Stop REAL ID!

[Jack]

Submit comments to the Dept. of Homeland Security by May 8th! * A broad coalition of organizations across the United States is urging the public to submit comments rejecting the illegal national identification system created under the Department of Homeland Security's REAL ID program. * Five states and several members of Congress have rejected the scheme, which creates a massive national ID system without adequate security or privacy safeguards, which makes it more difficult and costly for people to get licenses, and which makes it easier for identity thieves to access the personal data of 245 million license and cardholders nationwide. * To take action and submit comments against this fundamentally flawed national ID system, click here! Comments are due by 5pm EST on May 8, 2007.

Privacy Coalition

Is the national ID scheme nonsensical, dangerous, or practical and an effective deterrent against terrorism?

[WindWip]

Terrorism is such a small problem that I feel we don't need to put anymore money into preventing it, and we definitely do not need anymore of our civil liberties taken away.

I am curious as to how much this new program would cost though. Anyone know?

[Fangrim]

REAL ID Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I don't see anything wrong with setting national standards for identification and driver's licences.
Privacy issue is null, since the states already have that information. You aren't losing your privacy if the government already has that information; this just encourages the states to give that information to the federal government as well, or they will lose federal funding (don't know how much or in what area though).
No civil liberties are being lost, especially if safeguards are made to protect that information against identity theft. And honestly, the government isn't that lax...
Get a grip people : /

As to terrorism, I don't know. I can't tell whether this would be effective for that purpose, and I certainly don't think anyone here is knowledgable enough or knows all of the contingences of this act or how the agency would enact their policies that they would know either.

[ZNFYRH]

For a long time, I've been a fan of a single number being used for all aspects of our lives.

Driver's License number, Social Security number, credit card number, etc., all the same.

The problem is that means there will need to be a level of security in place to ensure that a person isn't using someone else's number.

[Rinoa]

Maybe you could avoid getting on a plane or going into a government building, but you cannot avoid all of the ways licenses and ID cards are used. A national identification system would be disastrous. It would affect every aspect of your life-- being able to operate a motor vehicle, cash a check, get a job, register to vote, purchase a home, rent an apartment, get a hunting or fishing license, or enroll in school.

This statement right here bothers me. I don't think that it's actually written for legal citizens...We pretty much already have to have id to do everything that they've listed, and anyone that currently has a drivers license and social security card shouldn't have a problem getting a real id. The only people that will be troubled by having to get one will be those that don't have the paperwork to be here.


Also, the impression I got from the wikipedia article didn't seem to imply that it was truly a new form of id, just federal regulations stating what must be put on a drivers license and a sharing of databases between states. That also means that in essence, it's not creating a new database, but instead connecting databases that already exist. Meaning that the 'multiple entry point' danger is also already in place, those that enter are just limited to the one state database. But there are ways to keep that in place through encryption of the state access to the federal line.

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: ZNFYRH For a long time, I've been a fan of a single number being used for all aspects of our lives. Driver's License number, Social Security number, credit card number, etc., all the same.

Listen to yourself!

Why would you want government in all aspects of your life?

Quote by: ZNFYRH The problem is that means there will need to be a level of security in place to ensure that a person isn't using someone else's number.

Oh goody! Let's have implantable microchip RFIDs...:rolleyes:

[brien]

I am sick to death of the government intrusion to my privacy and a national ID card is yet another major intrusion. We already are a number, the SS#, in the scheme of grand government so why create another one? To track citizens from alien non citizens? To spy on citizens or alien non citizens? This homeland security excuse is yet another abuse of the rights to citizen privacy in the US. If the government were doing its job at the borders, there woud be no reason for a "National ID Card".

But go ahead and issue them, it wil give us another card to burn as we did with the draft cards in the 60's.

[ZNFYRH]

PatrickHenry

The government is already in every aspect of my life.

I'm talking about just having one number for everything instead of a thousand numbers.

What gets me is the number of people who believe that there is a way to be "off the grid" or keep the government out of your life.

It really isn't possible.

As long as your feet are on soil claimed by a government, you are at that government's mercy. I challenge anyone to prove otherwise.

[Rinoa]

Quote by: PatrickHenry Listen to yourself! Why would you want government in all aspects of your life?

What extra aspects are being added? From what I read, I understood that everything that the card would apply to already requires ID this same level of ID, and from what the wikipedia article said it wasn't even a seperate card being issued, just country wide regulation of the information on state id cards.

Oh goody! Let's have implantable microchip RFIDs...:rolleyes:

Honestly, I'd like to put one in my kid. I understand that because the current generation has been raised without one they won't tolerate it, but if we grew up with it I don't think it would be any bigger of a deal than having a drivers license. I don't understand why it really matters if they know what you're doing when you aren't breaking the law, so you bought a box of condoms last week, what on earth are they going to do with that information?

[Slevin57]

I don't see a problem with having a registry of illegal immigrants..

Nor do I see a problem with making the government more organized. I'm full confident that the NSA has the ability to connect to most of the state, local and national databases already, so establishing a uniform number [Which by the way is NOT what this act does] to identify American's is just another step toward organization.

The privacy of it all has already been lost.

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: ZNFYRH For a long time, I've been a fan of a single number being used for all aspects of our lives. Driver's License number, Social Security number, credit card number, etc., all the same.

So you like the idea of making identity theft even EASIER? Having been a victim of that myself I think it's easy enough already, thank you very much.

The problem is that means there will need to be a level of security in place to ensure that a person isn't using someone else's number.

How about an ID card that says your OTHER ID card is legit? That way, you can use the one forged card to verify the other forged card when the authorities demand to see "your papers."

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: ZNFYRH PatrickHenry The government is already in every aspect of my life. I'm talking about just having one number for everything instead of a thousand numbers. What gets me is the number of people who believe that there is a way to be "off the grid" or keep the government out of your life. It really isn't possible. As long as your feet are on soil claimed by a government, you are at that government's mercy. I challenge anyone to prove otherwise.

It seems you have a problem with authority. You seem to LIKE it too much.

Actually, you're right, the government pretty much DOES run your life. The problem with what you're saying is that thinking would be telling the government that you don't have a problem with it.
They just LOOOVE to hear that. It makes them just want to do that much more.

[ZNFYRH]

Scribbler

How about you check your attitude?

Did I say that I like the gov't being around?

Not every comment on here is either uber-anti-gov't or pro-gov't.

[ladyphoenix]

ZNF, How about you check your attitude. Perhaps the problem here is that people like Scrib would rather not see any more of us raped by the already super intrusive federal government that has grown out of control in the last 15-20 years. Perhaps he's suggesting that instead of rolling over and taking it like a good boy, you actually stop and say, "Hey, wait a minute, YOU serve ME, not the other way around." I don't know, I could be wrong. If you don't LIKE the government the way it is today, you have the right to CONTROL and RESTRAIN it. They serve YOU. All you have to do is make an EFFORT.

And seriously, the problem is not so much the cards as the database. And DHS has hinted that they want their "common machine readable technology" to be RFID. I have a big problem with that. It's one thing when the private company I work for puts RFID in my badge so I can get into the gate in the morning. It's entirely another to have the government force you to carry it. Do you know what applications already have RFID in them? Illinois' IPASS system. They charge everyone who refuses to use the IPASS double. And if you have one of their little boxes, and you get from one toll to another in too short a period of time, they mail you a speeding ticket, nevermind that you may not have been driving your car at the time... It amazes me. Not to mention that you can typically read a chip the size of one you'd find in a badge like I have, which is the same size as my drivers' license, with a hand held device up to about 3 meters away. Walk through a crowded mall some day and see how many cards you can read. Then feed those frequencies to the right application and boom, identity theft central. I feel REAL secure about that. Oh, and let us not forget that DHS has the right to require ANY and ALL information that they deem pertinent to national security, from your religion to your sexual orientation, and your only recourse is to sue them for supreme court review, because there's no provision for congressional oversight here.

Ok, I'm done ranting, I think...

[ZNFYRH]

ladyphoenix

If that is what he wanted to say, he should have said it.

I go off what someone says, nothing more.

I do, actually, take an active role in my local government. I speak publicly when the opportunity presents itself and I always question and engage my representatives when I can.

I have taken the time to look into identify theft and the Real ID system, and my opinion remains the same.

The ease of identity theft is due to the fault of the victim. You can make it difficult to use your ID to do things. Social security numbers are shamefully easy to find, but these days you need more than that.

None of my passwords are less than 10-12 characters and all of them would pass any password protection metric.

Really, though, this topic boils down to two things for me. They are based on a lifetime of close government associations and observation.

The first is that any identity number of some kind is as safe as you want it to be.

The second is that as long as you are in America the government can get to you easily. For a small amount of money, any citizen can find you with equal ease. That is the nature of the beast in America.

Before anyone gets all twisted up thinking that they would be submitting to the mercy of the government with Real ID, consider that you are already at the government's mercy.

[PatrickHenry]

My buddy, Congressman Ron Paul, thinks it's a bad idea. National ID Cards Won't Stop Terrorism or Illegal Immigration
His reasoning?

Federally imposed standards for drivers' license and birth certificates make a mockery of federalism and the 10th amendment. While states technically are not forced to accept the federal standards, any refusal to comply would mean their residents could not get a job, receive Social Security, or travel by plane. So rather than imposing a direct mandate on the states, the federal government is blackmailing them into complying with federal dictates.

Interesting to me that we have US citizens on this board who are ignorant of the Constitution and the people's Bill of Rights. No wonder the republic is descending into tyranny.

[ZNFYRH]

So sad that you raise a valid point of argument but couldn't resist a jab at members of this board.

Of course, you were just as ignorant of this until it was put in perspective for you.

Regardless of your personal need to belittle people here when you were one of them just yesterday, there are two things that are relevant here:

1. The Social Security system is already a number assigned to each person for Federal purposes. Real ID appears rather superfluous.

2. The relation of businesses to the federal government and their rights to operate are independent of state laws. Things like employment and travel are, unfortunately, dictated by certain federal standards.

[5010]

How about a trade. I can live without social security and airplane rides if the feds can live without taxing me.

[ZNFYRH]

I'd take that trade.

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: ZNFYRH your personal need to belittle people

Pot...kettle. I made a general observation, while you choose direct personal confrontation. OK, if that's how you like it, you'd best not mischaracterize the nature of your OWN debate lest it be labeled hypocrisy.

Quote by: ZNFYRH 1. The Social Security system is already a number assigned to each person for Federal purposes. Real ID appears rather superfluous.

The SS# is for SS purposes ONLY! It is not intended for any other purpose, despite the misuse over the years. Social Security number - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Social Security Cards up until the the 1980s expressly stated the number and card were not to ever be used for identification purposes

Quote by: ZNFYRH 2. The relation of businesses to the federal government and their rights to operate are independent of state laws. Things like employment and travel are, unfortunately, dictated by certain federal standards.

Like non-discrimination and so on? Fine, but why are the Feds asserting their power to control every aspect of our lives? Don't they trust us?

Well, I don't trust THEM (the Feds)...