British video catches policeman beating drunk woman:

[Pockets]

Quote by: ZNFYRH Pockets, I really want to respond, but I find it difficult to rationalize your posting style. Regrets.

good

[G. Adams]

Quote by: Pockets good

No one word answers dude, read the forum rules.

[Scribbler1]

What else would you say in response to a mildly insulting post like that? It seems like "good" said enough.

[G. Adams]

Quote by: Scribbler1 What else would you say in response to a mildly insulting post like that? It seems like "good" said enough.

Looking at the posts they were both being quite insulting to one another, the best response would have been to leave it alone rather than get the last word in.

[ZNFYRH]

I didn't mean for it to be insulting at all. It was very difficult to read what he wrote. I want to respond, but I can't seem to sort through apparent sarcasm and get to what he is trying to say.

[Pockets]

Quote by: ZNFYRH I didn't mean for it to be insulting at all. It was very difficult to read what he wrote. I want to respond, but I can't seem to sort through apparent sarcasm and get to what he is trying to say.

I would be glad to clarify. I would need to know which post you are referring to? I have had several long days recently and I admit my postings have not been especially fluid in style.

[ZNFYRH]

Pockets,

#58 and #59

[Pockets]

Quote by: ZNFYRH Pockets, #58 and #59

#58
in a 'nutshell'
I feel you are simply being judgemental with regard to the policemans reaction. I do not know what you do for did or a living. , however It is easy to sit and judge the videotape. The police, with or without guns, are put in unsafe situations all the time. I am curious as to what level of risk you feel is acceptable when it comes to a situation like this one? How much injury should the policeman incur before you feel it is ok for him to strike someone in the head? You point out the size of the woman. I feel the woman displayed disregard for everyone on the premises with her actions. You seem to feel her diminutive size warrants a lesser response from the police officer. I say man or woman, big or small, the policeman had a job to do. He should not take into account the size of the culprit, only the actions and apparent intent. You reference his training. I am sure his training dictates he not worry about the size of a culprit unless he feels he needs assistance, which he is probably trained to call for everytime. You worry about the well being of the girls yet never do you address the ultimate outcome: she was fine. Also she remembered nothing. My money her amnesia is a result of alcohol, not trauma.

#59
You are incorrect in your assumption. The entire situation is taken into account. If you defend yourself against an attacker, be they armed or unarmed, you need only prove you feared for your safety. If they die as a result of your striming them in the face, it is far from an automatic murder/manslaughter charge. Furthermore there have even been situations of persons defending themselves from 'attackers' were physical harm is not apparently imminent. These are mostly in cases of domestic violence where women shoot their spouses, citing the fact they feared for their safety. Of course they had to prove it and it is not easy. These cases often end up using what is called 'The Reasonable Man Theory'. The premise being was it reasonable to react the way the person reacted. I
I hope this clears things up for you

[Deus_ultima]

[quote=Pockets;352884] I am curious as to what level of risk you feel is acceptable when it comes to a situation like this one? How much injury should the policeman incur before you feel it is ok for him to strike someone in the head? [quote]

I often have to restrain aggressive teenagers that by the time they are 14 are usually taller than me.

I have never hit any of them, even if I have personally been hit as part of a personal attack or trying to break up a fight or protect another pupil.

I cannot see any circumstances where I would either as I am there to protect them first and foremost.

There is always a way to restrain them.
Even when they are high as kites.

[ZNFYRH]

Pockets,

Thank you for clarifying.

Unfortunately, the physical composition of the person makes a big difference in how one chooses to restrain them. In my training, I was taught not to strike to the head in case I felt my life was in danger.

Like I said much earlier in the thread, for a woman that size there is no reason to punch her in the head unless she is seriously posing a hand-to-hand threat. But she wasn't. If the policeman perceived her as a life-or-death threat to the point where he felt the need to render her unconscious in order to control her, then either his trainers failed or he forgot his training.

I'm not taking the woman's side. I stand by what I said initially... that the cop used excessive force. I trust that the proper review will be made to determine if it was due to a failure in his trainer or his ability to remember his training.

[Pockets]

[quote=Deus_ultima;352901][quote=Pockets;352884] I am curious as to what level of risk you feel is acceptable when it comes to a situation like this one? How much injury should the policeman incur before you feel it is ok for him to strike someone in the head?

I often have to restrain aggressive teenagers that by the time they are 14 are usually taller than me. I have never hit any of them, even if I have personally been hit as part of a personal attack or trying to break up a fight or protect another pupil. I cannot see any circumstances where I would either as I am there to protect them first and foremost. There is always a way to restrain them. Even when they are high as kites.

I do not advocate violence. I do not think the police are evaluated enough with regard totheir psychological well being.
If you want to compare a big 14 year old child to being a police officer on the beat, go ahead. It is not the same thing. If you wish to get hit and do not feel the need to defend yourself that is your right. That does not mean a police officer trying to restrain an adult shouldn't be allowed to use force to restrain a suspect. I don't know what punishment is excercised with regard to the children you work with. I'm sure you feel their punishment is adequate. I wonder what it teaches them. When I was a kid I had friends that were part of what we termed 'hands on' programs. These kids tested each and every teachers' limitis to see how far they got before 'hands on'. Just to clarify hands on meant defense and restraint. They only tested the physical teachers once. That's my personal experience. I do not know you or your program. How much liability does your employer face should one of your students get hurt while you attempt to restrain them? What is the school policy?

[Pockets]

Quote by: ZNFYRH Pockets, Thank you for clarifying. Unfortunately, the physical composition of the person makes a big difference in how one chooses to restrain them. In my training, I was taught not to strike to the head in case I felt my life was in danger. Like I said much earlier in the thread, for a woman that size there is no reason to punch her in the head unless she is seriously posing a hand-to-hand threat. But she wasn't. If the policeman perceived her as a life-or-death threat to the point where he felt the need to render her unconscious in order to control her, then either his trainers failed or he forgot his training. I'm not taking the woman's side. I stand by what I said initially... that the cop used excessive force. I trust that the proper review will be made to determine if it was due to a failure in his trainer or his ability to remember his training.

Perception can change by geography. I definitely feel you get what you get wjhen it comes to attacking the police. If the police officer had subdued her while simply getting a punch to the face or a clawmark across the face you may feel that is acceptable. I don't say he did not go off one her. He looks like he did. Do you really think he was hitting her as hard as he could? Look at her and look at him. Look at her afterwards.
However I feel we need to take into account he is a police officer. I think they get leeway because they have a job that everyday puts them in harms way. State of mind is definitely an issue. Dues makes reference to the job he/she? does. Monitored children v unknown quantity, known to be violent suspect. It is a different state of mind.

[Pockets]

One more thing. I can only say that size is a poor measure of the power, intent, and capabilities of a person. I sincerely hope the police in my neighborhood don't use size as the main measuring stick when it comes to evaluating a suspect.