British video catches policeman beating drunk woman:

[ZNFYRH]

Scribbler,

Prizefighters do die.

Journal of Combative Sport: Boxing Fatalities, Svinth

Pockets,

Let's play a game.

I just gave a reference showing not only numbers but actual names of people killed due to blows to the head (among other locations).

Has a punch to the groin ever killed someone?

I don't mean the aftereffects, like falling down and cracking their head open or anything like that. I mean has anyone ever been punched in the groin and died instantly?

I would appreciate a response on this, as you seem to be under the impression that one deserves the other.

[Pockets]

Quote by: ZNFYRH Scribbler, Prizefighters do die. Journal of Combative Sport: Boxing Fatalities, Svinth Pockets, Let's play a game. I just gave a reference showing not only numbers but actual names of people killed due to blows to the head (among other locations). Has a punch to the groin ever killed someone? I don't mean the aftereffects, like falling down and cracking their head open or anything like that. I mean has anyone ever been punched in the groin and died instantly? I would appreciate a response on this, as you seem to be under the impression that one deserves the other.

You and Deus are making an issue out of the nads thing. I don't care if she approached him and slapped him with a handkerchief. Skip the Jr High gossip crap. I never said a blow to the groin, or any punch, deserves death. Show me when I said that. Listen, I agree that there are more cops out there that need to have their asses kicked between their ears. If you think I'm a cop lover, you are way off base. As crazy as ths may sound, this situation is not exemplary. Why? The police are not trained to gauge the threat from this WOMAN any different than a MAN. Not for political correctness, for safety. You keep refererring to the size of the woman as if it mattered. Is she strong enough to pull his gun from his holster? Is she strong enough to incapacitate him? That is what they are trrained for. This is not the High School Principle breaking up a fight. I'm not going to argue this any further than this post becasue you won't convince me she didn't atack him and I won't convince you he didn't hit her as hard as he can. That is not the point. You want statistics I'll give you statistics.there have been 3 police officers killed this month, 25 so far this year, 18,545 in the history of our country. THESE are the statistics they roll out when they train them to asses the situation.. Here is the site: Search for Fallen Heroes
Do you know how many cops die every year from traffic stoips? However, he didn't pull his gun. She came after him. He has a gun. There are civilians.
Lets play a game. I don't know if you have family or kids or whatever. You have somebody. Probably two or three, rght? Put them all at the scene.about 100 feet away as the hole thing plays out. The cop walking up to the broad, sideways like you do with your sister. Only nobody has ever been killed ffrom getting kicked in the groin by their little sister. You said it first!. The cop moves to subdue, but not hurt, this little woman. However, he slightly misjudges her strength. "Strong for her size" your mom said through the tears, later. She breaks ONE ARM free, pulls a .22 caliber revolver from her waist, fires one erratic shot that hits your little sister right between the eyes. Your mom would be the first one to say the cop should have done more.
However, that did not happen. It may sound goofy but I guarantee at least 5 times a year a police officer goes against his training and approaches a situtaion like this one like you think he should. And ends up dead. The woman did not die. She wasn't even in the hospital for more than observation. If she was so fragile she would have been in the hospital for more. You talk of potentially lethal? The woman was potentally lethal. How lethal? She remembers NOTHING. That is a bad frame of mind.

[G. Adams]

Quote by: Pockets You and Deus are making an issue out of the nads thing. I don't care if she approached him and slapped him with a handkerchief. Skip the Jr High gossip crap. I never said a blow to the groin, or any punch, deserves death. Show me when I said that. Listen, I agree that there are more cops out there that need to have their asses kicked between their ears. If you think I'm a cop lover, you are way off base. As crazy as ths may sound, this situation is not exemplary. Why? The police are not trained to gauge the threat from this WOMAN any different than a MAN. Not for political correctness, for safety. You keep refererring to the size of the woman as if it mattered. Is she strong enough to pull his gun from his holster? Is she strong enough to incapacitate him? That is what they are trrained for. This is not the High School Principle breaking up a fight. I'm not going to argue this any further than this post becasue you won't convince me she didn't atack him and I won't convince you he didn't hit her as hard as he can. That is not the point. You want statistics I'll give you statistics.there have been 3 police officers killed this month, 25 so far this year, 18,545 in the history of our country. THESE are the statistics they roll out when they train them to asses the situation.. Here is the site: Search for Fallen Heroes Do you know how many cops die every year from traffic stoips? However, he didn't pull his gun. She came after him. He has a gun. There are civilians. Lets play a game. I don't know if you have family or kids or whatever. You have somebody. Probably two or three, rght? Put them all at the scene.about 100 feet away as the hole thing plays out. The cop walking up to the broad, sideways like you do with your sister. Only nobody has ever been killed ffrom getting kicked in the groin by their little sister. You said it first!. The cop moves to subdue, but not hurt, this little woman. However, he slightly misjudges her strength. "Strong for her size" your mom said through the tears, later. She breaks ONE ARM free, pulls a .22 caliber revolver from her waist, fires one erratic shot that hits your little sister right between the eyes. Your mom would be the first one to say the cop should have done more. However, that did not happen. It may sound goofy but I guarantee at least 5 times a year a police officer goes against his training and approaches a situtaion like this one like you think he should. And ends up dead. The woman did not die. She wasn't even in the hospital for more than observation. If she was so fragile she would have been in the hospital for more. You talk of potentially lethal? The woman was potentally lethal. How lethal? She remembers NOTHING. That is a bad frame of mind.

She's not likely to pull his gun from him seeing as this is the UK and he doesn't carry one. And I can assure you, it's much less than 5x a year a copper ends up dead in these situations over here. A copper being killed in the UK is big news, so we'd know about it.

[ZNFYRH]

Quote by: Pockets I never said a blow to the groin, or any punch, deserves death. Show me when I said that.

Quote by: Pockets I personally have hit a woman. Once. We were having a verbal altercation. She kicked me in the groin. I did nothing. I was bent over at the waist trying to catch my breath. Then she kicked me again. I hit her so hard she rolled backwards three complete times.

Or did you not realize that a punch to the head, plus rolling a few times, opens doors for potential spinal or cranial injuries?

Quote by: Pockets I'm not going to argue this any further than this post becasue you won't convince me she didn't atack him and I won't convince you he didn't hit her as hard as he can.

I never said she didn't attack him. Show me where I said that.

I can play that game too!!

Quote by: Pockets You want statistics I'll give you statistics.there have been 3 police officers killed this month, 25 so far this year, 18,545 in the history of our country.

Wow. So when someone asks you for your address, do you hand them your shoe?

Nice try dodging the request. I'll take it as an admission of the fact that the information does not exist.

Quote by: Pockets Do you know how many cops die every year from traffic stoips? However, he didn't pull his gun. She came after him. He has a gun. There are civilians

Unfortunately, GHook answered this one first. They don't carry guns in the U.K.

Quote by: Pockets Lets play a game.

That's cute how you use my own words like that. The problem is your scenario is retarded. U.K. cops aren't carrying. The second problem is that I don't usually hang around bars and clubs with my children.

Pockets, your post suffers from the primary ignorant belief that there was a gun involved. That woman could have knocked the cop unconscious, and all that would have happened was you'd have had an unconscious cop. If there were a gun, this thread would be different. But there wasn't.

This thread is based on the video mentioned in the opening post, whose scene occurred in the U.K. where cops don't carry guns. I apologize for sounding aggressive in this post, but I find it difficult to consider someone's opinion as intellectually valid when they start from the outset making mistakes.

[Praxius]

You guys are way over analyzing this. The fact of the matter is..... put yourself right there.... not behind the camera, but right in the middle of that, the thing is, you guys are not the officer in question, nor were you the lady having a caniption fit. You guys are trying to justify getting kicked in the nads to being punched in the head, To each person, it depends on what part of their bodies they deem are more vulnerable then another..... and in a few seconds, which can feel like minutes, or minutes that could last seconds, most of the time, nobody is thinking clear enough to make perfect decisions all the time..... and in the UK, with all the cameras up your arse, it's kinda hard to be perfect all the time, because no matter what, someone or something is watching.

She got thrown out of a bar, she smashed up a car (So she's got some kind of power to her) the video doesn't show what reasoning was behind him dragging her down the stairs, for all you or I know right now, she punched him a few times in the face and hit him in the crotch.... after striking a police officer anywhere, even by spitting on them, they have legal rights to arrest you for assault on a police officer, and they can take you down however they feel.

Not only that, but if she was biting the guy, how the hell does he know if she's got HIV or any other crazy disease? Are you going to let some crazy drunk bi*ch chew on you for a few minutes until someone can calmly ask her to stop?

If she wasn't going to come easily, then yeah, I'd drag her ass down the stairs too, lil' prissy drunk didn't get what she wanted...... if she was wrecking a car, causing a fight in the bar, making a scene, attacking a police officer, yeah..... who's the victim? I'd slug her two or three times myself.... if it'd knock the shit out of her so I could put the crazy bitch in the car, then so be it...... cripes, if you use pepper spray, people sue, if you are too rough with them, they sue, if they break their neck in a high speed chase, they're sued..... what a crock.

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: ZNFYRH Scribbler, Prizefighters do die.

No shit. And how many die from being punched in the heads by people whose aim is to not subdue them but to deliberately knock them unconscious.
Now, how many people punched by cops die? What is the statistical risk of brain injury when a cop punches you?




[

[Praxius]

What is the difference if it's an officer, a bouncer or a shoe salesman?

If anything, their training would teach them how not to kill someone with a punch.

The main thing here is, you're arguing a rhetoric..... she didn't die, she didn't get brain damage..... she should have, but she didn't..... speculating "what if's" is pointless...... what if he farted and her lungs exploded? We'll have to slap a diaper on his arse next time.

Given the situation and what the officer was equiped with, he did probably what anybody would in that situation. If she didn't want to get her head beaten inside out, then she should have had control over the drink, she should have left when she got ejected, she shouldn't have smashed up somone's car in a hissy fit, she shouldn't have attempted to bite the officer, and she shouldn't have tried to attack his nards......

Sometimes people need tough love.... especially in these times..... too many people get away with too much and cry foul when things get rough from their own actions. When I got jumped by 5 guys last year, once they all were caught and arrested from their friend ratting them out, they tried to put charges on me, because I got one of them worse then all 5 of them got me, so although they started it, I guess I should have been at fault for their idiocy.

I've got no sympathy for her.

[ZNFYRH]

Quote by: Scribbler And how many die from being punched in the heads by people whose aim is to not subdue them but to deliberately knock them unconscious.

I don't know. I'm unclear on something. If you're punching someone in the head, what is the purpose? Is there some kind of subduing due to cranial trauma other than knocking someone out?

Quote by: Scribbler Now, how many people punched by cops die? What is the statistical risk of brain injury when a cop punches you?

Does it have to be a cop?

The Human Brain - Watch Your Head
Brain Injury News and Information Blog - Traumatic Brain Injury, Head Injury, Coma & Concussion
http://bjsm.bmj.com/cgi/reprint/39/9/661.pdf

Of the 1,000,000 people treated in hospital emergency rooms each year, 50,000 die and 80,000 become permanently disabled because of traumatic brain injury (TBI).

Since being knocked unconscious counts as brain trauma, just the number of those who actually go to the emergency room gives an answer to your question... 5%. That data is based on results from only the states that participated, only 9 states in the U.S. It could be lower or higher, but you wanted a number and 5% is the best I could find.

I mentioned in the Martial Arts thread that I've learned enough not to fight. This thread is the reason why. I know how dangerous it is to strike someone on any part of the body, regardless of the consequences that follow.

Unless the person strikes me in the head first, I won't go for their head, ever. Policemen are taught about that. I don't care how intense the situation, if he failed in his training then he's not fit for duty until he learns to keep his head and not punch someone in theirs.

[G. Adams]

Quote by: Praxius Given the situation and what the officer was equiped with, he did probably what anybody would in that situation.

You control an epileptic fit by knocking them out? I'd hate to see how you deal with a real crisis.

[Praxius]

Quote by: G. Adams You control an epileptic fit by knocking them out? I'd hate to see how you deal with a real crisis.

I'm pretty sure he didn't know that she was going through a fit, and after the scene she already displayed during the confusion, knowing exactly what was going on would be kinda difficult to do, and considdering he was still in a defensive position, and still had to subdue the individual, his actions were appropreate..... he's a police officer, not a doctor.

As I said, if I am being attacked by someone, I don't care about their mental or physical condition... they are attempting to harm me and my well being..... I have no idea how far they are willing to go to injure or kill me..... I will use any force I deem suitable for the situation. If they have a medical condition, or prone to injury in any manner, then they should be more aware then I, and they shouldn't put themselves in a situation where someone could cause damage to them or start fights and use their medical condition as an excuse.

Sorry, but it's not my fault if some crazy person comes and attacks me and I punch them in the face and they die..... it's called self defence and attempt to control the situation..... once again.... she had it coming and I have no sympathy. If she didn't want to be treated the way she was, then perhaps she shouldn't go on a rampage in public and attack a police officer.

[ZNFYRH]

Praxius,

I am 100% sure that in America, if you were to punch a person in the face and it killed them, and they weren't wielding a knife or gun, you would have the book thrown at you.

I know it doesn't make sense if they punched you first and you punched back and killed them, but the law says that you shouldn't have punched back. That's why I don't fight.

[Praxius]

Quote by: ZNFYRH Praxius, I am 100% sure that in America, if you were to punch a person in the face and it killed them, and they weren't wielding a knife or gun, you would have the book thrown at you. I know it doesn't make sense if they punched you first and you punched back and killed them, but the law says that you shouldn't have punched back. That's why I don't fight.

Like as it's not my fault if someone can't hold their own liqour, it's not my fault if they can't take a punch after punching me.

If they don't want any difficulties in their life, then perhaps they shouldn't go around picking fights. I only attack someone in self defense... I can keep a heated argument going for hours, but as soon as someone takes a swing at me, all bets on their life continuing the next day are gone.

[G. Adams]

Quote by: Praxius I'm pretty sure he didn't know that she was going through a fit, and after the scene she already displayed during the confusion, knowing exactly what was going on would be kinda difficult to do, and considdering he was still in a defensive position, and still had to subdue the individual, his actions were appropreate..... he's a police officer, not a doctor.

He said he saw her foaming at the mouth before she passed out, what the hell else can he think, that she got rabies?

And I dunno about you but I don't consider sitting on someone a defensive position.

[ZNFYRH]

Quote by: Praxius I can keep a heated argument going for hours, but as soon as someone takes a swing at me, all bets on their life continuing the next day are gone.

Your illogical disregard for a person's life because they "took a swing at you" is noted. I won't expect you to understand temperance or control. I wonder, thought, do you understand responsibility?

Because this cop is now going to be responsible for explaining his actions, and right now it doesn't look logical or correct for him to have taken the measures he chose.

[Osborn F Enready]

ZNFYRH said: Because this cop is now going to be responsible for explaining his actions, and right now it doesn't look logical or correct for him to have taken the measures he chose.

And when the facts come out, I will be more ready to state my position more than I already have.

[Praxius]

Self-defense - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And don't mistaken my words in that I would go completely ape shit on the guy without regard.... I said above that I would take any means I deemed neccisary at the time to protect my well being.

If someone was attacking me with fists, then I would return the same way with hand to hand combat. If they persisted to get back up and continuing the fight, then I would have to increase my aggression to the point of incapacitating them one way or another.

[Praxius]

Your illogical disregard for a person's life because they "took a swing at you" is noted.

What is more illogical, my reasoning of the situation, or the person who thinks they can just go around and fight whoever they like without care of the damage they may inflict on the person they are attacking?

My logic of the situation in question is not much different then those who cry to have the right to own firearms for self defense reasons...... only I bypass the option of having to shoot them.... at least they'd have a better chance of survival if I just went hand to hand..... be lucky I don't use one of my knives in these situations

My bottom line on my disregard for a person's life is this:

I treat every other human's life equally. I don't try to bring any physical or mental harm to anybody as I would expect them to do the same for me. If someone decides to do so, they have already proven they care less of a human's well being then myself, and lose all respect on my side of things and not only will they be taught a harsh lesson, but they will be given the same respect as they are showing me. If I do not step up and defend myself, and put a quick stop to their antics, then who is to say they won't try the same thing later down the road to someone else, who could even be less able to defend themselves? At least giving them some "tough love" might make them think twice in attacking someone. If they can't take what they dish out, that's not my problem.

Sure, no one can tell what someone will do in the future, and perhaps my defense to the guy still may not deter them in the future, but it's better then rolling up in a ball and letting them do what they want.

I find it very puzzling that people here are trying to defend the woman who started all of this in the first place, and was the first to attack the officer..... some people have their priorities screwed.

[Pockets]

This thread is based on the video mentioned in the opening post, whose scene occurred in the U.K. where cops don't carry guns. I apologize for sounding aggressive in this post, but I find it difficult to consider someone's opinion as intellectually valid when they start from the outset making mistakes.

I apologize for nothing. No I did not even notice him not having a gun. It still makes no difference. You won't catch me pointing fingers at him. I know finger pointing is beneath you. Wait maybe not. All I can say is it is my opinion. What do I have to support it? She is not dead. She was fine afterwards. The cop did his job You never address her condition nor do you question what the officer had been told regarding the situation. You just worry about a poor little drunk girl. She got hit in the head. Poor girl. Why don't you go see her? Take your kids with. Tell her how she has been wronged if you feel so strongly. Bastard cops! 'There is no way he can get hurt by that little girl'. That is what you want a cop thinking when he arrives on a scene, 'I'm the biggest guy here'. Dum dee dum. You know nothing. You sit and question my intelligence yet cannot comprehend how anybody could do as this officer did? I don't know if you are a woman that has been beaten or a man that has been beaten. For whatever reason you think the police should place themselves in a postion to incur injury. Again I ask what level of injury is acceptable? That is not his job no matter what country he is in. Gun or no gun on the scene. Furthermore what does she have that he cannot see? I guess we can just ask you. You keep citing what they shouldn't do. Typical of an observer. Full of finger pointing but no constructive ideas. Oh that's right you do know. You and all of your martial arts training. That makes you uniquely qualified to advise the police. Write it all down. I am sure they will love to hear from you, with your extensive world view and worldy experiences. Yet you sit and keep saying only what you would not do. That's easy. You have videotape.
Where you ask me for my address I don't know. Show me where. I would like to see it.

[Pockets]

Quote by: ZNFYRH Praxius, I am 100% sure that in America, if you were to punch a person in the face and it killed them, and they weren't wielding a knife or gun, you would have the book thrown at you. I know it doesn't make sense if they punched you first and you punched back and killed them, but the law says that you shouldn't have punched back. Thatt's why I don't fight.

In America, if you can prove you had reason to fear for youir life, the person killed doesn't even have to say they are going to hit the other person prior to his/her demise. There are variables of course. Was your reasoning justified? In America just because somebody is not carrying a weapon does not mean you cannot defend yourself. Your actions simply need to be justified. There is no stipulation other than your actions be deemed reasonable. It is called 'The Reasonable Man Theory'. It is basically how the whole system works. So you would be wrong again.

[ZNFYRH]

Pockets,

I really want to respond, but I find it difficult to rationalize your posting style. Regrets.