Why do people start smoking?

[Epistemologist]

Quote by: StrongHeartsWin Oh. I may understand now. Smoking is more important than living to smokers. If you want to do the thing that requires living in order to be able to do it, then wouldn`t you need to live? That would enable you to enjoy smoking without quiting. <scratches head> It`s a matter of something alright -- perhaps back bending and contortion of reason.

Maybe, but I think in most cases smokers are ambivalent about their priorities. It's just like in most cases of suicide, the person is ambivalent about living or dying. They're not resolute on doing either. And so, I think that most are lost in their lives to some degree, but of course this explanation doesn't fit for all people.

Thanks for all the responses, keep it up. Make sure to vote!

[CoffeeSaint]

Quote by: StrongHeartsWin How so?

The argument you were having about whether or not your choice -- made individually based on subjective reasons -- was the intelligent choice.

Quote by: StrongHeartsWin Did I say you should not smoke because of the reasons I gave for not doing so?

You said I was stupid if I didn't.

Quote by: StrongHeartsWin Then why enter a thread where personal questions have been asked?

I came to share my opinions because someone asked the question, and I have enough respect for my fellow posters to answer questions, when I can answer them honestly. Why else do any of us go into any of these threads? Why are you using your personal opinions to preach?

Quote by: StrongHeartsWin It is an opinion I don`t think is accurate. Many people are convinced to change their mind about a particular part of their life, be it a habit or not.

And I disagree with this. People do change their minds about their habits, and they do it based on several factors including changed circumstances, changed morality, new information, the wishes of others -- but they make up their own minds. They are not persuaded to change by argument. Not ever, in my experience.

Quote by: StrongHeartsWin Of course, people have to be receptive to the thought of convincing their minds and the overtures from ones who seek to do so. Whether they are ignorant on an issue or not could be a factor, but not absolutely. In this day and age a lot of people know a lot of information but choose to not incorporate that into their life:

Right: they have to be receptive. If they aren't, there is nothing that you or I can say that will change them -- and the fact that some people know better but do it anyway should prove that.

Quote by: StrongHeartsWin Mr. X, having graduated from a school as a dietician, but after 10 years quit the profession and let himself get fat, could be convinced by his wife and children to change his mind about living a sedentary and poor diet lifestyle and begin to eat right and exercise. See? One example offered up very quickly to show your premise false.

Yes, you're right. Because no fat person ever stayed fat when that person's family asked him or her to lose weight. :rolleyes:

If the fat man wants to get thin, he will get thin. The wishes of his family will influence that, but they will not determine it. I think you know that.

Quote by: StrongHeartsWin I expect you are relying on an unfounded and big expectation.

No, I'm relying on the fact that there are very few people that I love, and all of them are older than me.

Quote by: StrongHeartsWin How will you know when the "intervening years" are over to start smoking again in order to start 'improving' your quality of life then?

When I decide they are.

[The Bacon Guy]

Quote by: Stronghearts Oh. I may understand now. Smoking is more important than living to smokers.

Non-smokers don't live forever; everyone dies at some point. Smokers sacrifice a slight extension of their old age for a continued pleasure in their adult lives. Living as long as one can at all costs is not a priority for everyone.

Quote by: Stronghearts If you want to do the thing that requires living in order to be able to do it, then wouldn`t you need to live?

Smokers do live; just not as long as non-smokers. If you want to smoke, you can have the pleasure of doing so for sixty years, then die, or you can spend seventy years denying yourself the pleasure, then die.

Ten years of old age isn't worth sixty years of pleasure to some people.

[shawmutt]

Everyone has their vices, even highly intelligent people. A person can try to live life surrounded by styrofoam and doing their best to make sure they never get hurt, but what's the fun of life then?

I guess the whole "people smoke because they're dumb" falls flat with me because of the harassment I get from my family for commuting on my motorcycle. Apparently I'm dumb and am taking needless risk, especially (oh my in-laws love this) with my first kid on the way.

The logic that seems to be prevalent on this forum, by some people at least, is "if you don't make my life choices, you're dumb." To me that's poor logic.

[StrongHeartsWin]

Quote by: shawmutt Everyone has their vices, even highly intelligent people. A person can try to live life surrounded by styrofoam and doing their best to make sure they never get hurt, but what's the fun of life then?

Most people do not try and live their life surrounded by styrofoam. You are appealing to anomalies. Minimising or trying to eliminate high risk activities does not substantiate the thought of surrounding one`s self in styrofoam.

I guess the whole "people smoke because they're dumb" falls flat with me...

Where has someone argued "people smoke because they are dumb"?

Syntax in language causes an array of diffferent meanings. Read more carefully and comprehension of what is said becomes quite evident.

[StrongHeartsWin]

Quote by: The Bacon Guy Smokers sacrifice a slight extension of their old age for a continued pleasure in their adult lives.

What makes you think it is a slight extension? I`ve seen figures from 6 to 14 years. Besides, if someone dies from lung cancer when they are 55, or any age, how would we know they didn`t have another 20 years ahead of them?

Certainly there is not much continued pleasure when the ravages from smoking causes that earlier death begin to take hold. I would suggest that a continuance of smoking when it is affecting the quality of one`s life is more about addiction than the pleasures. Large numbers of surveys of smokers often show that a majority of them have at one time or another attempted to quit but could not succeed.

Living as long as one can at all costs is not a priority for everyone.

Agreed. But who conciously wants a diminished quality of life for the time they are here? The problem lies in instant gratification; hence young smokers before any ill affects come about from their habit, elevate instant gratification above a desire to not experience diminished quality of health, because diminished quality of health is not an issue at the moment facing them. When it is though, for example when doctors tell their patients you have the beginning stages of lung cancer, many try desperately to quit -- in effect subverting instant gratification.

Smokers do live; just not as long as non-smokers. If you want to smoke, you can have the pleasure of doing so for sixty years, then die, or you can spend seventy years denying yourself the pleasure, then die. Ten years of old age isn't worth sixty years of pleasure to some people.

You`re assuming those ten years have no cumulative plus advantages in pleasure over smoking. How many packs of pleasurably puffing away cigs are worth witnessing your grandson`s/daughters first steps, first baseball game, getting hugs from him/her etc...?

Since you have put a price on time with smoking, I guess you can give us an exchange rate for all the events that are possible in that time based on fags.

[The Bacon Guy]

Quote by: Stronghearts What makes you think it is a slight extension? I`ve seen figures from 6 to 14 years. Besides, if someone dies from lung cancer when they are 55, or any age, how would we know they didn`t have another 20 years ahead of them?

The average is ten years. Ten years of a seventy year life is slight.

Quote by: Stronghearts Agreed. But who conciously wants a diminished quality of life for the time they are here?

No one; that’s why they smoke.

Quote by: Stronghearts The problem lies in instant gratification; hence young smokers before any ill affects come about from their habit, elevate instant gratification above a desire to not experience diminished quality of health, because diminished quality of health is not an issue at the moment facing them. When it is though, for example when doctors tell their patients you have the beginning stages of lung cancer, many try desperately to quit -- in effect subverting instant gratification.

So some people try to quit. That doesn't mean that the benefits of smoking for all the years that they did weren't worth it; it just means that they no longer wish to continue their habit.

Quote by: Stronghearts You`re assuming those ten years have no cumulative plus advantages in pleasure over smoking. How many packs of pleasurably puffing away cigs are worth witnessing your grandson`s/daughters first steps, first baseball game, getting hugs from him/her etc...?

There is every chance that smoking means more to them than an increased chance of witnessing these moments.

[CoffeeSaint]

Quote by: The Bacon Guy There is every chance that smoking means more to them than an increased chance of witnessing these moments.

Just want to note: I have no kids, and won't be having any kids, which means of course that I will have no grandkids -- so seeing their first baseball game really means very little to me. :)

[Heather]

Quote by: shawmutt Everyone has their vices, even highly intelligent people. A person can try to live life surrounded by styrofoam and doing their best to make sure they never get hurt, but what's the fun of life then?

A great point indeed!

I smoke, and wanted to from a very young age. Am I stupid? I have no doubts that I am not.

I started smoking because of a desire to do so at a young age. That was the way of it, I liked it, and so I still do it. I know the risks, but I exercise my free choice to continue to do so.

[Epistemologist]

Eh, taken from a physical context, it's harmful, but often life doesn't revolve around just bodily well-being. To many smokers, however, smoking is a vice that they want to stop, prompting me to ask the question why they started.

[CoffeeSaint]

Quote by: Epistemologist Eh, taken from a physical context, it's harmful, but often life doesn't revolve around just bodily well-being. To many smokers, however, smoking is a vice that they want to stop, prompting me to ask the question why they started.

If I started because of peers who smoked, but I asked for the cigarettes without any specific pressure from them, what should I vote for? Peer pressure, or curiosity?

[StrongHeartsWin]

Quote by: Heather A great point indeed! I smoke, and wanted to from a very young age. Am I stupid? I have no doubts that I am not. I started smoking because of a desire to do so at a young age. That was the way of it, I liked it, and so I still do it. I know the risks, but I exercise my free choice to continue to do so.

Heather, does the emotional pain that your loved ones could experience by watching a horrible disease overcome a person they care deeply about factor into, or should it factor into, a desire to choose to do a high risk activity merely for enjoyment and one not out of nesessity? When does personal choice and enjoyment give way to looking out for others' hurts that our actions can carelessly cause?

I think it should factor into it because our lives are like shoulders rubbing up against one another. I also think that we invest ourselves in the lives of others and accept investment within our lives from others. My child has an interest in knowing that I am trying my best to be there to support/protect/nurture her as long as possible in the best way I can and know how to do from the previous years of wisdom and knowledge I have gained from life.

[shawmutt]

Heather, does the emotional pain that your loved ones could experience by watching a horrible disease overcome a person they care deeply about factor into, or should it factor into, a desire to choose to do a high risk activity merely for enjoyment and one not out of nesessity?

Life is a high risk activity, everyone dies from it. Not smoking doesn't exempt people from "a horrible disease", or some other dangerous end that may hurt those we love. By your logic, I am irresponsible for riding a motorcycle (an inherently dangerous hobby), and should give it up immediately if I really care about those I love.

I also think that we invest ourselves in the lives of others and accept investment within our lives from others.

What are you implying about smokers with that statement?

[another day]

i smoke because I like it.

screw health. health buffs just can't face the reality that they are going to die anyways. for all you know you could work out all the time, eat a perfect diet, not smoke drink or do drugs and still get a brain tumor or get hit by a bus when your 34.

And as south park puts it "and if it gives me cancer at 80 i dont care, who the hell wants to be ninety anyway?"

[Praxius]

There, I started in January, and I quit this week..... well I wouldn't say quit per say..... not quitting as society thinks of quitting..... I just don't buy packs of smokes now..... I may have one every so often, but it's minimal right now..... soon enough I might not even bother.... but smoking is not a priority in my life at this point..... and I still advocate the freedom to smoke and to do what you want to do with your life.

[Technosoul]

Quote by: StrongHeartsWin It stinks. It is rude to others. I want a better chance at not getting lung cancer. I respect others enough not to risk the chance of giving cancer to them from second hand smoke. I find burning something I just paid for which endangers my health quite odd. I like that my fingers are not yellow. I like that when I clean the inside walls of my house, yellow brownish tar doesn`t drip down. The same goes for the inside of my car. I like that little kids when near me don`t say, "you stink" (funny to watch the expression on smokers when they are hit with that). I like that my clothes don`t stink (though kids in grade school sometimes told me mine did (yes, my parents were heavy smokers). I would rather gain interest on that money invested rather than let it go up in smoke. The site of ashtrays with butts in them are rather unpleasant. I have no subliminal penile to mouth symbolism that must be satisfied (not that there is anything wrong with that [Seinfeld]). I value having a lesser chance at having erection dysfunction. Peer pressure never bothered me in a way making me want to try it. It sure is not cool. Don`t want to experience a hacking cough. Phlem coming up, with chunks of my lung is not attractive. I don`t want a premature death. I have self control and discipline. I have common sense. I'll add more reasons if I think of them.

This is a topic about why people start smoking rather then one about why people find smoking not to their liking.

[StrongHeartsWin]

You had better look at the OP a little closer:

And for non-smokers, why don't you do it?

I am answering that.

[StrongHeartsWin]

Quote by: another day And as south park puts it "and if it gives me cancer at 80 i dont care, who the hell wants to be ninety anyway?"

What if it gives you cancer at 60 and it is a slow slow eating cancer of pain and debilitation lasting 10 years until you are 70? Who the hell wants to be eighty anyway?

Oh, I forgot -- you do.

[Heather]

Quote by: StrongHeartsWin Heather, does the emotional pain that your loved ones could experience by watching a horrible disease overcome a person they care deeply about factor into, or should it factor into, a desire to choose to do a high risk activity merely for enjoyment and one not out of nesessity? When does personal choice and enjoyment give way to looking out for others' hurts that our actions can carelessly cause? I think it should factor into it because our lives are like shoulders rubbing up against one another. I also think that we invest ourselves in the lives of others and accept investment within our lives from others. My child has an interest in knowing that I am trying my best to be there to support/protect/nurture her as long as possible in the best way I can and know how to do from the previous years of wisdom and knowledge I have gained from life.

A good question, but my answer is no. If one chooses to engage in a high risk activity, it remains the choice and right of that person to do so. It is not my responsibility to look out for my family. (Do not mistake me here, as I do look out for them in many regards, however that is a moral issue, not a “rights” issue.)

I think that having a child is another issue entirely. If I were to have children, would I smoke during pregnancy? Certainly not. Would I smoke in the house? Certainly not. I think you’ll find that many parents are going towards smoking “on the porch” because they are more aware of the health risks to their children. Would I refrain from letting them know I smoke? Again, certainly not, but yes, I would educate them on why smoking can be unhealthy.

[StrongHeartsWin]

Quote by: Heather A good question, but my answer is no. If one chooses to engage in a high risk activity, it remains the choice and right of that person to do so. It is not my responsibility to look out for my family. (Do not mistake me here, as I do look out for them in many regards, however that is a moral issue, not a “rights” issue.)

Oh, I see. If your child were 23 and openly told you that he purposely drives at dangerous speeds without wearing a seatbelt, that would not register any protest from you and that you have no right to ask that he cease engaging in that high risk activity. I understand where you stand now.

... I would educate them[my children] on why smoking can be unhealthy.

Would you educate them that it can be unhealthy in some people, or would you educate them that smoking leads to bad/diminished health in many, if not the majority of those who do it? I guess I am asking you, would you just paint it as a 50/50 possibility of facing health damage from smoking. What kind of odds are you going to impart with the education on the choice of smoking and the long terms affects from it?