Parents should be punished for their kid's crime?

[saltinespike]

Quote by: Duke1985 Are you saying we should charge Jeffery Dahmour's parents because at some point in his life they did something wrong and he couldn't handle it so he decided to start killing people? What would you charge a mass murder's parents with? What evidence could you present that wasn't just speculation? No, I can't agree to that one unless you had hard evidence (and damn good evidence at that) that the parents were somehow to blame.

Mass murderer is the wrong word. Let's say a teenager shoots a rival gang member. I think the parents should at least have a small toll to pay.

[Duke1985]

Quote by: saltinespike Mass murderer is the wrong word. Let's say a teenager shoots a rival gang member. I think the parents should at least have a small toll to pay.

How is that the parents fault though?

Did they buy the gun? Did they teach their kids gangs are cool? Are they responsible because they let little billy sonuvabitch listen to rap music?

Okay, heres a good question for this debate, how old is the cut off?
Where is the line where we say its no longer bad parenting, but bad kids?

[saltinespike]

Quote by: Duke1985 How is that the parents fault though? Did they buy the gun? Did they teach their kids gangs are cool?

Possibly not, but they did not teach their kids that gangs are not cool, as well as they did not stress the dangers of a gun enough. But these are not the only ways a parent can prevent the action. If they see warning signs (gangster friends, gangster rap, maybe even a mental illness), then they can do things like grounding the child, or giving him/her a chaperone, or have them check in by a cell phone. Not doing any of these things indicates an irresponsible parent.

Quote by: Duke1985 Are they responsible because they let little billy sonuvabitch listen to rap music?

Yes, if they think that it is seriously influincing him to do the wrong thing, to do what they did. Parents should notice bad influences and eliminate them. "Shoot that motherf*cker in the motherf*ckin' face" should not be heard by anyone not mature enough to realize that it is just a song: that the man singing is a rapper, not a preacher.

Quote by: Duke1985 Okay, heres a good question for this debate, how old is the cut off? Where is the line where we say its no longer bad parenting, but bad kids?

When they are legally considered an adult. 18 years old.

[Duke1985]

I don't think I can agree with all that, if your points are the only evidence provided, its too much speculation for me to support that conviction.

Also what if the parent tried to steer little billy in the right direction, but little billy and his gangster wannabe friends decided they wanted to join up with a gang anyway? Now not only does little billy have this gang pressuring him to commit crimes, little billy can't rightly walk away from that life now. From what I've seen, its not like quiting a job, you don't just put in your 2 weeks notice and then your out.

And I would defiantly say more like 15 or 16 should be the cut off.

[saltinespike]

Quote by: Duke1985 I don't think I can agree with all that, if your points are the only evidence provided, its too much speculation for me to support that conviction. Also what if the parent tried to steer little billy in the right direction, but little billy and his gangster wannabe friends decided they wanted to join up with a gang anyway? Now not only does little billy have this gang pressuring him to commit crimes, little billy can't rightly walk away from that life now. From what I've seen, its not like quiting a job, you don't just put in your 2 weeks notice and then your out. And I would defiantly say more like 15 or 16 should be the cut off.

The parents can still keep a child in the house, legally. Now, if the child were to physically abuse a parent, that is on the child. In some situations, the blame is on the child, this is true. Neither of us can speak for every situation. But in most situations, the parent can stop a crime committed by their child. This is why there's juvenile hall.

I believe the system is perfect the way it is, like I said before.

[Duke1985]

Well I'm not saying every situation its appropriate to let the parent off.
From what I've seen the system doesn't seem to over zealously prosecute parents.
All I'm saying is that the burden of proof would fall on the state, and a good portion of the evidence that the parent is responsible is speculation and just that.
If there is proof the parent made the gun used in the crime accessible, is the only piece of evidence I can see that is relevant, all this the parent didn't tighten the reigns enough for this child is speculation and shouldn't be admissible in any trial.

[WindWip]

A parent molds their child, there is definitely some responsibility for what the child does. If a child punches another person and the parent does nothing to let them know that punching is wrong, the parent is highly responsible. Obviously there is a limit to how long a parent should be responsible and there are also kids who act on their own even though the parent did a good job of raising them. The determining factors should be whether the child did the crime as a result of the way that they were raised, if the parent should have done something differently when raising them and if the child was aware of what they were doing and if they knew it was wrong.

[Duke1985]

Alright, how about this:

If we hold the parents responsible, to what degree do we do this, and most importantly how do we punish the parents?

[ZNFYRH]

I'd think it simple...

If a child commits a crime, then punish the parent as though they committed the crime.

[CoffeeSaint]

You punish the one who committed the crime. If the child is too young to understand that a crime was committed, then no crime was committed, according to our justice system. In certain situations the parents could receive a sanction for their inability to raise children responsibly, but that is most likely to take the form of either a civil suit against them, and/or loss of parental rights over any and all children.

That, after all, is all the parents are responsible for. If they didn't pull the trigger, they didn't commit the crime, unless they conspired with the child or were an accessory according to the law.

[Rinoa]

Quote by: ZNFYRH I'd think it simple... If a child commits a crime, then punish the parent as though they committed the crime.

See now that I've gotta disagree with. A fifteen year old has sex with an eight year old, should the parents be marked as sex offenders for the rest of their lives? I definitely don't agree with that. Now, I would support requiring parenting classes for parents whose children commit crimes in order to help prevent them from making more mistakes.

EDIT:

In certain situations the parents could receive a sanction for their inability to raise children responsibly, but that is most likely to take the form of either a civil suit against them, and/or loss of parental rights over any and all children.

Quoted because I agree completely.

[ZNFYRH]

The problem is that now you're raising the question of who decides what is irresponsible parenting.

[brien]

Quote by: ZNFYRH I'd think it simple... If a child commits a crime, then punish the parent as though they committed the crime.

Do you have a basis in law for this? Or is it merely your personal opinion?

[ZNFYRH]

It's merely my personal opinion.

This is stemming from observing that a child who does wrong, these days at least, wasn't "raised right."

[Rinoa]

Personally, I think that when the mom finds out she is pregnant some sort of standardized parenting classes should be required. Giving parents some basic principles to work from before they start could be very helpful.

[brien]

Quote by: ZNFYRH It's merely my personal opinion. This is stemming from observing that a child who does wrong, these days at least, wasn't "raised right."

I think it is reasonable to hold parents responsible for their child's damages in a civil court of law, but it is not lawful, nor do I consider it reasonable, to hold parents criminally responsible for their childrens' crimes.

[Athena]

Return public education to liberal education and preparation for good moral judgement.
Since replacing liberal education with education for technology, we have experienced radical cultural change, and blaming the parents for all the problems is a terrible injustice.

[ZNFYRH]

brien

I agree with you, but I thought parents were already accountable for civil damages?

[Rinoa]

Quote by: Athena Return public education to liberal education and preparation for good moral judgement. Since replacing liberal education with education for technology, we have experienced radical cultural change, and blaming the parents for all the problems is a terrible injustice.

I'd like to see an expansion upon this post. What do you mean by liberal education? Do you believe that parents or schools are responsible for the development of the childs moral beliefs?

[WindWip]

Quote by: ZNFYRH brien I agree with you, but I thought parents were already accountable for civil damages?

They are. But this brings up the question of why parents should be responsible for damage that a child does (graffiti/vandalism) yet they should not be responsible for attacking another person.