Why are we in Afghanistan?

[Praxius]

The ChronicleHerald.ca
From just wanting to help, to fighting terrorism, to the money, soldiers have own reasons for being here:

THE EASY ANSWER is they’re here because the federal government sent them to Afghanistan. Officially, Canadian troops are here at the request of the Afghan government to help build a stable, democratic and self-sufficient society. But our soldiers have their own reasons for coming to this war-torn country. "Mainly it was just, ‘It’s my job,’ " said Pte. Alex Othen of Halifax. "I signed up to go somewhere. I didn’t sign up to be in the infantry to sit back in Canada and just collect a paycheque." Some soldiers have broad objectives. "I personally want to achieve a secure environment in Zhari district," said Maj. Dave Quick, who commands India Company. ""That’s my area. That’s my piece of the pie." Over the past three months, the district has changed considerably, Maj. Quick said. "When I came here in January, the company that I replaced was sitting on Route Summit," he said. "That company was consolidated in defence positions along that road, defending that road, making sure the Taliban couldn’t influence that road." Since then, India Company’s 150 soldiers have pushed out to the extent that they freely patrol an area of about 60 square kilometres on foot. But Canadians are also supposed to be supporting the government of Afghanistan by doing things like training local soldiers and police and working on development projects such as building schools and roads. "It’s not just boots on the ground," Maj. Quick said. He believes Canadians have gained a lot of respect from Zhari residents, pointing out that they were invited to a recent festival in the village of Spin Pi. "That’s a huge jump," Maj. Quick said. "In three months we went from sitting on that road in the trenches to sitting down next to local nationals, just average Joes in a village having lunch." Some soldiers assert that their efforts here send a clear message to the international community that the Great White North is not a soft target. "If the government shows that it’s willing to fight terrorism outside the country, then they’ll for sure know that we’re willing to fight it inside our country," said Warrant Officer John Blackmore of Glace Bay. Others, such as Cpl. Matt Elliott of Dartmouth, are here following family traditions of public service. His father is a Mountie at the New Minas detachment and his grandfather fought in the Second World War. "Personally why I’m here is my grandfather was in the war, my father is in the RCMP, my uncles are firefighters," Cpl. Elliott said. "Pretty much everyone’s done their part and I figured this is my way to do my part for my country." A lot of the Canadian troops are motivated by cold, hard cash. Soldiers will take home at least an extra $20,000 on top of their normal pay for coming to Afghanistan, said a sergeant who didn’t want his name used. "Money is the reason and that’s no joke. Twenty grand for the private, and a chance to kill somebody," he said. Some soldiers talk about using the money to go to school. Others need it to pay off student loans. Real estate agents know all too well that people on this tour have money to spend. One has gone so far as to send brochures to them in Kandahar. Car and truck dealerships back home also stand to cash in on the deployment. "Some guys pre-ordered Harleys before they left," the sergeant said. Other soldiers came here for the challenge of repairing a country racked by three decades of war. "The humanitarian side really appeals to me," said Warrant Officer Jim Hunter, a civil-military co-operation expert from Springhill who has been working to clear irrigation ditches in Zhari. "I hoped before I came over, and I found it’s true here, that I see a physical difference as I go along where things are changing and things are improving. It’s very small, very minute things, mind you. But it’s things that I can say I assisted with this. I actually did something that I can be proud of. Things I can brag about, even back home." Sending troops here has made Canada a more secure place, said the 32-year-old. "The safer it is here, the less export of terrorism," he said. "From a safety-of-Canada point of view, if we can keep the Taliban concentrated here and their efforts focused on trying to re-establish a power base, then they won’t have the kind of time, effort and resources to put into attacks outside of Afghanistan." Soldiers are always trained to fight. But Pte. Curtis LeBlanc of Halifax said that’s not his ultimate goal here. "I didn’t come so much to root out Taliban," Pte. LeBlanc said. "I came here and I really like that kids can now go to school and women can vote. That’s my main reason for being here. ""I like to help people. That’s why I joined the army. I didn’t join with the hope of heavy fighting." Pte. Matthew Oakley of Lower Sackville can’t come up with a personal reason for being here, other than it might help him get into the RCMP once his army contract is up in 2009. "I just want to get back home, to be honest," said the 19-year-old rifleman. "I don’t think I’ll really care about what’s going on over here once I’m home." Other soldiers have a deep interest in history and wanted to come to Kandahar to see it in the making. "I wanted to be here because I don’t trust anyone’s opinion on what’s going on but my own and I wanted to come see why there’s all this media coverage on Afghanistan," said Pte. Chad Wilkie. The 19-year-old from Summerside, P.E.I., is convinced Canadians are improving the lot of Afghans living without power, running water and proper food. "When you go out on patrol here and you see the people of Afghanistan and you see what they have to live with, and you talk to the people and you hear about how they’ve been oppressed, you get a really good consensus that they actually need help," Pte. Wilkie said. "And when you go out there and you patrol, you get to actually see the progress that’s made on the ground. When you go into a new town and you establish a positive presence, or you see kids and they want a pencil and you give it to them, or you just help a kid that doesn’t even ask for it one of the shy ones that’s just kind of there in the corner you really get to help those people. And that’s why Canadians are here."

I figured this perspective would help add a bit of a different angle as to what's going on over there.... well from a Canadian point of view I suppose.

[Hellsea]

I think that we are in Afganistan to put a leash on the Middle East. Afganistan is near to Iran and Paskistan, which are areas with major terroist groups, drug rings, and weapons dealings. Being in Afganistan helps us to keep an eye on the coutries surrounding the area.

[Matt W]

Right. That's what the Russians said. They had about as much luck....

[Hellsea]

Actually the Russians were there for a different reason and fought with completely different tactics. That is why THEY were unsuccessful. We have been very successful. We did in months what the Russians couldn't do in 10 years. We are still there only because the Pakistani's don't have the balls to confront the "Enemy within". What we should do is take over Pakistan and flush the whole lot. The Afghan goverenment and Army are now taking the fight to the animals that need to be destroyed; 99% of which aren't even from Afghanistan (read Chechnya). Questions?

[Osborn F Enready]

Yes, when did we become an international police force, and an empire with the power to erase nations and national governments?

[shawmutt]

In my humble armchair opinion, this is the only country the US should be in over there. Well, that and Saudi Arabia.

[Nono]

Quote by: Hellsea The Russians were there for a different reason and fought with completely different tactics. That is why THEY were unsuccessful. We have been very successful. We did in months what the Russians couldn't do in 10 years.

Mind elaborating, Hell? I'm not convinced the Russians' reasons were that different (The Great Game, as usual). Nor that their tactics were that different.

That they were unsuccessful, I agree.

But "we" have been very successful?? Gimme a break.

Anyway, we're off-topic here in Society'n'Rights. Most Canadians in Afghanistan are probably playing out a childhood war fantasy. Good luck to 'em.

[Praxius]

Quote by: Nono Anyway, we're off-topic here in Society'n'Rights. Most Canadians in Afghanistan are probably playing out a childhood war fantasy. Good luck to 'em.

Pssh.... if we are, we're doing a far better job then the "Real Soldiers"

[Hellsea]

To: Osborn F Enready: Cute :) We became an international [police forcewhen we took on the responsibility of war. It was not our choice to go to war. So it was/is not our choice to become the babysitters for countries who's only use to us is oil (Saudi). In addition, it is funny you should ask about when we became an empire with the power to erase nations and national goverment. That is a very simple question. We have had the power to erase goverments for a VERY long time. If need arise, that is what our bombs are for. Hopefully it will never come to that, but opposing countries know that we have weapons of destruction within our grasp. We have the most powerful goverment in the world and by God our goverment knows it.

[Hellsea]

To Nono: The Russians had very different tactics from us. Not only did we go into this war with the soul purpose of gaining peace, but we also went into this war to save the lives. The Russians had no such thoughts. Do you honestly think that the Russians wanted peace? No, they wanted power. The Russians also did not want to save lives. They could have cared less.

and Nono another thing.... Yes, We have been very successful in this war. Not only have we won every major battle in Iraq, but we have gained the trust of the majority of Iraqi and Afgani nationals. I say that in this war we have taken a huge step.... we have opened the eyes of the blind, and given them a chance to embrass freedom. That is more then many countries can ask for.

[Zhavric]

The explanation for why we're in afghanistan is 1 word long:

Oil.

Have you guys looked at a map lately?



What two countries have we invaded?

Afghanistan and Iraq.

How long was the Iraq invasion supposed to take? A few months. The Iraqis were supposed to greet us with open arms, remember?

What's in between Afghanistan and Iraq?

Iran.

What are we doing with Iran right now? We're giving them trouble over allegedly having the makings of weapons of mass destruction (nukes or nuclear capability).

Understand that Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan represents some of the last low-hanging fruit where oil is concerned. There's more out there, but it's under miles of water or meters of perma-frost... or in stable South American countries that wouldn't stand for a U.S. presence in the region.

What did they Bu$h administration want to do? Simple: they wanted to use the will of the people after 9/11 to go after terrorists & alleged terrorists in oil rich areas to secure middle eastern oil for America. We were supposed to take over Afghanistan and Iraq and then go after Iran from two sides with the assistance of Afghani and Iraqi forces. Along with Kuwait, Israel and Saudia Arabia, we would have a massive presence in the mid east and be able to secure oil supplies.

[Praxius]

And such an act would also make sure you loose all your allies and produce even more enemies.... I know I would love to fight against something as shallow and heartless as taking over countries for oil..... I have suspected this was the reason for the invasions, because WOMD was a lame excuse. I figured there would have been more reason for the thousands of people dieing then just the sake of oil..... makes ya sick.

[grandpa]

Quote by: Praxius And such an act would also make sure you loose all your allies and produce even more enemies.... I know I would love to fight against something as shallow and heartless as taking over countries for oil.....

And right now we're still hearing about the WMD threat in Iran.

Grandpa h.

[Nono]

Quote by: Hellsea Do you honestly think that the Russians wanted peace? No, they wanted power. The Russians also did not want to save lives.

Do you honestly believe "we" are there for any other reason than geopolitical power? You should be more skeptical about all those press releases you've been reading (and believing).

Not only have we won every major battle in Iraq...

Win the battle, lose the war.

We have gained the trust of the majority of Iraqi and Afgani nationals. I say that in this war we have taken a huge step.... we have opened the eyes of the blind, and given them a chance to embrass freedom. That is more then many countries can ask for.

You're on some sort of demoscopic acid trip, Hell. Can you provide a single shred of evidence for your views?

On the contrary: BBC NEWS | Middle East | Iraq poll 2007: In graphics

"(...) Support for the coalition forces based in Iraq is low - with 82% expressing a lack of confidence in them and 69% thinking they had made the security situation worse. (...) The belief that the US-led coalition was wrong to have invaded Iraq in 2003 has steadily increased since 2004. (...)"

(Note to mods -- Maybe this thread should be moved.)

[grandpa]

Quote by: Nono Do you honestly believe "we" are there for any other reason than geopolitical power? You should be more skeptical about all those press releases you've been reading (and believing).

It makes even more sense to be skeptical when claims can be checked with google.

Grandpa h.

[Praxius]

(Note to mods -- Maybe this thread should be moved.)

Why should this be moved?

This thread is in relation to the Society of the Canadian Military and how they feel about what they are doing where they are. This thread was originally to compare how the Military Societies differ from one country to the next, and to also explain some personal reasons of why some of the troops are there.

Just because you guys hi-jacked the thread for some other debate, doesn't mean you should move it.

So if you want to talk about how much Iraqi's hate your troops, or how much of a failure the missions are, fine.... do it in another thread.

This thread was mainly geared to see what Soldiers personally say about why they are doing what they are doing. If you have quotes and interviews of some US, UK, or other troops around the world discussing their reasons for being in the mission or war they are in, by all means, I think those would be interesting to read.

This thread isn't about polotics, the governments, and it's not about philosophy so much..... it's about getting past what the poloticians are saying and getting right to what the soldiers who are doing the work think.

[Hellsea]

Why Nono, I am very skeptical about what I read and where I read it. You are the one that is not being skeptical. None of the things I write are based upon what others say. I have gained my knowledge from first hand experience. If we had not of gone into this war seeking peace, the lives of civilians would not have mattered to us. If that had been our mind set, we would not have been any better than the Russians.

Another thing, how are you so ignorant to be able to state that if we "win the battle" then we'll "lose the war?"

I think that you should be more skeptical about what you read.

Here is a little bit of proof that should help you understand that we are gaining trust in Iraq.

WASHINGTON, Dec. 28, 2004 – Iraqi citizens continue to help U.S. soldiers rid their country of illegal weapons, Multinational Force Iraq officials reported today.

Two Iraqi children led 1st Infantry Division soldiers from Task Force Trailblazer to a weapons cache near Bayji this morning. The soldiers discovered nine land mines hidden in a former tank position and are investigating additional caches in the area, officials said.

Later today, near Duluiyah, an Iraqi citizen reported a weapons cache to 1st Infantry Division soldiers. The cache consisted of four 20 mm machine guns, a 60 mm mortar tube, an anti-aircraft gun, a box of 20 mm high-explosive ammunition, a box of .50-caliber ammunition, rocket propellant, rocket fuses, a 20 mm recoilless rifle, and six boxes of armor-piercing ammunition. The cache was transported to a Multinational Force facility for future destruction.

These are only a few examples. These people (Iraqi citizens) are coming to us and helping America because they TRUST us.

This is my evidence I hope this diminishes your appetite.

[Nono]

What's your source there, Hell, Stars and Stripes? (You're supposed to cite sources on Volconvo.)

I have gained my knowledge from first hand experience.

So, you have spent time in the war zone in Iraq. In what capacity, may I ask?

[Hellsea]

Here is my source.
Military News - Veteran News: Iraqis Direct Soldiers to Weapons Caches

A trusted military site.

By the way. I have lived the military life for many years. The Air Force is my passion and what happenes down range stays down range.

[Nono]

Well, Hell, maybe you trust it, but any publication that has a masthead with stuff like "Today we salute 20 American Heroes who gave their lives for our freedom" on it is eminently untrustworthy.

Anyway, all that stuff in the article -- even if it is true -- is pure anecdote.