Why do people start smoking?

[Osborn F Enready]

Once again, it has NOTHING to do with SMART.

Its about choice, prefrence, values, ideals, goals, aspirations.

How old are you, and have you YET experienced old age?

[StrongHeartsWin]

Quote by: Osborn F Enready Once again, it has NOTHING to do with SMART. Its about choice, prefrence, values, ideals, goals, aspirations.

Yes, but not just those. Most people accept that there are smart and stupid decisions that are made in the course of one`s life. Haven`t you ever made any smart or stupid choices in your life?

How old are you, and have you YET experienced old age?

Irrelevant.

[Osborn F Enready]

SHW said: Yes, but not just those. Most people accept that there are smart and stupid decisions that are made in the course of one`s life. Haven`t you ever made any smart or stupid choices in your life?

Yes, both, and they are learning experiences.

What some people view as smart choices for themselves, are not choices that others view as smart for others, and vice versa.

If your goal is to live as long as possible, and with as little ill effects from outside factors as possible, it may be a smart choice for YOU.

Some people like pain, some don't. Some people like chochalate, some don't. It's not about smart for everyone, its about smart FOR YOU, and only YOU can decide that.

SHW said: Irrelevant.

Not really. You seem to be taking the position that life should be equally valuable to all, and I am saying I don't think you have the life experience necessary to accurately judge old age problems until you live them, if you are dedicated to that idea.

I am willing to live with the impacts of the choices I make. Are you?

I have watched many people near to me die, more than I like to remember. Many smoked, some didn't. I envied the latter years in niether the smokers, or non-smokers lives.

How about you?

[StrongHeartsWin]

Quote by: Osborn F Enready I don't think you have the life experience necessary to accurately judge old age problems until you live them, if you are dedicated to that idea.

Falacious bunk not resting on any reasoning.

A has not done B
Therefore A cannot know anything well enough about B to criticize B, and until A does experience B, A cannot impart any accurate advice to anyone about B.

Jane has not been a hooker.
Therefore Jane cannot know anything well enough about being a hooker to criticize such a profession, and until she has been a hooker, she cannot advise against it accurately to her daughter.

An appeal to the common sense of most people would laugh at your reasoning.

[RickSp]

In addition to being extremely addictive, nicotine feels good. Nicotine is calming and relaxing while not acting as a sedative. Nicotine also improves memory and may provide some protection against Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, and attention deficit hyperactivity disorder.

Researchers Investigate (Horrors!) Nicotine's Potential Benefits

Of course, the other side effect of smoking - death - cures all known illnesses as well.

[bishop]

Quote by: Isherwood That's very noble of you. Though I notice you're giving yourself plenty of time before making that commitment. Three weeks sort of lessens the nobility of the act.

heh.. i've never claimed to be a noble guy, although i've been called an aristocrat by some.

on top of work, school, the preggo wife and moving, i'd probably have a nervous breakdown if i tried to quit cold turkey then (and, i actually did attempt it a couple times)..

[Osborn F Enready]

SHW said: An appeal to the common sense of most people would laugh at your reasoning.

I don't think so since I clarified it with a direct tie to your idea of the value of life. Anyone who has met older people, who deal with problems on a daily basis and face imminent end, often don't value life as much as you claim is universal.

Would you condemn them for smoking also, if they chose to start?

Why, why not?

[tman_ndsu08]

Obviously they like dying earlier and wasting lots of money.

[StrongHeartsWin]

Quote by: Osborn F Enready Would you condemn them for smoking also, if they chose to start?

Condemn? Rather strong word.

It would not be a smart decision and could compound their health problems and leading to a lower quality of life. No doctor would suggest that it would be a smart decision for an elderly person to begin smoking, and would be more against it if that person were already experiencing bad health.

The problem, OFE, is you keep soap boxing right to choose or the personal satisfaction one gets out of it, but I have never questioned a right to choose or that people who smoke do not get satisfaction; what I have and do argue is that choosing to smoke is not a smart decision.

[CoffeeSaint]

Quote by: StrongHeartsWin Those who`d score low on it, sure wouldn`t want it to be. It would amaze me if you could find some doctors who would state otherwise, that choosing to not smoke is a smart decision. And actually, there have been some studies showing that smoking leads to diminished IQ. Yes, it is an individual choice, and some choose the choice that may lead to a lower IQ. Not a smart choice.

Choosing not to smoke is the smart choice if you want the things that you listed. Shall we go through them?
(Pardon me for not quoting every one of these; I'll just bullet your list and then reply to each)

*It stinks.
Sweating stinks worse. I'd rather smoke than run and make people smell my BO. I also don't smoke around other people, or force other people to sniff my cigarette breath.

*It is rude to others.
No it isn't, because I don't smoke around others. What I do in my private time and space is none of your concern.

*I want a better chance at not getting lung cancer.
I don't care. I'm going to die some day, it probably will be from cancer based on my family history, and if I'm like my grandfather who lived to 87 after smoking for 40 years, I'm good with that.

*I respect others enough not to risk the chance of giving cancer to them from second hand smoke.
Still don't smoke around other people.

*I find burning something I just paid for which endangers my health quite odd.
I find it relaxing and amusing.

*I like that my fingers are not yellow.
I wash my hands. Problem solved.

*I like that when I clean the inside walls of my house, yellow brownish tar doesn`t drip down. The same goes for the inside of my car.
I don't smoke indoors, or in my car, and what my dirt looks like is pretty meaningless to me -- dirt is dirt.

*I like that little kids when near me don`t say, "you stink" (funny to watch the expression on smokers when they are hit with that).
Hm. Never happened to me. I have had kids say I'm ugly and that I look like a girl. Must be why I don't like kids, huh?

*I like that my clothes don`t stink (though kids in grade school sometimes told me mine did (yes, my parents were heavy smokers).
Never bothered me. Don't care if it bother other people, though I do avoid close quarters with others.

*I would rather gain interest on that money invested rather than let it go up in smoke.
I would rather spend my money on something I enjoy than squirrel it away -- and leave it to someone after I die so they can spend it on something they enjoy. I'm selfish like that.

*The site of ashtrays with butts in them are rather unpleasant.
I find your avatar unpleasant. To each their own.

*I have no subliminal penile to mouth symbolism that must be satisfied (not that there is anything wrong with that [Seinfeld]).
Meh, I'll admit to a little homosexual curiosity, but for the most part, I really don't care what my subliminal urges are. I know that if I satisfy them, I feel happier. And I REALLY don't care if other people raise an eyebrow at my "oral fixation."


*I value having a lesser chance at having erection dysfunction.
Never been a problem, but I also don't judge my manhood or my humanity by how hard my penis is.

*Peer pressure never bothered me in a way making me want to try it.
Me neither. Still doesn't bother me into making me want to quit.

*It sure is not cool.
Sure it is. Oh wait -- maybe we have different ideas of cool?

*Don`t want to experience a hacking cough.
Neither do I, but then, I have to breathe the fumes from cars, and that makes me hack a lot more than smoking ever did.

*Phlem coming up, with chunks of my lung is not attractive.
If you're spitting up chunks of lung, you have serious problems. If it's just phlegm, well, I have allergies and I get colds sometimes -- avoiding phlegm is not really an option.

*I don`t want a premature death.
I don't fear death. My lack of stress will keep me alive longer, which will offset my smoking. See how well that works out?

*I have self control and discipline.
Me too. What's your point?

*I have common sense.
Again, me too. What's your point?

*I don`t want yellow brownish staiined teeth, or at least the better chance of not getting them.
I brush my teeth. If they turn brown anyway, I don't care -- to each their own.

*I want a better chance at not getting any of the nasty mouth cancers associated with oral tobacco use.
Still don't care. Cancer will get me eventually, and where it starts means nothing to me.

*I want a better chance at not getting gum disease and keeping my teeth for as long as possible.
I floss, too.

I'm amused that such a subjective, emotional, illogical series of personal decisions can possibly be seen as more intelligent than any other series of personal decisions. I do hope you enjoy your life, and I will thank you to let me enjoy mine.

[Osborn F Enready]

SHW said: Condemn? Rather strong word.

Force, rather stong tactic, but used by people trying to subvert others rights through legislation everyday, on point, smokers and smoking bans based on information that SHOULD be used to make personal choices, not national or state choices.

SHW said: It would not be a smart decision and could compound their health problems and leading to a lower quality of life.

Is that not their choice to lead a lower quality of life if they so choose, and what gives you the right to put a claim on "smart" for a personal choice?

SHW said: No doctor would suggest that it would be a smart decision for an elderly person to begin smoking, and would be more against it if that person were already experiencing bad health.

I don't consult doctors to TELL me what smart is, or isn't. I consult them to tell me about my state of health, and things that MAY CONCERN ME about my health.

Smart is not an issue here, for the 50th time, and I highly doubt you can accurately speak for more than yourself, let alone all doctors.

SHW said: The problem, OFE,

YOUR problem is, with OFE.

SHW said: is you keep soap boxing right to choose or the personal satisfaction one gets out of it, but I have never questioned a right to choose or that people who smoke do not get satisfaction; what I have and do argue is that choosing to smoke is not a smart decision.

You can't determine what is or is not smart, when it is a personal choice based on PERSONAL VALUES. Your values are yours, period.

[Osborn F Enready]

Coffee, that was a great post, and I fully agree with most every sentiment expounded on.

[StrongHeartsWin]

Quote by: Osborn F Enready ...and what gives you the right to put a claim on "smart" for a personal choice?

It is not so much a "right" as it is common sense when it comes to actions that are clearly known to be dangerous in general. Yes, I know there are those special few who can smoke like a chimney to 90 and experience no ill affects from it. However, I am not debating the anomalies.

Smoking is not a smart choice. And it is even less smart for anyone already experiencing health problems, or for instance a pregnant lady.

[StrongHeartsWin]

Quote by: CoffeeSaint Choosing not to smoke is the smart choice if you want the things that you listed. Shall we go through them? (Pardon me for not quoting every one of these; I'll just bullet your list and then reply to each) *It stinks. Sweating stinks worse. I'd rather smoke than run and make people smell my BO.

Amusing.

Don`t smoke, don`t run, and you will not be stinky from either. You could take a shower after running, too, and use some good body deoderant. Soap during the shower works well, too. And if you do quit smoking and work on your aerobic ability, you could run further, delaying the time when you start to sweat.

There you go, already more healthy and stinking much less.

[tman_ndsu08]

The health aspect of smoking isn't really what gets me.

Hell, almost everyone drinks and that's probably just as bad for you.



The thing that really gets me is how dirty smoking is.

Smoke gets everywhere and stains everything. Clothes smell like smoke. Hair smells like smoke. Carpet. The walls.

[Osborn F Enready]

SHW said: It is not so much a "right" as it is common sense when it comes to actions that are clearly known to be dangerous in general.

Then you are in denial.

People do dangerous things all the time and are considered smart for doing them, as well as some aren't. There is no lock on smart for individual choice, that doesn't reside within the indvidual making the choice.

SHW said: Yes, I know there are those special few who can smoke like a chimney to 90 and experience no ill affects from it. However, I am not debating the anomalies.

No, and you're really not debating either, which can be verified by the last several posts where you keep claiming there is a matter of intelligence involved when it comes to being able to choose what you like best for you, or the corrolary argument that keeps popping up as though I should CARE about how my choices affect others emotionally.

The point is, there is a FACTOR of people who don't experience bad effects from smoking, and that is all there need be to prove the testing is not TOTALLY conclusive to all people.

The point is, it is a personal choice and no one can make a "smarter choice" for an individual, than THAT individual when all circumstances are considered.

SHW said: Smoking is not a smart choice.

FOR YOU, as you have expressed repeatedly. NEXT?

SHW said: And it is even less smart for anyone already experiencing health problems, or for instance a pregnant lady.

But, still THEIR CHOICE.

Don't even try to further derail this thread with fetal rights.........WHICH DON'T EXIST, no matter how much you wish it so or plea and beg to appeal to peoples emotions......

[The Bacon Guy]

Stronghearts.

If you can't prove that a high chance of living longer is objectively more important than the buzz attained from a cigarette, the stupidity you attribute to smoking is unfounded. Simple as that.

[StrongHeartsWin]

Quote by: Osborn F Enready People do dangerous things all the time and are considered smart for doing them, as well as some aren't.

Stop stabbing in the air and list your examples so they can be addressed, or at least confirmed that they are analogical to doing what is considered smart.

The point is, there is a FACTOR of people who don't experience bad effects from smoking, and that is all there need be to prove the testing is not TOTALLY conclusive to all people.

Appeal to statistical anomallies.

Don't even try to further derail this thread with fetal rights....

Can you find any doctor of repute that would say it is smart for a lady to smoke while pregnant? I could find many who would say it were not a smart decision.

[Osborn F Enready]

SHW, Bacon said it quite frankly, and quite accurately.

Stop the circle of illogical fallacy you are perpetuating.

Bacon clearly grasped the point, so either you are being obtuse or clearly not using logic that is plainly written and evident.

Coffee also made the points quite clear, and yet you continue your circular logic, avoiding the issue, and wasting server space, time and peoples patience.

[StrongHeartsWin]

Quote by: The Bacon Guy Stronghearts. If you can't prove that a high chance of living longer is objectively more important than the buzz attained from a cigarette, the stupidity you attribute to smoking is unfounded. Simple as that.

Bacon, you, too are free to find some doctors on record stating that smoking is a smart choice.

If I were a pessimistic person, one viewing everything as futile and fatalistic, living in a world where I consider it a life of suffering, then the brief buzz from a cigerrette may be the better choice, and one to choose if it were a way to get me quicker to my death and out of this world of suffering. However, if I am living the general life of a Westerner in the U.S. and more or less not in a chronic state of suffering, a longer amount of time on this Earth to experience more of life would be the logical choice; see my children born, married, have children, grandchildren, buy them presents, take them to the park etc...

Objectively, I think most non-fatalistic persons living a general life not in a state of chronic suffering would smartly choose the life style that would allow them the more experiences of pleasures that come to us in life. A longer life would make for a higher chance of more of those experiences to come about.