawyers and foreign lawyers to provide legal advice. "The system is set up so that any accused, including Mr. Khadr, will have the most extensive and robust assistance that they can have."

Yes, I'm sure he will. :rolleyes:

Khadr, who has been held at Guantanamo since almost five years, is accused of throwing a grenade that killed U.S. Army Sgt. Christopher Speer during a battle between American forces and al-Qaida near Khost, Afghanistan on July 27, 2002. He faces additional charges of attempted murder, spying, conspiracy and providing material aid to terrorists. No trial date has yet been set, but it's possible Khadr may enter a plea at today's hearing.

Here's a silly question.... how do you prove someone threw a grenade? Considdering they blow up and I hardly doubt you're gonna find a fingerprint.

Khadr's lawyers contend the U.S. is violating Geneva Conventions protecting juvenile combatants by putting him on trial. Khadr was 15 at the time of the alleged crimes. But senior U.S. officials argue the Geneva Convention "contemplates" that combatants detained under the age of 18 can be tried. "Clearly, he was young when he committed these offenses. That is unfortunate," said Bellinger. "On the other hand, he did make certain choices. He killed an American soldier who now has a wife and children who are growing up without a father."

Oh.... so there you have it.... once again.... already deemed guilty.... the poor soldier had a family..... well so did this kid.... even if he actually did throw a grenade and killed a soldier.... there is nothing there that sounds terrorist to me, or anything that would be a war crime.... he killed a soldier during a battle (That is if he was actually there in the first place)

That's what war is about..... killing and being killed..... this just bleeds of looking for someone to put the blame on.

The possibility Khadr will be denied the lawyers of his choice underscores how the legal odds are stacked against detainees, say human rights groups attending today's arraignment. "We have an entirely new court system and entirely new rules and no established precedent," said Jennifer Daskal, U.S. program advocacy director for Human Rights Watch. "It's something that is virtually impossible for even the most seasoned attorney to navigate, let alone an unrepresented individual."

And yet it still goes on......

After almost five years at Guantanamo, Khadr has appeared before a military judge on only two occasions, in 2006. Earlier charges against him were quashed when the U.S. Supreme Court ruled a prior version of the war crimes tribunals violated international law. The prolonged detention has left him emotionally scarred, his lawyers contend. He has suffered complications from injuries to his eyes suffered during the 2002 battle, said Edney, who visited Khadr for several hours two weeks ago at Guantanamo. "He couldn't see properly. He said his one eye didn't work," Edney said. American officials contend Khadr has access to excellent medical care - the same afforded American soldiers at Guantanamo - and that conditions at Guantanamo are no worse than any maximum-security prison in the U.S.

Oh wow..... and I heard those are ever so lovely.... what with the human rights groups fighting the conditions of those as well.

"I mean, this is a fact of life, that it is not a comfortable situation for anybody who has been accused of a crime... (they don't) have a comfortable and happy lifestyle," Bellinger said. "These are conditions that certainly are humane and in compliance with international standards. Whether Mr. Khadr is happy about it is a different situation."

I'm sure the tune would be different if they got to experience the other aspect of being a prisoner there...... do you hear other people in "Normal" prisons and jails complaining about the above? Not really..... so how they hell can they go on and ignore this?

[Praxius]

And another Update:

See this thread:
Guantanamo Canadian case dropped!!!!!