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fushigi · Apr 12, 2007, 04:57 am

Story.

Hey, if the kid's out of control, and you can't contact the parents, what else are you supposed to do in our litigious society today? It's not like you can defend yourself without being accused of child abuse.

Quote:

On March 28, Desre'e Watson, a 6-year-old kindergarten student at Avon Elementary School, had a bad morning. She cried. She wailed. She kicked. She scratched. She hit a teacher. That's what the police say, anyway.

The police? That's right. To subdue the unruly kindergartner, school officials phoned Avon Park's police department ("committed to enhancing the 'Quality of Life' of the community"). When the cops arrived, young Desre'e attempted to resist arrest by crawling under a table. But Avon Park's finest pulled her out, cuffed her, put her in a police cruiser, drove her to the county jail, and charged this 50-pound menace with a felony and two misdemeanors. The police report is below.

"When there is an outburst of violence," Police Chief Frank Mercurio told a local news station, "we have a duty to protect and make that school a safe environment for the students, staff and faculty. That's why, at this point, the person was arrested regardless what the age." Let's hope his message gets across to those brats in the neonatal wards.

tinybear · Apr 12, 2007, 06:13 am

So what if it was a 6-year old? Everybody capable of forming criminal intent must abide by the law or suffer the consequences. Before you start yelling about the 'rights' of that juvenile felon, think about the rights of those she violated.

fushigi · Apr 12, 2007, 06:18 am

Wait, who are you debating with?

tinybear · Apr 12, 2007, 07:30 am

The author of that sarcastic article.

Marilyn Monroe · Apr 12, 2007, 07:36 am

The kid got what she deserved. Whatever problems she may have is not for the police to decide at that moment. They are there to maintain the peace.

Autolykos · Apr 12, 2007, 08:12 am

Quote:

Quote by: Marilyn Monroe

The kid got what she deserved. Whatever problems she may have is not for the police to decide at that moment. They are there to maintain the peace.

You're kidding me, right? :eek:

/tinybear

- Rob

CoffeeSaint · Apr 12, 2007, 09:19 am

No, the police should not have been called. Yes, the school officials dropped the ball. Yes, they should have been able to control her, or at least separate her from the normal flow of school, regardless of what kind of tantrum she was throwing -- put her in the boiler room with a deaf janitor to watch over her, let her scream herself hoarse, whatever.

Anything else to debate?

Personally I would have tased the little snot.

Praxius · Apr 12, 2007, 11:38 am

Quote:

Quote by: CoffeeSaint

No, the police should not have been called. Yes, the school officials dropped the ball. Yes, they should have been able to control her, or at least separate her from the normal flow of school, regardless of what kind of tantrum she was throwing -- put her in the boiler room with a deaf janitor to watch over her, let her scream herself hoarse, whatever.

Anything else to debate?

Personally I would have tased the little snot.

That's the problem, the kid was attacking the teachers, the students, etc.... how do you supose they grab this kid and stick her in a boiler room without getting attacked and clawed? Then if they get her there, then they have to worry about the BS from the parents and sueing them for placing their child in a location of the school not qualified, sanitary or properly secured for minors....

Chances are they already had some situations with this kid in the past and the parents didn't do much to improve the situation.

I too would have called the cops on the kid.... scare some shit into them, and if that doesn't work, then they get arrested, thrown in the back of the car and charged..... and then the parents can't sue the school, but the police, but that wouldn't work because they did everything by the book.

If you get the cops to do the dirty work, then you cover your ass.

Kamehameha34 · Apr 12, 2007, 01:16 pm

Excusing children from the law only nurtures an 'invincibility' complex.

That, and the kid sounds like a brat.

tinybear · Apr 12, 2007, 01:38 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Autolykos

/tinybear

- Rob

Yes Rob?

DEEJ85 · Apr 12, 2007, 02:19 pm

I heard a quote from somewhere, that Toddlers are the most violent group there is.

If you start charging children that young for crimes such as assault and other simple crimes, then the prisons will be full of small children.

Who hasn't as a child of around 6 ever got in a little squabble or hit someone?
If you treat children like adults, they would huge criminal records.

tinybear · Apr 12, 2007, 02:29 pm

On the other hand if you let them get away with serious misbehavior, they'll end up as criminals when they grow up.

nm420 · Apr 12, 2007, 02:34 pm

Quote:

Quote by: tinybear

So what if it was a 6-year old? Everybody capable of forming criminal intent must abide by the law or suffer the consequences. Before you start yelling about the 'rights' of that juvenile felon, think about the rights of those she violated.

Are 6-year-olds capable of forming criminal intent? Are they even that aware of the law? Surely by that age they are aware of the consequences of "misbehaving", but I'm sure they don't equate it with sitting in a jail cell.

CoffeeSaint · Apr 12, 2007, 04:13 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Praxius

That's the problem, the kid was attacking the teachers, the students, etc.... how do you supose they grab this kid and stick her in a boiler room without getting attacked and clawed? Then if they get her there, then they have to worry about the BS from the parents and sueing them for placing their child in a location of the school not qualified, sanitary or properly secured for minors....

So they get attacked and clawed. It's a six-year-old. A modicum of damage is a risk of the job, and I don't think a child that small could do anything very serious without weaponry. Since the story says they ended up carrying her to the office, why not then carry her down to the boiler room? The parents want to sue? Good luck, considering how that child was acting. As long as there's an adult still in the room with her (the deaf janitor) I don't think the school could be held responsible. Sure, yes, maybe they could because anyone can sue anyone and get away with it, but that doesn't mean the school should be calling the cops. I think that was an overreaction, and not an effective one: whatever was wrong with this kid originally, once the cop got there I'm sure she was mainly scared -- and cuffing her and throwing her in the car is not the way to deal with a scared kid.

Quote:

Quote by: Praxius

Chances are they already had some situations with this kid in the past and the parents didn't do much to improve the situation.

I too would have called the cops on the kid.... scare some shit into them, and if that doesn't work, then they get arrested, thrown in the back of the car and charged..... and then the parents can't sue the school, but the police, but that wouldn't work because they did everything by the book.

If you get the cops to do the dirty work, then you cover your ass.

If they had prior experience with this kid and this family, they should have been better prepared for this occurrence. They should have built a small padded room, or gotten permission to use a straitjacket, or something.

A regular citizen should call the cops. Schools are supposed to act as legal guardians for the kids, and while there are limits to that, I don't think the school should wash their hands of a kid just because she won't stop crying. What would you think of a parent who called the cops in this situation? If schools want the right to control kids in loco parentis, then they need to live up to the responsibilities.

Duke1985 · Apr 12, 2007, 04:18 pm

Wow.... just wow.
All I'm gonna say is the kid was six and at six this kind of behavior is more or less normal, this sounds like a temper tantrum to me, the whole thing damn ridiculous.
Well good luck trying to find a jury to convict a 6 year old.

gw120 · Apr 12, 2007, 05:13 pm

Quote:

make that school a safe environment for the students, staff and faculty

Holy fucking shit. Like a little 50 pound kindergarden student is going to harm anyone. I mean I can understand taking her away, in a creepy perverted sort of logic, but actually charging her is absolutely fucking hilarious.

fushigi · Apr 12, 2007, 10:00 pm

An uncontrolled 6-year old with sharp nails and unrestrained behavior can do plenty of damage. Plus, simply defending yourself against the kid could land you an assault charge, battery, and child abuse charges.

When you restrain a child who is out of control, you have to hold their wrists and ankles to avoid being scratched or bitten. That results in at least bruises. I don't care who is there to testify in your defense, even if you're judged "not guilty" no parent's going to trust you with their kid. The result is you get to go try and find a new career.

Finally, a kid this out of control needs a police record for admission officials in schools to consider. Would YOU want a 7-year old with a record to enroll in YOUR child's school?

Quote:

Quote by: DEEJ

If you start charging children that young for crimes such as assault and other simple crimes, then the prisons will be full of small children.

The minimum age for a prison sentence is 18. Minors go to juvenile hall or correctional camps.

Duke1985 · Apr 13, 2007, 10:29 am

No, a note on the kids records as a behavioral problem until the kid grows out of it will let every school know at the time the kid throws hissy fits, give him a police recored lets say the kid settles down by 8 years old, oh good schools won't take him because he's got this arrest when he's 6.
As I recall when I was young, they called your mom and locked you in a room until either one of your parents showed up or you tuckered yourself out.
This whole thing reeks with overreaction.

Yarn · Apr 13, 2007, 10:54 am

I used to go to a special ed school where they had 5 "steps" to deal with the bad behaviour, which you would advance or decline in depending on whether or not you behaved badly.

The first two steps were just warnings.

The third step was to sit you at a desk in the corner of the class room.

The fourth was to put you in a walled corner of the room. The walls of that corner didn't quite reach the cieling, and the way in was just a break in them.

The fifth step, was to put you in a small 5 by 5 foot room in the hallway. Kids inside that room frequenly attacked its door furiously whilst shouting curses. Often their shoes were taken from them, so that they couldn't attack it without hurting themselves, and so wouldn't attack it so much. I was only in it a few times, but I remember its door being littered wih dent marks.

Sometime people would try to run away from the school. That was funny.

They'd shouting things like "I'm free, FREE, so long mother f*****s!" when they ran.

P.S. Charging a Kindergardener for assualting a police officer is stupid.

iclaudius · Apr 13, 2007, 10:56 am

I honestly can't believe that we are even discussing this. A felony would essentially ruin her chances of going to college (at least if she was planning on going to a state school), she would never be able to get a job with the state, etc. I honestly can't think of a mistake a 6-year-old could make that would justify giving out a felony, which could essentially ruin her life.

Apr 12, 2007, 06:18 am	#3 (permalink) (top)
fushigi Hot Lava Location: Beijing Posts: 2,340	Wait, who are you debating with? "What truth endures beneath the flaming stream?" -- A Volcano, Bartolome de Las Casas, Inferno de Marsaya, 1536

Apr 12, 2007, 07:36 am	#5 (permalink) (top)
Marilyn Monroe dog lover Location: over the rainbow Posts: 1,122	Kindergartner The kid got what she deserved. Whatever problems she may have is not for the police to decide at that moment. They are there to maintain the peace. "My one regret in life is that I'm not somebody else." - Woody Allen

Apr 12, 2007, 09:19 am	#7 (permalink) (top)
CoffeeSaint Moral Turnip Location: Oregon, US Posts: 2,283	No, the police should not have been called. Yes, the school officials dropped the ball. Yes, they should have been able to control her, or at least separate her from the normal flow of school, regardless of what kind of tantrum she was throwing -- put her in the boiler room with a deaf janitor to watch over her, let her scream herself hoarse, whatever. Anything else to debate? Personally I would have tased the little snot. "Would you like some pie, Dr. Stark?" "Science is my pie. Curiosity, my sweet tooth. Knowledge is my candy."

Apr 12, 2007, 02:19 pm	#11 (permalink) (top)
DEEJ85 Igneous Magma Posts: 261	I heard a quote from somewhere, that Toddlers are the most violent group there is. If you start charging children that young for crimes such as assault and other simple crimes, then the prisons will be full of small children. Who hasn't as a child of around 6 ever got in a little squabble or hit someone? If you treat children like adults, they would huge criminal records. Beware of Logical Fallacies. See a list of them in the link below. http://home.mcn.net/~montanabw/fallacies.html

Apr 12, 2007, 04:18 pm	#15 (permalink) (top)
Duke1985 The Duke Location: Michigan Posts: 308	Wow.... just wow. All I'm gonna say is the kid was six and at six this kind of behavior is more or less normal, this sounds like a temper tantrum to me, the whole thing damn ridiculous. Well good luck trying to find a jury to convict a 6 year old. He's bad news man, helter skelter down the drain man.

Apr 12, 2007, 06:13 am	#2 (permalink) (top)
tinybear Volcanic Erupter Location: Hong Kong (for now) Posts: 7,009	So what if it was a 6-year old? Everybody capable of forming criminal intent must abide by the law or suffer the consequences. Before you start yelling about the 'rights' of that juvenile felon, think about the rights of those she violated.

Apr 12, 2007, 07:30 am	#4 (permalink) (top)
tinybear Volcanic Erupter Location: Hong Kong (for now) Posts: 7,009	The author of that sarcastic article.

Apr 12, 2007, 01:16 pm	#9 (permalink) (top)
Kamehameha34 The dingos! Posts: 4,335	Excusing children from the law only nurtures an 'invincibility' complex. That, and the kid sounds like a brat.

Apr 12, 2007, 02:29 pm	#12 (permalink) (top)
tinybear Volcanic Erupter Location: Hong Kong (for now) Posts: 7,009	On the other hand if you let them get away with serious misbehavior, they'll end up as criminals when they grow up.

Apr 13, 2007, 10:29 am	#18 (permalink) (top)
Duke1985 The Duke Location: Michigan Posts: 308	No, a note on the kids records as a behavioral problem until the kid grows out of it will let every school know at the time the kid throws hissy fits, give him a police recored lets say the kid settles down by 8 years old, oh good schools won't take him because he's got this arrest when he's 6. As I recall when I was young, they called your mom and locked you in a room until either one of your parents showed up or you tuckered yourself out. This whole thing reeks with overreaction. He's bad news man, helter skelter down the drain man.

Apr 13, 2007, 10:54 am	#19 (permalink) (top)
Yarn Igneous Magma Posts: 230	I used to go to a special ed school where they had 5 "steps" to deal with the bad behaviour, which you would advance or decline in depending on whether or not you behaved badly. The first two steps were just warnings. The third step was to sit you at a desk in the corner of the class room. The fourth was to put you in a walled corner of the room. The walls of that corner didn't quite reach the cieling, and the way in was just a break in them. The fifth step, was to put you in a small 5 by 5 foot room in the hallway. Kids inside that room frequenly attacked its door furiously whilst shouting curses. Often their shoes were taken from them, so that they couldn't attack it without hurting themselves, and so wouldn't attack it so much. I was only in it a few times, but I remember its door being littered wih dent marks. Sometime people would try to run away from the school. That was funny. They'd shouting things like "I'm free, FREE, so long mother f*****s!" when they ran. P.S. Charging a Kindergardener for assualting a police officer is stupid.

Apr 13, 2007, 10:56 am	#20 (permalink) (top)
iclaudius Igneous Magma Posts: 332	I honestly can't believe that we are even discussing this. A felony would essentially ruin her chances of going to college (at least if she was planning on going to a state school), she would never be able to get a job with the state, etc. I honestly can't think of a mistake a 6-year-old could make that would justify giving out a felony, which could essentially ruin her life.