Watch the videos. What the Gay Agenda is doing, to 1st-3rd graders.

[Mr.Vicchio]

Kam, you were supposed to stop watching when the propaganda started, I did.

I think it's irresponsible, and wrong to spend an entire day playing "Gay is good, love gays like people too." Whether it's a wired into them genetically or an aberrant flaw in the person is immaterial, it's the age appropriateness that I object too. These kids are FAR too young to be making moral decisions taught by the state.

Get that, that's my problem with this. Our kids have a hard enough time reading writing and doing arithmetic but oh boy, they know to be supportive of homosexuals!

The part that really got my wife in arms? The role play "Let's pretend were judges..." on the matter of gay marriage. Come on now, even you pro-gay folks have to see where that's wrong.

[Kamehameha34]

No. The whole day was productive. Steering children away from bigotry is not "wrong", in any sense of the word.

Sex was never discussed in the video. That's a non issue.

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio Kam, you were supposed to stop watching when the propaganda started, I did. I think it's irresponsible, and wrong to spend an entire day playing "Gay is good, love gays like people too." Whether it's a wired into them genetically or an aberrant flaw in the person is immaterial, it's the age appropriateness that I object too. These kids are FAR too young to be making moral decisions taught by the state. Get that, that's my problem with this. Our kids have a hard enough time reading writing and doing arithmetic but oh boy, they know to be supportive of homosexuals! The part that really got my wife in arms? The role play "Let's pretend were judges..." on the matter of gay marriage. Come on now, even you pro-gay folks have to see where that's wrong.

[phoenix_fire]

Quote by: Kamehameha34 So children should be encouraged to treat others as human beings, but it's "not that big o' deal"? This has nothing to do with "teaching kids to be gay", so what the children "want" to be is a non-issue. Tell me, should we not assume that racism is inherently wrong?

You can teach children to "treat others as human beings" without attaching an agenda to it. In fact, it would be better to teach it in a non-specific way. That way, you can get kids to treat Muslims, nerds, freaks, Pentecostals, Vegans, fat kids, and people with funny accents "as human beings" too, without having to designate a day for all of them.

That was used first to make a point that subject matter based on sex is too early for them. The other point was that they can't abuse gay classmates if they're not old enough to be gay, so what exactly is the aim?

Racism? Red herring.

[phoenix_fire]

Quote by: Isherwood You're unfairly comparing a character trait that one has no control over (sexual identity) with the adoption of a belief system which is entirely, ought to be entirely, voluntary. You chose to be a theist, I can choose to openly criticize that choice, and you my choice to not be. But I cannot fairly hold a bias against you for the color of your hair (if natural...if not, then it's a choice thing), the color of your eyes, your sex or sexual persuasion. For the sake of humanity we should teach children to respect others regardless of their inherited attributes or physical impairment. We can teach them to be polite. But they should be free to form their own opinion regarding the choices people make. Whether they accept, are neutral or opposed to other's choices.

Ah, but you should have seen yourself stepping into this one. Because some people think that homosexuality is a choice too.

[Kamehameha34]

Quote by: phoenix_fire You can teach children to "treat others as human beings" without attaching an agenda to it. In fact, it would be better to teach it in a non-specific way. That way, you can get kids to treat Muslims, nerds, freaks, Pentecostals, Vegans, fat kids, and people with funny accents "as human beings" too, without having to designate a day for all of them.

I'd trust the school to judge if that's necessary. Clearly, it sees persecution of homosexuals as a more pressing matter.

That was used first to make a point that subject matter based on sex is too early for them. The other point was that they can't abuse gay classmates if they're not old enough to be gay, so what exactly is the aim?

What about children with same-sex parents?

Racism? Red herring.

No, it isn't. Both sexuality and race are conditions that people can't choose. Discouraging hatred for one but not the other is hypocritical.

[Mr.Vicchio]

Quote by: phoenix_fire Ah, but you should have seen yourself stepping into this one. Because some people think that homosexuality is a choice too.

Those people are just closed minded, ignorant religious zealot bigots who have no right to say anything.

[Kamehameha34]

Quote by: phoenix_fire Ah, but you should have seen yourself stepping into this one. Because some people think that homosexuality is a choice too.

Unless those people tried to be homosexual for a week, succeeded, and then went back to heterosexuality - I'll pay there view no mind.

[Mr.Vicchio]

Quote by: Kamehameha34 Unless those people tried to be homosexual for a week, succeeded, and then went back to heterosexuality - I'll pay there view no mind.

What about the "Ex gays"

[Kamehameha34]

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio What about the "Ex gays"

You have no means to seperate (supposedly) true "ex gays" from those that are just confused about their sexuality.

[Mr.Vicchio]

Quote by: Kamehameha34 You have no means to seperate (supposedly) true "ex gays" from those that are just confused about their sexuality.

That's a weak dodge. If someone was "gay" then went straight, that should mean something.

[CoffeeSaint]

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio Did you watch both films? Yeah. Hey question for ya, we can teach this "Tolerance" in schools, but you can't say the pledge of allegiance without a court order... might offend a "Non religious person" But this tolerance taught... don't matter if it offends religious folk. Yeah.

I say the Pledge of Allegiance every week, along with my students, despite the fact that I'm an atheist. You really should ask before you make assumptions about my politics -- because you know what happens when you assume . . .

So we're going to ignore this red herring and move along.

Quote by: Mr. Vicchio Kam, you were supposed to stop watching when the propaganda started, I did.

Oops, didn't get that memo. Can you define "propaganda" for me?

Quote by: Mr. Vicchio I think it's irresponsible, and wrong to spend an entire day playing "Gay is good, love gays like people too." Whether it's a wired into them genetically or an aberrant flaw in the person is immaterial, it's the age appropriateness that I object too. These kids are FAR too young to be making moral decisions taught by the state.

When the moral decision is, "Accept that other people are different," I don't see it as a problem. If you do, don't send your kids to this school. The purpose of public schooling is to help students adapt to living in our society, and conform to certain standards so that they will cause fewer problems in society; tolerance has become one of those standards.

Quote by: Mr. Vicchio Get that, that's my problem with this. Our kids have a hard enough time reading writing and doing arithmetic but oh boy, they know to be supportive of homosexuals!

So because these kids are stupid, they shouldn't be asked to understand things? First of all, there was a 3rd grader on one of those videos describing the constant use of "gay" and "fag" as insults on the playground. So apparently, these kids have already been exposed to the concepts. Secondly, considering how much kissing and marrying and "living happily ever after" there is in fairy tales, clearly these children have been indoctrinated in heterosexual standards of sexuality from an even younger age.
I can't fathom why you dislike the idea of kids supporting homosexuals. Homosexuals are people. Why is this bad?

Quote by: Mr. Vicchio The part that really got my wife in arms? The role play "Let's pretend were judges..." on the matter of gay marriage. Come on now, even you pro-gay folks have to see where that's wrong.

Nope, not even a little bit. Asking kids to look at evidence and make a judgement is how you teach critical thinking, and connecting the examples to a real-life context makes it more effective. I didn't hear that guy saying there was a right answer and a wrong answer; he seemed to give the two sides pretty fairly. The video showed kids who were for gay marriage, but it didn't show all the kids -- I'm sure there were plenty of intolerant bigots among the others.

And if I'm pro-gay, then you would be . . .

[Jack]

Because some people think that homosexuality is a choice too.

Society is under no obligation to consider the opinions of the misinformed when making educational policy. Do we allow misogynistic and racist attitudes to be taught in school? Of course not, because those attitudes are not constructive and don't contribute positive values to society.

[Kamehameha34]

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio That's a weak dodge. If someone was "gay" then went straight, that should mean something.

Calling it a dodge, then failing to validate it as a dodge amounts to nothing. Support your point.

[phoenix_fire]

Quote by: Kamehameha34 I'd trust the school to judge if that's necessary. Clearly, it sees persecution of homosexuals as a more pressing matter. What about children with same-sex parents? No, it isn't. Both sexuality and race are conditions that people can't choose. Discouraging hatred for one but not the other is hypocritical.

I don't think that's true. I think that it's more about politics than a real need. I would think that, given the results of bullying against other groups as cited (results being Colombine and Virginia Tech among a long list of others), that kind of persecution is a FAR FAR FAR more pressing matter.

Most kids don't know a whole lot about other kids' parents.

Pretend for a second that I think that sexuality is a choice. Not that I encourage hatred for it. But how about this: given proven physiological factors, obesity is sometimes not a choice. Being born with certain aesthetically unpleasing features is not a choice. English being your second language was not a choice you made.

[Kamehameha34]

I don't think that's true. I think that it's more about politics than a real need. I would think that, given the results of bullying against other groups as cited (results being Colombine and Virginia Tech among a long list of others), that kind of persecution is a FAR FAR FAR more pressing matter.

I wouldn't be opposed to an overall "tolerance" day, but you can't compare a nationwide social climate to a pair of isolated incidents.

Most kids don't know a whole lot about other kids' parents.

They know enough to validate exposing them to basic tolerance.

Pretend for a second that I think that sexuality is a choice. Not that I encourage hatred for it. But how about this: given proven physiological factors, obesity is sometimes not a choice. Being born with certain aesthetically unpleasing features is not a choice. English being your second language was not a choice you made.

What's your point? I don't believe anyone should be scorned for those things, either.

[gw120]

I think it's great what this school is doing, they should make it a nation wide thing if we ever get around to a new president.

[phoenix_fire]

Quote by: Kamehameha34 I wouldn't be opposed to an overall "tolerance" day, but you can't compare a nationwide social climate to a pair of isolated incidents. They know enough to validate exposing them to basic tolerance. What's your point? I don't believe anyone should be scorned for those things, either.

Wanna bet? It's far more pervasive. And there are a lot of incidents of violence related to retaliation against bullying. I just named two of the most famous. Furthermore, it makes the point that the causes of these acts of violence are far more immediate than homophobia and produce much more compelling harms.

I was making the point that comparing homophobia to racism is a red herring.

[Kamehameha34]

Wanna bet? It's far more pervasive. And there are a lot of incidents of violence related to retaliation against bullying. I just named two of the most famous. Furthermore, it makes the point that the causes of these acts of violence are far more immediate than homophobia and produce much more compelling harms.

There is school time set aside to discuss bullying, at least in my school. It's called advisory.

I was making the point that comparing homophobia to racism is a red herring.

You're late. We've been through this.

[Slevin57]

I don't really like it when people go out of there way to have an Asian American Day, or an African American History month. It seems like to me these events foster more isolation of the group, not a universal understanding.

If homosexuality wants to be considered "part of society", they need to treat it like it's already part of society.

That video was not done very well. It's obvious they tried WAY to hard to make it appear that those kids already had an appreciation for Gay and Lesbian people.

I don't know how it is now, but I didn't even know what "Gay" really meant until 7th grade. Kind of ironic since it was hurled as an insult to me since 5th grade.

But it turns out, they were actually right! I'm not ashamed at all about being Gay, (Actually bisexual--but for all intents and purposes I'm both ). I don't see a need to wear a shirt that let's everyone know, nor do I feel the need to condemn people who think it's wrong.

I operate on the "He who starts an argument, always looses" principal. I'm fully prepared to defend homosexuality ethically, religiously, economically, and every other kind of -lly, if necessary.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, no matter how wrong it may be.

[tinybear]

Let the kids decide for themselves when they get older. Feeding them propaganda at such a young age should not be supported. That's what I think.