Volconvo is a debate forum for the discussion of political, religious, and news-based topics.

BionicArmofDeth · Apr 21, 2007, 02:40 pm

This is going to be more of a discussion than a debate... I think that what should be considered "subliminal" in advertisements is straight up in the open, not hidden in the audio backwards or in frames. For example in an advertisement for Panasonic Plasma TV during a baseball game, the commercial started with audio of a large crowd, meaning that if anyone is looking away from the TV at that second you will look because you will think that the game has started back up. Its these little tricks they use to sell their product. I compare it to the appearance of fruits or the way animals court one another. Another rather haunting one was this ad I saw in a magazine for AIDS medicine. I will try to scan it and put it up online. It pictured a middle aged black woman(who one automatically presumes is infected with HIV) from behind. She is sitting on a park bench facing the river. She is also looking to the left. The thing is, she is NOT looking at the river at all, something they did on purpose. Also, since she is pictured from behind, it makes it seem to the reader as if she is disconnected from herself, some sort of deep sadness. It reminds me of a sad and meek little dog whos scared of some bigger animal behind them. My guess is that whoever looks at this ad(for the brief initial three seconds) you will automatically either relate to it or not. Also, I dont think any of it is subliminal, but it is rather manipulative. Another favorite of mine is the caveman Geico commercials. Strangely enough one always seems to sympathize with the caveman(who lives in a strange and confusing new world). Advertising fascinates me. While ads of today are getting more and more complex, i always enjoy looking at ads from the past, which were more crude in their delivery(I once saw an obvious skull painted on the hair of Lucy from I love lucy in an ad for Lucy cigarettes). Anyone else share this interest?

BionicArmofDeth · Apr 21, 2007, 02:43 pm

Oops. wrong section.

Scribbler1 · Apr 21, 2007, 06:56 pm

Whatever works. Subliminal motivation, humor, shock value and repetition ALL work when handled properly. Of course, all that money seems wasted when you have people like yourself who figure out the trick.

I notice this stuff all the time, much to my Wife's endless irritation. Like celebrities who tout medications, but are careful to not say THEY take it. "My friend told me this stuff is the greatest." etc.

And does anybody really think they will even FIND a totally empty scenic road, much less drive on it, just because they bought a certain kind of car?

As for this thread being in the wrong area, I'd shoot a PM to a mod and ask if they would move it. Isherwood would be my suggestion, as he seems to be online the most.

BionicArmofDeth · Apr 21, 2007, 10:11 pm

I might not have figured anything out since i could just be overanalyzing things.
I always wonder what cues people look for when they need a certain thing, like food. They are mostly visual and olfactory I assume.
The representation of a product must stem from people's advice on what to eat. If the person representing the product is healthy and vigorous, then the listener will think that they will achieve the representatives health.

Scribbler1 · Apr 21, 2007, 10:29 pm

Quote:

Quote by: BionicArmofDeth

I might not have figured anything out since i could just be overanalyzing things.
I always wonder what cues people look for when they need a certain thing, like food. They are mostly visual and olfactory I assume.

You're not over analyzing anything. There is an entire science around the ad industry as regards motivating people to buy. Very little happens by accident with these people.

Quote:

The representation of a product must stem from people's advice on what to eat. If the person representing the product is healthy and vigorous, then the listener will think that they will achieve the representatives health.

Or a certain liquor will make you a hit with the ladies. Or a certain pickup truck will make you a macho cowboy, much like Marlboros made you an equally macho cowboy.
It all comes down to suggestion.

BTW, did you PM a mod to move this thread?

BionicArmofDeth · Apr 21, 2007, 11:17 pm

No I have not asked them to move it.

Scribbler1 · Apr 22, 2007, 12:42 am

As I said, PM one of the mods and they'll do it for you. It's not that big a deal, but this thread is definitely in the wrong place. Until then, I'm going to back off on posting here.

Compugasm · Apr 22, 2007, 02:58 am

I guess what I find most interesting about commercials in general, is the staggering number of things there are for sale. Like, gell shoe implants. Are you gellin Ellen McMellen? All the time, money, and effort it takes to make the commercial, and the factories, and they really sell that many to cover the cost? There are that many people wandering through stores, actually looking to buy these things?

I made a commercial in College for Spishaks Pickeled Herring as a joke, because you never see pickeled herring advertised (I think that was a Seinfeld joke).

Actually BionicArm, I think I share that same odd facination. I created this ad, and paid to have it run in a comic book before. It's based off some old GE ad from the 40's.

Technosoul · Apr 22, 2007, 04:32 am

Ads often tap into religious ideas or a philosophy that is useful in selling a product. In fact religion is one of the biggest Ad events in history and their methods are often employed for selling everything from cars to milk.
That is because reviewing how religion gets a message out teaches the advertisers a lot about the human phychology involved in selling ideas.

I am noting this so that this thread is not totally out of place here and so that perhaps Scribbler1 can relate to this topic from that perspective. But if it is moved that is also okay and the monitors will do so if they feel that is the best thing to do anyway.

Now one car ad show a driver pulling out of congested traffic where he finds an open highway of freedom. Freedom is something we yearn for physically, poltically, religiously, and in our dreams. So they are suggestng that a new car will be the way to fullfill those dreams. But that is pretty much a deception because in order to keep up those new car payments on time you will be trapped at keeping your job and driving those city streets to get to work and so that "dream" will also get stuck in that traffic jam. So they are more or less promising us "heaven on four wheels" and competing with religion as well as poltical philosophy for our attention.

The other ad might make people pity the woman who is all alone on that park bench, in front of her is the the river which might symbolized death and eternity, people often think about going to the river to die out of depression, to jump into the water to drown away thier hoplessness, or by jumping off the bridge into the river below. Yet, her face is turned a little to the left side, does she hear someone coming to her rescue from behind? Does she still hear a whisper of hope even through she has turned her back on that possabity? Now the viewer will cry and feel greater compassion for the poor lady in the picture and will shout out " yes, I will help her and I will send money to fight AIDs"..... "Can you hear me - help is on it's way". (whew, praise the Lord).

I did not see the Ad so I am just going by your discription.

Indeed a person might want to help someone dieing on a cross and AIDs is a heavy cross to bear for a little old lady, all alone and by her self.

So here we can notice the religious symbols used for promoting the mission to fight AIDs in that Ad. And we can see how the phychology of religion can merge into the world of advertising, even when the Ads promote materalistic products.

IBut religion is not the only thing the use to motivate a sale. The odd thing is that many Ads do not sell the product in the Ad but instead they are "dream merchants". The sneaky part is they present the Ad in such a way that people will subconsously believe that the product will make their dreams come true.

Dreams such as.

Gaining a sense of pride or self-empowerment.
Being the most popular.
Escaping from all your problems (freedom).
Gaining the respect of others.
Attaining greater status or wealth.
Becoming happy or healthy.
Getting ahead in life.
Becoming sexy or attactive looking.
Becoming younger.
Getting high.
Gaining the status of manhood or womanhood.
Being smart and saving money.
Gaining peace, harmony, love, and security.

Now indeed, some products can aid one in reaching some of those goals, but many just sell you the promise that those dreams can be reached when in fact the product realistically cannot deliver those results.

"If you give your kids breakfast using brand X you will be a good mother and will have done your duty as a good parent". Nothing about the product but only about the dream to be a good parent to your kids. The same company also makes brands Y, z, and B. but they are marketed to another kind of "hope". And the all contain more or less the same content.

Of course an Ad can tap into emotions, fantasy wishes, and vanity.

Reward your self because you are worth it. At least we believe our ego should be praised and so we might buy a product that offfers to cator to that need. That way they provide us with a logical reason to justify wasting away our money on some useless product for pampering our vanity.

More later.

BionicArmofDeth · Apr 22, 2007, 07:30 pm

I agree, Technosoul. I think religion is a big seeling point because of the ever present fear of death. This makes people scramble for rescuing. Its funny you say that the river represents death because I was just thinking the same today as I was walking, lost in thought. It could be that she is in some sort of conflict with this reality.

Advertising companies have this thing where they list the needs and wants of a human. In order they are Physiological, Security, Social needs, Esteem, and Self-Actualization.

Adding to the ego statement, I think this is why we have so many custom tailored things now, like create your own player on a basketball game.I wonder what started this trend? Why have people felt that they are just numbers or something? Is the culture to blame? I dont think ads are "evil"; but they do sometimes perpetuate certain myths or stereotypes.

Scribbler1 · Apr 22, 2007, 08:16 pm

Stereotypes are not the exclusive domain of the ad agencies. Have you ever seen more than one sitcom that involves a family where the husband/father wasn't a complete moron and the wife needs to bail him out of situations time after time?

Technosoul · Apr 22, 2007, 08:48 pm

Quote:

Quote by: BionicArmofDeth

I agree, Technosoul. I think religion is a big seeling point because of the ever present fear of death. This makes people scramble for rescuing. Its funny you say that the river represents death because I was just thinking the same today as I was walking, lost in thought. It could be that she is in some sort of conflict with this reality.

Advertising companies have this thing where they list the needs and wants of a human. In order they are Physiological, Security, Social needs, Esteem, and Self-Actualization.

Adding to the ego statement, I think this is why we have so many custom tailored things now, like create your own player on a basketball game.I wonder what started this trend? Why have people felt that they are just numbers or something? Is the culture to blame? I dont think ads are "evil"; but they do sometimes perpetuate certain myths or stereotypes.

I do not know about evil but they sometimes can be deceptive or just a big fat lie. They might not come right out and make a flat claim but the illustrations can cause one to imagine some particular result. And yet it is not viewed as false advertising because it was not their claim but only your imagination that interpreted the Ad as such. Although their research gave them the knowledge that you might imagine things from certain tigger words or symbols.

I guess I should watch some TV and then yak about some of the Ads being shown of late.

In a lot of blues songs they sing about "goin' to the river" in order to end their life. Even in the famous "Easy Rider" song. So it has become sort of common denominator for making that connection.

I will be back later when I get inspired with another insight on this topic.

Apr 21, 2007, 02:40 pm	#1 (permalink) (top)
BionicArmofDeth Molten Ash Posts: 53	ads This is going to be more of a discussion than a debate... I think that what should be considered "subliminal" in advertisements is straight up in the open, not hidden in the audio backwards or in frames. For example in an advertisement for Panasonic Plasma TV during a baseball game, the commercial started with audio of a large crowd, meaning that if anyone is looking away from the TV at that second you will look because you will think that the game has started back up. Its these little tricks they use to sell their product. I compare it to the appearance of fruits or the way animals court one another. Another rather haunting one was this ad I saw in a magazine for AIDS medicine. I will try to scan it and put it up online. It pictured a middle aged black woman(who one automatically presumes is infected with HIV) from behind. She is sitting on a park bench facing the river. She is also looking to the left. The thing is, she is NOT looking at the river at all, something they did on purpose. Also, since she is pictured from behind, it makes it seem to the reader as if she is disconnected from herself, some sort of deep sadness. It reminds me of a sad and meek little dog whos scared of some bigger animal behind them. My guess is that whoever looks at this ad(for the brief initial three seconds) you will automatically either relate to it or not. Also, I dont think any of it is subliminal, but it is rather manipulative. Another favorite of mine is the caveman Geico commercials. Strangely enough one always seems to sympathize with the caveman(who lives in a strange and confusing new world). Advertising fascinates me. While ads of today are getting more and more complex, i always enjoy looking at ads from the past, which were more crude in their delivery(I once saw an obvious skull painted on the hair of Lucy from I love lucy in an ad for Lucy cigarettes). Anyone else share this interest?

Apr 21, 2007, 06:56 pm	#3 (permalink) (top)
Scribbler1 Skeptical Patriot Posts: 7,746	Whatever works. Subliminal motivation, humor, shock value and repetition ALL work when handled properly. Of course, all that money seems wasted when you have people like yourself who figure out the trick. I notice this stuff all the time, much to my Wife's endless irritation. Like celebrities who tout medications, but are careful to not say THEY take it. "My friend told me this stuff is the greatest." etc. And does anybody really think they will even FIND a totally empty scenic road, much less drive on it, just because they bought a certain kind of car? As for this thread being in the wrong area, I'd shoot a PM to a mod and ask if they would move it. Isherwood would be my suggestion, as he seems to be online the most. Not a day goes by that I don't see something that reinforces my belief that people are idiots.

Apr 22, 2007, 12:42 am	#7 (permalink) (top)
Scribbler1 Skeptical Patriot Posts: 7,746	As I said, PM one of the mods and they'll do it for you. It's not that big a deal, but this thread is definitely in the wrong place. Until then, I'm going to back off on posting here. Not a day goes by that I don't see something that reinforces my belief that people are idiots.

Apr 22, 2007, 02:58 am	#8 (permalink) (top)
Compugasm Son of X51 Location: San Diego Posts: 3,718	I guess what I find most interesting about commercials in general, is the staggering number of things there are for sale. Like, gell shoe implants. Are you gellin Ellen McMellen? All the time, money, and effort it takes to make the commercial, and the factories, and they really sell that many to cover the cost? There are that many people wandering through stores, actually looking to buy these things? I made a commercial in College for Spishaks Pickeled Herring as a joke, because you never see pickeled herring advertised (I think that was a Seinfeld joke). Actually BionicArm, I think I share that same odd facination. I created this ad, and paid to have it run in a comic book before. It's based off some old GE ad from the 40's. I'd like to thank Charlie Hodge, bringing me scarves and water.

Apr 22, 2007, 08:16 pm	#11 (permalink) (top)
Scribbler1 Skeptical Patriot Posts: 7,746	Stereotypes are not the exclusive domain of the ad agencies. Have you ever seen more than one sitcom that involves a family where the husband/father wasn't a complete moron and the wife needs to bail him out of situations time after time? Not a day goes by that I don't see something that reinforces my belief that people are idiots.

Apr 21, 2007, 02:43 pm	#2 (permalink) (top)
BionicArmofDeth Molten Ash Posts: 53	Oops. wrong section.

Apr 21, 2007, 10:11 pm	#4 (permalink) (top)
BionicArmofDeth Molten Ash Posts: 53	I might not have figured anything out since i could just be overanalyzing things. I always wonder what cues people look for when they need a certain thing, like food. They are mostly visual and olfactory I assume. The representation of a product must stem from people's advice on what to eat. If the person representing the product is healthy and vigorous, then the listener will think that they will achieve the representatives health.

Apr 21, 2007, 11:17 pm	#6 (permalink) (top)
BionicArmofDeth Molten Ash Posts: 53	No I have not asked them to move it.

Apr 22, 2007, 04:32 am	#9 (permalink) (top)
Technosoul Volcanic Erupter Posts: 8,663	Ads often tap into religious ideas or a philosophy that is useful in selling a product. In fact religion is one of the biggest Ad events in history and their methods are often employed for selling everything from cars to milk. That is because reviewing how religion gets a message out teaches the advertisers a lot about the human phychology involved in selling ideas. I am noting this so that this thread is not totally out of place here and so that perhaps Scribbler1 can relate to this topic from that perspective. But if it is moved that is also okay and the monitors will do so if they feel that is the best thing to do anyway. Now one car ad show a driver pulling out of congested traffic where he finds an open highway of freedom. Freedom is something we yearn for physically, poltically, religiously, and in our dreams. So they are suggestng that a new car will be the way to fullfill those dreams. But that is pretty much a deception because in order to keep up those new car payments on time you will be trapped at keeping your job and driving those city streets to get to work and so that "dream" will also get stuck in that traffic jam. So they are more or less promising us "heaven on four wheels" and competing with religion as well as poltical philosophy for our attention. The other ad might make people pity the woman who is all alone on that park bench, in front of her is the the river which might symbolized death and eternity, people often think about going to the river to die out of depression, to jump into the water to drown away thier hoplessness, or by jumping off the bridge into the river below. Yet, her face is turned a little to the left side, does she hear someone coming to her rescue from behind? Does she still hear a whisper of hope even through she has turned her back on that possabity? Now the viewer will cry and feel greater compassion for the poor lady in the picture and will shout out " yes, I will help her and I will send money to fight AIDs"..... "Can you hear me - help is on it's way". (whew, praise the Lord). I did not see the Ad so I am just going by your discription. Indeed a person might want to help someone dieing on a cross and AIDs is a heavy cross to bear for a little old lady, all alone and by her self. So here we can notice the religious symbols used for promoting the mission to fight AIDs in that Ad. And we can see how the phychology of religion can merge into the world of advertising, even when the Ads promote materalistic products. IBut religion is not the only thing the use to motivate a sale. The odd thing is that many Ads do not sell the product in the Ad but instead they are "dream merchants". The sneaky part is they present the Ad in such a way that people will subconsously believe that the product will make their dreams come true. Dreams such as. Gaining a sense of pride or self-empowerment. Being the most popular. Escaping from all your problems (freedom). Gaining the respect of others. Attaining greater status or wealth. Becoming happy or healthy. Getting ahead in life. Becoming sexy or attactive looking. Becoming younger. Getting high. Gaining the status of manhood or womanhood. Being smart and saving money. Gaining peace, harmony, love, and security. Now indeed, some products can aid one in reaching some of those goals, but many just sell you the promise that those dreams can be reached when in fact the product realistically cannot deliver those results. "If you give your kids breakfast using brand X you will be a good mother and will have done your duty as a good parent". Nothing about the product but only about the dream to be a good parent to your kids. The same company also makes brands Y, z, and B. but they are marketed to another kind of "hope". And the all contain more or less the same content. Of course an Ad can tap into emotions, fantasy wishes, and vanity. Reward your self because you are worth it. At least we believe our ego should be praised and so we might buy a product that offfers to cator to that need. That way they provide us with a logical reason to justify wasting away our money on some useless product for pampering our vanity. More later.

Apr 22, 2007, 07:30 pm	#10 (permalink) (top)
BionicArmofDeth Molten Ash Posts: 53	I agree, Technosoul. I think religion is a big seeling point because of the ever present fear of death. This makes people scramble for rescuing. Its funny you say that the river represents death because I was just thinking the same today as I was walking, lost in thought. It could be that she is in some sort of conflict with this reality. Advertising companies have this thing where they list the needs and wants of a human. In order they are Physiological, Security, Social needs, Esteem, and Self-Actualization. Adding to the ego statement, I think this is why we have so many custom tailored things now, like create your own player on a basketball game.I wonder what started this trend? Why have people felt that they are just numbers or something? Is the culture to blame? I dont think ads are "evil"; but they do sometimes perpetuate certain myths or stereotypes.