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Kamehameha34 · Apr 24, 2007, 07:41 pm

In our society, there's this huge stigma attached to the male and female nether regions.

Why? Why must we accomodate people who are taught to be offended by these things, with laws proscribing things like "indecent exposure"?

Sappho · Apr 24, 2007, 07:51 pm

I have no issue with the penis or [the v-word: edited by admin for content filters]. However, both represent sexual acts, for which the apparently civilised majority believe there is a time a place. Then there is a small minority that think any time and any place is pretty good.

Majority Rules.

Scribbler1 · Apr 24, 2007, 08:00 pm

We must accommodate them because they were the people our whole society was based on. To condense it a bit, the Puritans were not a fun people, and since sex was fun, the very ACT of sex became "dirty" unless strictly performed for reproduction (they couldn't get around THAT part), and even then, Women were not supposed to enjoy it. I believe "endure" it would be a better term.
"Private parts" were to be covered up and never discussed. This of course led to more people becoming interested in sex and the asssociated accessories than would normally care about it. But that's a different issue.

The real answer is that we're NOT accommodating the puritans. In fact, we're slowly rebelling and normalizing the way people view the (horrors) naked body. But it IS a slow process and old habits die hard.
As an example, look at the bathing suits of 100 years ago and today. Or the Movies, or TV, or... Hell, just about anything ELSE where people are involved and the opportunity to show some skin is present.

Kamehameha34 · Apr 24, 2007, 08:04 pm

I'm sure there are several 'fun' things that the puritans didn't disapprove of. Why sex?

tman_ndsu08 · Apr 24, 2007, 08:15 pm

No matter how far back you go or what ethnicity or tribe you look at, humans seem to always, at a minimum, cover the genitals.

**Jack** · Apr 24, 2007, 08:16 pm

The supposed nakedness of Adam and Eve, which is "credited" with having introduced the concept of shame to humans, is usually cited as the reason Western cultures are so hung up over the naked body. It sure increased the popularity of fig leaves as an artistic expression.

Scribbler1 · Apr 24, 2007, 08:17 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Kamehameha34

I'm sure there are several 'fun' things that the puritans didn't disapprove of. Why sex?

Because, outside of strictly for reproduction, it was enjoyable as hell. Their view of the world was pretty much based on work, sleep, reproduction (plus raising the children) and worship. No drink, no dancing, no gambling, etc.
The closest analog I can think of would be the Mennonites.

tman_ndsu08 · Apr 24, 2007, 08:20 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Isherwood

The supposed nakedness of Adam and Eve, which is "credited" with having introduced the concept of shame to humans, is usually cited as the reason Western cultures are so hung up over the naked body.

But even look at African and South American tribes.

The women leave their breasts exposed but always cover the genitals.

Scribbler1 · Apr 24, 2007, 08:24 pm

Quote:

Quote by: tman_ndsu08

But even look at African and South American tribes.

The women leave their breasts exposed but always cover the genitals.

And they weren't Christian. I believe one of the first things the Christian Missionaries did was tell them to put some clothes on.

Besides, the OP was about OUR society, which directly implies the 20th century until today.

Kamehameha34 · Apr 24, 2007, 08:24 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Isherwood

The supposed nakedness of Adam and Eve, which is "credited" with having introduced the concept of shame to humans, is usually cited as the reason Western cultures are so hung up over the naked body. It sure increased the popularity of fig leaves as an artistic expression.

What about non-Christian cultures?

Quote:

Quote by: Scribbler1

Because, outside of strictly for reproduction, it was enjoyable as hell. Their view of the world was pretty much based on work, sleep, reproduction (plus raising the children) and worship. No drink, no dancing, no gambling, etc.
The closest analog I can think of would be the Mennonites.

Is it possible that the puritans were acting on an existing condition in world society? I'm asking this because of what someone noted above - that almost all world cultures have the same stigma attached to the genitals.

Kamehameha34 · Apr 24, 2007, 08:25 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Scribbler1

And they weren't Christian. Besides, the OP was about OUR society, which directly implies the 20th century until today.

"Our society" refers to all of recorded history. Sorry for not clarifying.

Scribbler1 · Apr 24, 2007, 08:31 pm

In that case, todays society bears little to no resemblance to a couple of thousand years ago which makes an answer difficult at best. A long time ago, it might simply have been simple protection, as running through the bushes naked is bound to cause a bit of discomfort. Then there's climate and other factors.

That, plus the damned thing is just plain ugly.

**Jack** · Apr 24, 2007, 08:39 pm

That's two of you who missed the restriction of my comment to "Western" cultures. If you want to discuss the rest of the world, be my guest. I can only comment on what I'm familiar with.

RickSp · Apr 24, 2007, 08:46 pm

I suspect that the penis was initially covered to avoid tangling with brambles, and then to avoid having to constantly compare oneself with others.

I can't understand why US society is so afraid of a woman's nipples. Every part of the breast can be shown except the nipple. Some might consider a penis threatening. But a nipple?

tman_ndsu08 · Apr 24, 2007, 09:00 pm

It should appropriate for a woman to be topless when it's appropriate for a man.

Once we get more exposure to breasts, they won't be such a taboo.

Kamehameha34 · Apr 24, 2007, 09:35 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Isherwood

That's two of you who missed the restriction of my comment to "Western" cultures. If you want to discuss the rest of the world, be my guest. I can only comment on what I'm familiar with.

I didn't miss it. I'm just asking for a relevant answer.

Quote:

Quote by: RickSp

I suspect that the penis was initially covered to avoid tangling with brambles, and then to avoid having to constantly compare oneself with others.

I can't understand why US society is so afraid of a woman's nipples. Every part of the breast can be shown except the nipple. Some might consider a penis threatening. But a nipple?

If it was covered to aboid having to constantly compare onself with others (assuming that wasn't a joke

), then why not cover every other organ on the body with intervarying size?

**Jason** · Apr 24, 2007, 11:35 pm

I'm not going to move this thread to Adult Topics as long as everyone stays on track, but for content filters' sake please try to restrict your language to the least offensive words possible, given the circumstances.

Sappho · Apr 25, 2007, 01:22 am

OMG! I've been edited for saying the 'V' word. Apparently, you can say Penis, but not the 'V' word. *shock* Why? I like sooooo.. don't understand it's not funny. I'm Australian, the 'V' word is totally acceptable as the complimentary of Penis.

What do you call the 'V' if not a 'V' when being respectful in America?

Man.... you guys worry about the Penis, when there are other more serious timidities to contend with.

**Jason** · Apr 25, 2007, 01:54 am

Sappho, that was unnecessary. Considering my above post, you do not need to make a spectacle. In considering my options, I decided not to move the thread to Adult Topics, but because many content filters find sexual words and then ban the website, I desired to at least limit the thread's debatably offensive diction to the word "penis". I modified a single word in your post and notified you about it, but then realized there were just too many other debatably offensive words in this thread to start editing them all. So I stopped.

Does everything have to be a fight?

DO NOT RESPOND IN THIS THREAD TO THE PRECEDING MESSAGE.
Please contact a member of the staff privately if you have any questions.

Slevin57 · Apr 25, 2007, 02:02 am

I think you can blame Queen Victoria as far as the western culture goes. The Victorian period brought about alot of the social phobias we have today.

I don't' personally find someone's sexual organs attractive or desirable to look at.

Apr 24, 2007, 07:41 pm	#1 (permalink) (top)
Kamehameha34 The dingos! Posts: 4,331	What about the penis is offensive? In our society, there's this huge stigma attached to the male and female nether regions. Why? Why must we accomodate people who are taught to be offended by these things, with laws proscribing things like "indecent exposure"?

Apr 24, 2007, 07:51 pm	#2 (permalink) (top)
Sappho Molten Ash Posts: 134	I have no issue with the penis or [the v-word: edited by admin for content filters]. However, both represent sexual acts, for which the apparently civilised majority believe there is a time a place. Then there is a small minority that think any time and any place is pretty good. Majority Rules. Last edited by Jason; Apr 24, 2007 at 11:33 pm. Reason: I won't move this thread to Adult Topics, but let's try and keep the language as non-offensive as possible (besides "penis")

Apr 24, 2007, 08:00 pm	#3 (permalink) (top)
Scribbler1 Skeptical Patriot Posts: 7,746	We must accommodate them because they were the people our whole society was based on. To condense it a bit, the Puritans were not a fun people, and since sex was fun, the very ACT of sex became "dirty" unless strictly performed for reproduction (they couldn't get around THAT part), and even then, Women were not supposed to enjoy it. I believe "endure" it would be a better term. "Private parts" were to be covered up and never discussed. This of course led to more people becoming interested in sex and the asssociated accessories than would normally care about it. But that's a different issue. The real answer is that we're NOT accommodating the puritans. In fact, we're slowly rebelling and normalizing the way people view the (horrors) naked body. But it IS a slow process and old habits die hard. As an example, look at the bathing suits of 100 years ago and today. Or the Movies, or TV, or... Hell, just about anything ELSE where people are involved and the opportunity to show some skin is present. Not a day goes by that I don't see something that reinforces my belief that people are idiots.

Apr 24, 2007, 08:16 pm	#6 (permalink) (top)
Jack formerly Isherwood Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 12,999	The supposed nakedness of Adam and Eve, which is "credited" with having introduced the concept of shame to humans, is usually cited as the reason Western cultures are so hung up over the naked body. It sure increased the popularity of fig leaves as an artistic expression. The Forum Rules Radical Atheist Heathen Queer Let's agree to respect each others views, no matter how wrong yours may be. (Ashleigh Brilliant)

Apr 24, 2007, 08:31 pm	#12 (permalink) (top)
Scribbler1 Skeptical Patriot Posts: 7,746	In that case, todays society bears little to no resemblance to a couple of thousand years ago which makes an answer difficult at best. A long time ago, it might simply have been simple protection, as running through the bushes naked is bound to cause a bit of discomfort. Then there's climate and other factors. That, plus the damned thing is just plain ugly. Not a day goes by that I don't see something that reinforces my belief that people are idiots.

Apr 24, 2007, 08:04 pm	#4 (permalink) (top)
Kamehameha34 The dingos! Posts: 4,331	I'm sure there are several 'fun' things that the puritans didn't disapprove of. Why sex?

Apr 24, 2007, 08:15 pm	#5 (permalink) (top)
tman_ndsu08 BANNED Posts: 5,021	No matter how far back you go or what ethnicity or tribe you look at, humans seem to always, at a minimum, cover the genitals.

Apr 24, 2007, 08:39 pm	#13 (permalink) (top)
Jack formerly Isherwood Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 12,999	That's two of you who missed the restriction of my comment to "Western" cultures. If you want to discuss the rest of the world, be my guest. I can only comment on what I'm familiar with. The Forum Rules Radical Atheist Heathen Queer Let's agree to respect each others views, no matter how wrong yours may be. (Ashleigh Brilliant)

Apr 24, 2007, 08:46 pm	#14 (permalink) (top)
RickSp Volcanic Erupter Posts: 9,491	I suspect that the penis was initially covered to avoid tangling with brambles, and then to avoid having to constantly compare oneself with others. I can't understand why US society is so afraid of a woman's nipples. Every part of the breast can be shown except the nipple. Some might consider a penis threatening. But a nipple? Rick "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Sinclair Lewis

Apr 24, 2007, 09:00 pm	#15 (permalink) (top)
tman_ndsu08 BANNED Posts: 5,021	It should appropriate for a woman to be topless when it's appropriate for a man. Once we get more exposure to breasts, they won't be such a taboo.

Apr 24, 2007, 11:35 pm	#17 (permalink) (top)
Jason hyggeligt life Location: Houston, TX Posts: 2,800	I'm not going to move this thread to Adult Topics as long as everyone stays on track, but for content filters' sake please try to restrict your language to the least offensive words possible, given the circumstances. Read the rules. Please show your appreciation by donating.

Apr 25, 2007, 01:22 am	#18 (permalink) (top)
Sappho Molten Ash Posts: 134	OMG! I've been edited for saying the 'V' word. Apparently, you can say Penis, but not the 'V' word. shock Why? I like sooooo.. don't understand it's not funny. I'm Australian, the 'V' word is totally acceptable as the complimentary of Penis. What do you call the 'V' if not a 'V' when being respectful in America? Man.... you guys worry about the Penis, when there are other more serious timidities to contend with.

Apr 25, 2007, 02:02 am	#20 (permalink) (top)
Slevin57 Igneous Magma Posts: 419	I think you can blame Queen Victoria as far as the western culture goes. The Victorian period brought about alot of the social phobias we have today. I don't' personally find someone's sexual organs attractive or desirable to look at. -Chris "I guess we are the people our parents warned us about."