It's Official the US Healthcare system is broken: It is ranks dead last!

[GHook93]

U.S. health care expensive, inefficient - Health Care - MSNBC.com

Report: U.S. health care expensive, inefficient America ranks last among six countries on key measures, group finds WASHINGTON - Americans get the poorest health care and yet pay the most compared to five other rich countries, according to a report released on Tuesday. Germany, Britain, Australia and Canada all provide better care for less money, the Commonwealth Fund report found. “The U.S. health care system ranks last compared with five other nations on measures of quality, access, efficiency, equity, and outcomes,” the non-profit group which studies health care issues said in a statement. Germany scored highest, followed by Britain, Australia and New Zealand. “The United States is not getting value for the money that is spent on health care,” Commonwealth Fund president Karen Davis said in a telephone interview. The group has consistently found that the United States, the only one of the six nations that does not provide universal health care, scores more poorly than the others on many measures of health care.

This is deplorable. How can the richest country in the world have the worst healthcare program out of 6 countries? Medical bills are the #1 cause of bankruptcy. We have the highest uninsurance rate of any Western country. And now we rank the worst! That is the definition of a broken system.

How can anyone with a straight face argue that universal healthcare is not needed. You want proof? The 6 countries ranked higher than us have UHC. Every other Western country has UHC. This is insanity.

[Osborn F Enready]

What is insanity is arguing that universal healthcare is THE answer, as if there was only one, and our current system was actually legal.

[Praxius]

It's not insanity, it's logics.... It may not be the best solution.... but until you figure out a better solution, why stick with a system that absolutly doesn't work, and get something a bit better until you do?

I'm sure we here in Canada will come up with another method of health care, nothing ever last forever here, but until then, I'd prefer Universal over what you guys have any day.

Why are you the richest country? Probably because you have the world's largest debt and you don't put any of your money into health care..... makes sense to me.

[Mr.Vicchio]

A Biased study, trying to justify government owned and run medical care...

Gee it hates America?

I'm shocked, absolutely shocked. What next? A Study showing Capitalism is bad, socialism good?

[Matt W]

Sooo...how exactly is the Commonwealth Fund biased, Mr.V? Please, tell us how you think they 'hate America'? Or do you have any serious points to add? :rolleyes:

[Mr.Vicchio]

Quote by: Matt W Sooo...how exactly is the Commonwealth Fund biased, Mr.V? Please, tell us how you think they 'hate America'? Or do you have any serious points to add? :rolleyes:

I'm sorry Mr. Moderator sir! I insulted an idea you liked and questioned a source you support. I won't do it again I SWEAR! I retract all I said, the CWF is a great unbiased service to man showing the evils of a free market based health care system, we should all move for UHC so as to be in line with them!

There, now I am thinking just how you want me to Mr. Moderator! Please don't give me no infraction points for not agreeing with your UK style health care systems!

[GHook93]

Quote by: Osborn F Enready What is insanity is arguing that universal healthcare is THE answer, as if there was only one, and our current system was actually legal.

When we are ranked 6 out of 6 and we are the only ones without out it, then its insane to argue that UHC is not part of the answer.

[Matt W]

Oh, I'm so sorry for encouraging you to debate. Anything to add, or are you done?

[Mr.Vicchio]

It could be THAT I went to their website, and LO and BEHOLD! They are infact, a biased source that seeks to promote one thing, Universal Healthcare.

Of COURSE these people are gonna rank the USA low on their list. I give you evidence FROM THEIR WEBSITE!

The Fund supports independent research on health and social issues and makes grants to improve health care practice and policy. We are dedicated to helping people become more informed about their health care and improving care for vulnerable populations such as children, the elderly, low-income families, minorities, and the uninsured. Grants & Programs

Gee they give grants to fund UHC! Read the bold lines... yeah, UHC in a nutshell.

Further more:

Nearly 45 million Americans do not have health insurance, and an estimated 16 million more are considered 'underinsured' because they have high out-of-pocket costs relative to their income. Lack of adequate coverage makes it difficult for people to get the health care that they need and burdens them with large medical bills when they do get care. Read more »

Health Insurance

[GHook93]

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio A Biased study, trying to justify government owned and run medical care... Gee it hates America? I'm shocked, absolutely shocked. What next? A Study showing Capitalism is bad, socialism good?

Here is better support for you. The leading cause of bankruptcy in America are medical bills. Medical care is an essential service and should be provided without worrying about the bill.

[Mr.Vicchio]

Some interesting tidbits on the "common wealth fund" I found these to "add to the debate" since I have been chastised, I feel I must back up everything, just to be sure. I state this Common Wealth Fund to be a an advocacy group with an agenda, and I have provided evidence of this in the above post by me, heres some more:

That Karen Davis quote that Reuters uses, by the way, is from the Commonwealth Fund's press release. We actually couldn't find a "study released on Thursday" of last week but only the press release, which, oddly, includes this "Methodology" section: The Commonwealth Fund Biennial Health Insurance Survey was conducted from September 2003 through January 2004 by Princeton Survey Research Associates International. The survey consisted of telephone interviews among a nationally representative sample of 4,052 adults ages 19 and older living in the continental United States. Researchers examined where the public stands on financing broader coverage, the stability of Americans' health insurance coverage, the quality of their health benefits, and whether they can afford the health care that they need and pay their medical bills. Just to be clear, the Fund's press release appears to be talking about HSAs, too. There's the Davis quote noted above as well as this explanatory line, which we'll quote verbatim: HSAs are tax-deductible savings accounts individuals can use to pay for out-of-pocket health care expenses, enacted as part of the Medicare Modernization Act (MMA) of 2003. So, yes, they definitely mean HSAs, Health Savings Accounts, and not, in a generic sense, "health savings accounts," which might encompass other kinds of high-deductible-plus-account plans. But wait a second! HSAs weren't available at all until January 2004. Employers, mentioned several times in the Reuters article, generally weren't able to offer HSAs until this year. And Commonwealth's telephone survey, the basis of their press rele...er, "study," came to a close in January 2004. Being charitable, those insured by HSAs had the chance to use their plans for no more than 30 days at that point--and probably much less.

Heritage Policy Blog
Like anything, I encourage you to read the entire article from the link so as to get the full scope of the argument.

[Mr.Vicchio]

Quote by: GHook93 Here is better support for you. The leading cause of bankruptcy in America are medical bills. Medical care is an essential service and should be provided without worrying about the bill.

Pipe dreams, you can't have medical care without someone paying for it. Economics 101.

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: GHook93 Here is better support for you. The leading cause of bankruptcy in America are medical bills. Medical care is an essential service and should be provided without worrying about the bill.

Gee, that wouldn't have anything to do with "income", would it?

[Praxius]

Yeah you need the money to come from somewhere, but here in Canada, we got a system that works. It may not be the best, but I prefer it much over then your current system. I can goto the hospital if an emergancy occurs, and I won't be worrying about how I'm gonna get food next week. Education and Health should be free to everyone.... And yes I know Universal Health Care isn't technically free... it's still more free then your current system.

And of course it's going to be biased..... there is no need to make a balanced comparison to your current method, because your current method currently sucks. You want a solution, it has been provided.... you want proof that it will work.... look at other countries.

Is it perfect? No.... but it's a system that works for now..... same with currancy.... is it perfect? Hell no.... but it works for now, until something better comes along.

Let's put it this way for you:

You're stranded in the ocean..... and you're hanging on a rotten log to stay afloat. All of a sudden a red rubber dingy comes floating by..... but you don't take it because it's not green.....

If you wait for the perfect solution all the time, you'll get nothing done.

[Mr.Vicchio]

I prefer our system. Is it perfect? No, no system is perfect.

If I am in a car wreck, I will get emergency treatment. I might have to pay later for it, but I get treated.

If I am insured, and I am, if I need an MRI I will get one in less then a week, if I need to see a specialst, I am there. It's done.

I had a tooth blow out on me a month ago, I saw a dentist and had it taken care of the NEXT day, cost? $50.

My wife had a kidney infection, she had it treated in one day, for $100, had to go from the ER to a specialist, but it was done.

You Praxius, how long would it take your GP to get you into an MRI then over to a specialist?

[Praxius]

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio You Praxius, how long would it take your GP to get you into an MRI then over to a specialist?

Hmmm.... I haven't had to do that yet myself, but with my current medical coverage by my company (Not all medical proceedures are covered by the Canadian Health plan) Any Px I need only costs me $10... which is good, because originally my Px was around $40.

If I am in an accident, I am in the ER being treated as soon as possible. The wait times you hear about are generally towards non life threatening injuries, or illnesses, etc.... like the flu or a broken finger. In an accident, you are treated at no cost, you get your sugury, you got a bed, and you recoup there for as long as you need.... the only thing you pay for is the cable TV if you want it.

When I need to goto the dentist, which is considdered a cosmetic medical procedure, and is not covered by the normal Health Care, with the medical plan I have at work, I can get a checkup for about $20.... a filling is around $50 or so (That's Canadian mind you..... so that's be around $30ish US dollars.)

When I need to go see my family doctor, I tend to get in the next day.... if it's an emergancy, I can get ahold of him as soon as I need to. I don't have to pay the doctor for the visit, I just show him my Canadian Health Card and I'm in.

Operations such as Hip replacements and the sort, where they are not immediatly life threatening, there tends to be a wait time..... and although they are improving the wait times in the last few years, considdering you still don't have to pay for it out of your pocket, is a good thing.

You don't pay for Transplants
You don't pay for Operations (Unless Cosmetic)
And most of the doctors are pretty decent to talk to.

The taxes or the deductions that you put into the Universal Health care is similar to an insurance policy. You put your small amount of dues in per year, and when you need it, it's there.

As it goes for MRI wait times, there has been that issue in the past, mainly because there wasn't enough machines or specialist in the areas where it was needed. In the past year I read in the news there has been a lot of new MRIs brought into many of the hospitals just in my province alone, so the wait time issues I imagine have dropped since.

[Mr.Vicchio]

What is the monthly cost you pay for insurance taxes?

[Epistemologist]

Quote by: GHook93 U.S. health care expensive, inefficient - Health Care - MSNBC.com

The World Health Organization ranked the United States 37 out of 191 countries in 2000. Link.

[brien]

UHC is coming. I have been saying this for a long time. It is only a matter of whose clothes it will be wearing. The Capitalist or the Socialists duds. Freedom loving people better wake up sooon or the government will take over the administration of health care in the US and we will all be screwed.

Health care in the US is getting so expensive people are now travelling out of the country to have some proceedures done. I saw a guy featured on the news who went to Denmark for a leg treatment because it was 33% of the cost here in the US. We better wake up and get a handle on the system, but quick.

[PatrickHenry]

MDs are mostly clueless anyhow.

They usually just want to drug or cut.

Then they charge their patients exhorbitant fees and act like they are know-it-alls.

I prefer traditional Chinese medicine...of course, sometimes you do need the E-Room...

But how can you justify spending half of your healthcare budget on the last year of patients lives?

Prevention is where the money should be going...