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ZNFYRH · Apr 30, 2007, 03:45 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Osborn

So are you saying you are anti-individual rights concept?

Don't start with that bullshit in here, too.

I said that I have a problem with a use of the word "rights" in reference to things that we have the ability to do.

I have the ability to do almost anything, but I don't have the "right" to.

Some people have the ability to be parents, but I don't call that a "right" to be a parent.

Osborn F Enready · Apr 30, 2007, 05:34 pm

Quote:

ZNYFRH said:
Don't start with that bullshit in here, too.

I said that I have a problem with a use of the word "rights" in reference to things that we have the ability to do.

I have the ability to do almost anything, but I don't have the "right" to.

Some people have the ability to be parents, but I don't call that a "right" to be a parent.

So, you contest the idea and founding logic of individuial rights, and wish to emplace your own meanings and definitions?

ZNFYRH · Apr 30, 2007, 09:36 pm

No.

I want to know if we're talking about the ability to do something, or the legal support to do it.

Osborn F Enready · May 1, 2007, 03:02 am

Legal is ever changing, inherant rights that founded this nation are protected from legal infringement.

Bad laws can and have been passed. Being a law means nothing without the Constitutional derivation of power, regardless of public sanction, appeal or demands. The entire purpose of individual rights is to protect THE MINORITY.

Didn't they teach this in school?

ZNFYRH · May 1, 2007, 07:08 am

Holy crap... this sidetracked piece of crap is taking too long.

It's a simple question that doesn't require soapboxing...

Are we talking about "rights" to mean ability or legally?

iclaudius · May 2, 2007, 01:32 am

Yeah, great. So you're saying it's a "right" to have kids, but not to take parental control of them. Right?

So who gets to be a parent, then?

ZNFYRH · May 2, 2007, 07:58 am

Since you don't seem to be understanding my question, I'll put it this way.

No one can stop you from having sex and getting someone pregnant and having a kid.

Once you've done so, however, you are the default authority figure and person responsible for that child.

As a parent, you only need to afford them the necessary ability to be educated and grow up to be a functioning and capable adult. As long as you continue to do so, no agency can interfere.

That is your responsibility as a parent. You can do it however you see fit, but the gov't in which you live, especially if you want to be given advantages and concessions based on your status as a parent, sets the bar for that level of responsibility.

Osborn F Enready · May 2, 2007, 01:49 pm

Quote:

ZNYFRH said:
That is your responsibility as a parent. You can do it however you see fit, but the gov't in which you live, especially if you want to be given advantages and concessions based on your status as a parent, sets the bar for that level of responsibility.

I agree, but you neglect one important thing.

The government is only given legal power to set that bar, within the bounds of individual rights, and not ACROSS or ABRIDGING them, using law, no matter what the "emotional based" or "moral based" argument is.

Quote:

iclaudius said:
Yeah, great. So you're saying it's a "right" to have kids, but not to take parental control of them. Right?

I am saying its a right to have a child with another person of voluntary conscent, and you have the right to raise those kids as you see fit as parents. The only time that issue of what is "right and wrong" comes into play is if the childs legal, partial rights are infringed and the child, or a person in representation of the child (another family member, neighbor, etc) makes legal argument of this in court, via the RIGHT to trial.

Quote:

iclaudius said:
So who gets to be a parent, then?

All people who exercise their right to form free-will collectives (mother-father, husband-wife, boyfriend-girlfriend, etc) and conceive a child of their own actions, and responsibly protect the rights of that child while raising and educating said child.

ZNFYRH · May 2, 2007, 09:04 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Osborn

I agree, but you neglect one important thing.

The government is only given legal power to set that bar, within the bounds of individual rights, and not ACROSS or ABRIDGING them, using law, no matter what the "emotional based" or "moral based" argument is.

I neglected to add that part; I thought it was understood.

I see that bar relating to issues of health. Physical, mental (schooling) and spiritual (psychological abuse).

May 1, 2007, 03:02 am	#84 (permalink) (top)
Osborn F Enready Principled Observer Location: Toledo, Ohio Posts: 13,873	Legal is ever changing, inherant rights that founded this nation are protected from legal infringement. Bad laws can and have been passed. Being a law means nothing without the Constitutional derivation of power, regardless of public sanction, appeal or demands. The entire purpose of individual rights is to protect THE MINORITY. Didn't they teach this in school? Petition of Redress of Grievances: http://www.givemeliberty.org/default.htm Canadian Lawsuit Against Their National Banks: http://www.freewebs.com/classaction/ Osborn F. Enready

Apr 30, 2007, 09:36 pm	#83 (permalink) (top)
ZNFYRH Volcanic Erupter Posts: 4,375	No. I want to know if we're talking about the ability to do something, or the legal support to do it.

May 1, 2007, 07:08 am	#85 (permalink) (top)
ZNFYRH Volcanic Erupter Posts: 4,375	Holy crap... this sidetracked piece of crap is taking too long. It's a simple question that doesn't require soapboxing... Are we talking about "rights" to mean ability or legally?

May 2, 2007, 01:32 am	#86 (permalink) (top)
iclaudius Igneous Magma Posts: 332	Yeah, great. So you're saying it's a "right" to have kids, but not to take parental control of them. Right? So who gets to be a parent, then?

May 2, 2007, 07:58 am	#87 (permalink) (top)
ZNFYRH Volcanic Erupter Posts: 4,375	Since you don't seem to be understanding my question, I'll put it this way. No one can stop you from having sex and getting someone pregnant and having a kid. Once you've done so, however, you are the default authority figure and person responsible for that child. As a parent, you only need to afford them the necessary ability to be educated and grow up to be a functioning and capable adult. As long as you continue to do so, no agency can interfere. That is your responsibility as a parent. You can do it however you see fit, but the gov't in which you live, especially if you want to be given advantages and concessions based on your status as a parent, sets the bar for that level of responsibility.