The Gun Control THINK TANK thread

[brien]

But guns arecool

And just who is repsonsible for this perception? Hint; turn on your TV or merely go to the movies. You will see a "cool" character smoking a cigarette and shooting a gun.

[Mozart1220]

Quote by: brien And just who is repsonsible for this perception? Hint; turn on your TV or merely go to the movies. You will see a "cool" character smoking a cigarette and shooting a gun.

You also see "uncool" characters doing the same things. What's your point?


Maybe it's that too many people are smoking and carrying guns....especially "smoking" guns...

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: Mozart1220 You also see "uncool" characters doing the same things. What's your point? Maybe it's that too many people are smoking and carrying guns....especially "smoking" guns...

His point is that the real problem here is the anti-gun peoples "perception" of the problem.


A classic example of transfering blame.


For Christs sake, you people are attempting to blame inanimate objects for crime.


There are times when you just have to accept the popular reality, and not reject it, and replace it with your own.

[CoffeeSaint]

Quote by: Milton Bradley His point is that the real problem here is the anti-gun peoples "perception" of the problem. A classic example of transfering blame. For Christs sake, you people are attempting to blame inanimate objects for crime. There are times when you just have to accept the popular reality, and not reject it, and replace it with your own.

No, the real problem here is that even while people argue that guns are just tools, they don't really do anything and nobody should actually pay attention to them but should instead think only of criminals, those same people are chanting, "When you pry it from my COLD DEAD FINGERS!" every night when they go to sleep. Seems like a classic attempt at misdirection -- sort of a Wizard of Oz thing.

If guns are really as powerless as you claim, and the problems we have with gun violence really lie only with the criminals, then why are so many people so determined to hang onto their guns? Could it be that there is in fact power in guns? If there is, why shouldn't those of us who mistrust or yes, even fear, this power not try to diffuse it, to reduce it? Why is that power worth the cost?

And while there are times when you have to accept reality and deal with it as it is, there are also times when you can change it if you are willing. I think this is one of the latter occasions.

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: CoffeeSaint No, the real problem here is that even while people argue that guns are just tools, they don't really do anything and nobody should actually pay attention to them but should instead think only of criminals, those same people are chanting, "When you pry it from my COLD DEAD FINGERS!" every night when they go to sleep. Seems like a classic attempt at misdirection -- sort of a Wizard of Oz thing.

Speaking of misdirection, you don't really think the majority of gun owners actually SAY things like that, do you? I don't even know NRA members who say shit like that.
That's a minority of gun owners, perhaps the ones that might actually BE called "gun nuts". However, most gun owners just don't want the government intruding into their lives in a futile attempt to stop crime by taking away the weapons of law abiding people.

[brien]

Quote by: Mozart1220 You also see "uncool" characters doing the same things. What's your point? Maybe it's that too many people are smoking and carrying guns....especially "smoking" guns...

The point is that Hollywood treats gunshots with a cavalier and irresponsible attitude. When people are shot, the don't bleed, their bones don't break, and they are thrown backward, forward or sideways from the velocity of the gunshot. It is total unreality and viewers suck it up. It is where most people get thier ideas with regard to firearms and it is preposterous.

I am not suggesting censoring gunshots, only pointing out that they really need to be realistic if Hollywood want to be included in responsible firearms reform. The realistic portrayal of a shooting would cut both ways with regard to the issue by revolting viewers and thus calling for real reform with the use of firearms in American society. It would also remind American TV and movie viewers that criminals who use firearms during the commission of a crime need to be fully and severely prosecuted by the DOJ. Hollywood has a responsiblity to participate in this reform and do it fairly and accurately.

[CoffeeSaint]

Quote by: Scribbler1 Speaking of misdirection, you don't really think the majority of gun owners actually SAY things like that, do you? I don't even know NRA members who say shit like that. That's a minority of gun owners, perhaps the ones that might actually BE called "gun nuts". However, most gun owners just don't want the government intruding into their lives in a futile attempt to stop crime by taking away the weapons of law abiding people.

No, I don't think the majority of gun owners say that. I also don't think the majority of gun owners discuss their firepower at great length and with deep and abiding passion, in public. I also don't think the majority of gun owners promote events when people get together and fire giant machine guns and such, or go through an area and kill everything alive on it -- though they may go to one every now and again for a lark.

I don't think the majority of gun owners are the problem. And because I agree that the government should not be given carte blanche to intrude into our lives, I don't approve of legislating a ban on guns. But I don't see why someone couldn't keep their guns, defned their right to keep their guns -- and also try to decrease the aura of power that surrounds guns in our society today.

[Scribbler1]

I think the "aura of power" affects mainly weak minded people who are prone to following others. I realize you recognize this isn't the norm with gun owners, but then it becomes a case of the user and not the tool once again.

When we were kids we played like cowboys, secret agents and the like, and we ALWAYS pretended to use guns. There were no Columbines or Virginia Techs then, so I suspect this insane obession with what's "cool" is a fairly recent development, at least as extreme as it is today. It might be the increase in crime is proportionate to how "cool" people think guns are.

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: Scribbler1 When we were kids we played like cowboys, secret agents and the like, and we ALWAYS pretended to use guns. There were no Columbines or Virginia Techs then, so I suspect this insane obession with what's "cool" is a fairly recent development, at least as extreme as it is today. It might be the increase in crime is proportionate to how "cool" people think guns are.

I think there is a direct correlation to poverty.


As the middle class disappears leaving only the rich, and the poor, would it suprise anybody that the poor feel disenfranchised by the rich, and that some people look to equal that playing field with the use of tools?


Seems to me that most gun crimes are people trying to gain material in a material world.