British video catches policeman beating drunk woman:

[Scribbler1]

The difference is the cop was doing his job. With two civilians it would be assault because one doesn't have any business restraining the other unless he was attacked first.

[Pockets]

Quote by: ZNFYRH It's excessive. A cop that size should be able to control a woman that size. If she suddenly sobers up and demonstrates a spinning roundhouse to the temple, then he can hit back. But a cop is supposed to control a person by using equal or lesser force. I think he struck her out of frustration and just wanting to "subdue" her as quickly and easily as possible. It shows he lost control and wasn't thinking. Not fit for duty, if you ask me.

And if he miscalculates his force and doesn't use quite enough... and ends up getting hurt. His job is to protect the public. He can't do that if she knees him in the nads after he doesn't hit her as hard as he can

[ZNFYRH]

Quote by: Osborn I also know that when you are in that position, as the policeman was, and you are surging with adrenaline, you aren't thinking clearly, especially with no backup on your six.

If the policeman is unable to think clearly under those conditions then he isn't fit to be a policeman.

The very confidence in the authority of police officers is that they are supposed to have the ability to maintain their composure in situations that would unseat a normal person.

Quote by: Pockets He can't do that if she knees him in the nads after he doesn't hit her as hard as he can

Last time my sister tried to knee me in the balls (a couple days ago), I simply turned my hips. I've been doing that for years. I end up with bruised thighs, but that's it. Or I take the hit to the balls.

I don't understand this juvenile, high school mentality about the debilitating strike to the groin being an excuse for violent and excessive behavior. It's pain. You learn to get over it and get through it.

[Deus_ultima]

He did say that he hit her as hard as he was physically capable. He said that twice. That's not's not defending himself.

[jose]

Gave her arm a thumping so he could get the cuffs on

[Deus_ultima]

He didn't NEED to. There are SIMPLE ways to control one's arm, specially a girl that size?

Did they NEED to pull her pants down to her knees as well? What was up with that?

[Deus_ultima]

Quote by: ZNFYRH I don't understand this juvenile, high school mentality about the debilitating strike to the groin being an excuse for violent and excessive behavior..

Maybe because you grew up to have that wee bit of common sense?

[Osborn F Enready]

Much like in the mugger thread, we see people pontificating about "how they would act" in the exact same situation, or what "should have been done".

The act is done, it is over, and the policeman reacted as he saw fit.

If it was excessive, let the jury decide.

I am saying that once property, or life is injured, force is a VALID use to subdue a subject.

If that force is excessive or minimal is at the discretion of the officer, and he should be held accountable for his actions as his training and instictive ability provided.

[ZNFYRH]

Osborn,

But you stated that you didn't think the amount of force he used was excessive. Do you think the amount of force was appropriate to the level of threat?

A blow to the head is regarded by most forms of enforcement, military and civilian, as lethal force. Any type of trauma to the head poses the risk of immediate death due to injury to the brain.

Do you think that a kick to the groin should merit a potentially lethal response?

[Scribbler1]

Potentially LETHAL response? He punched her a few times and he wasn't even in a very advantageous position to inflict real harm. Short throw punches don't usually do that much damage, no matter how pissed off the cop was.

[ZNFYRH]

If they were blows to the head they were, technically, potentially lethal.

Alert: Use-of-Force Tactics & Non-Lethal Weaponry

[G. Adams]

Quote by: Scribbler1 Potentially LETHAL response? He punched her a few times and he wasn't even in a very advantageous position to inflict real harm. Short throw punches don't usually do that much damage, no matter how pissed off the cop was.

Short throw punches? Did you watch the video? It was 5 whipped punches to someone on the ground, so there is damage to the back of the skull from either absorption if it was on the floor at the time, even worse if her head was off the floor. It was enough to knock her unconscious, which demonstrates the potential of his punches. What if one if those punches hit the filtrum (central bit beneath nose)? It would have split her face open.

[ZNFYRH]

Unconscious = Concussion

Concussion = brain pressing against the skull

Pressure on an organ that is kept suspended in fluid? Could cause a bruise.

Bruise = ruptured blood vessel

Ruptured blood vessel in brain = Stroke

Stroke = potentially lethal

[Deus_ultima]

Quote by: Scribbler1 Potentially LETHAL response? He punched her a few times and he wasn't even in a very advantageous position to inflict real harm. Short throw punches don't usually do that much damage, no matter how pissed off the cop was.

He was over her and and he was cocking his elbow as high as possible.
You haven't seen the video or just want to contradict.

[Pockets]

ZNFYRH said Last time my sister tried to knee me in the balls (a couple days ago), I simply turned my hips. I've been doing that for years. I end up with bruised thighs, but that's it. Or I take the hit to the balls

I'm going to sound sarcastic but that has nothing to do with anything. Should we go ask your mother to be the judge should this ever go to trial? The policeman doesn't know what is going on in the subjects mind. He must approach each situation with the same mindset. In this case the woman was acting eratically before he got there. The police are not paid enough for the jobs they do. Neirther are teachers, firemen, nurses, etc. Why are the police on this list? Becasue a simple traffic stop can turn murderous. Police are trained to approach a given situation in a certain way.

ZNFYRH said: Unconscious = Concussion Concussion = brain pressing against the skull Pressure on an organ that is kept suspended in fluid? Could cause a bruise. Bruise = ruptured blood vessel Ruptured blood vessel in brain = Stroke Stroke = potentially lethal

And the policeman is supposed to accept what level of injury? What should he risk for a drunk, disorderly, incoherent woman?
I think the police need to be given a psychological evaluation prior to being hired. They have power and authority not given to the general public. I don't think they appreciate the level at which their authority impacts the lives around them. That being said, altercations like this one are not among the reasons I feel that way.

[ZNFYRH]

Pockets,

As far as the first part goes, you missed the point. He could have avoided a strike to the groin by positioning himself differently. Unless he wasn't trained in any form of hand-to-hand combat at all, which I find doubtful.

On your second part, those levels of injury relate to the woman, not the cop. You missed another point... that blows to the head are considered potentially lethal, and are only meant as a response to highly escalated violence. So tell me... do you think a punch to the temple that causes death is the proper response to a swing at your balls?

I agree with your final opinion about police needed an evaluation. I think they should be given significant training to prevent this sort of thing.

[Osborn F Enready]

Again, I say this, and stand on it.

The act is done, it is over, and the policeman reacted as he saw fit. If it was excessive, let the jury decide. I am saying that once property, or life is injured, force is a VALID use to subdue a subject. If that force is excessive or minimal is at the discretion of the officer, and he should be held accountable for his actions as his training and instictive ability provided.

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: ZNFYRH Unconscious = Concussion Concussion = brain pressing against the skull Pressure on an organ that is kept suspended in fluid? Could cause a bruise. Bruise = ruptured blood vessel Ruptured blood vessel in brain = Stroke Stroke = potentially lethal

Skull= Hard as a rock sometimes. Otherwise every prize fighter would probably die halfway into their first fight.

Was he even punching her head? Uninjured minds want to know.

[Pockets]

ZNFYRH quote On your second part, those levels of injury relate to the woman, not the cop. You missed another point... that blows to the head are considered potentially lethal, and are only meant as a response to highly escalated violence. So tell me... do you think a punch to the temple that causes death is the proper response to a swing at your balls?

This woman is not dead. This goes back to part of my first post on this subject: What level of injury should the officer decide he will accept? He could have just as easiily incurred such injuries. That is not his job nor should it be. As far as the strike to the groin I will tell one quick story. I personally have hit a woman. Once. We were having a verbal altercation. She kicked me in the groin. I did nothing. I was bent over at the waist trying to catch my breath. Then she kicked me again. I hit her so hard she rolled backwards three complete times. I was in High School as was she. I have never struck a woman before or since. I didn't think about it as was all reflex. Adults that were present supported my actions as warranrted. What if she had turned her head, expecting me to be incapaitated? So the answer to your question is no, death is not the appropriate response. Not for any action. What is approprite is to realize what the situation is. Does the situation present itself as a threat to your physical harm? Are you not being threatened physically? It is easy, after the fact, to view a video tape. My stance is simply the officer should treat this woman just as he would a man. As a citizen I would not accept the statement 'I didn't realize she was that strong' when explaining why an officer did not subdue a suspect. Should the police have a list of appropriate responses to situations like this one? A weight chart? Maybe the body mass index would be a good starting place? No. You physically attack a police officer in the course of his job? If it were a man, we are not having this conversation.

[G. Adams]

Quote by: Scribbler1 Skull= Hard as a rock sometimes. Otherwise every prize fighter would probably die halfway into their first fight. Was he even punching her head? Uninjured minds want to know.

Yes. He'd have to be some unearthly fighter to punch her into unconsciousness otherwise.