You know your country is no longer free when.....

[Osborn F Enready]

This is a compilation of thoughts expressed by other people, which echo my own. I have said these same things many times, so I feel no need to quote or credit anyone in particular for borrowing their words, which I have often expressed likewise.

You know your country is no longer free when.......

*the police shut down a children's lemonade stand because they didn't have a permit.

*after getting hit by a hurricane and the only thing that people want is ice to prevent their food from spoiling, an ice making company starts selling ice off of their loading dock and the city shuts it down because they don't have a retail license.

*Your tax payments are near equal, or greater than your take home pay.

*You need a permit to build a fire.

*you have to think about what you should actually post on the internet.

*The government can take your property and give it to anyone they please.

*the government wiretaps everone.

*you have to pay taxes after you die.

*your wife has to sell her home to pay those taxes.

*you have to pay education taxes yet have no kids of your own.

*a student can't bring a paring knife in their lunch box to peel an apple.

*your government believes that torture is a valid interrogation tool.

*your own government sells all of its citizens into financial slavery to a Private Corporation.(Federal Reserve)

*your library checkout log can be obtained by the government to check and see what books you are reading.

*that you must pass a high stakes test to prove you are educated, and it's more important how you state things on the test rather than having the correct answer.

*that you can be prosecuted for not giving your kids psychotropic medications when the state deems it necessary.

*learning to be self-sufficient is viewed as being suspicious.

*using cash for a large purchase is suspicious activity.

*buying a ticket for cash or a one way ticket is suspicious activity.

*you must present guvmint i.d. for virtually everything.

*If you object to guvmint listening to every form of communication possible you are probably a criminal because after all , "if you don't have anything to hide...."

*you are numbered from birth in the sense that cattle are branded

*you must pass a metal detector and show proper i.d. to gain entry to guvmint buildings, where the "people's business is conducted."

*you don't have the right to travel without guvmint permission because your passport is guvmint property and must be surrendered on demand

*You must declare cash or financial instruments ten thousand dollars or over on leaving the country or you are drug dealer and criminal.

*Banks must report any "suspicious activity" which is virtually everything because they fear fincen and fedguv.

*Banks require your national i.d. number even if the account is non interest bearing

*If you are on public lands and you find and take with you an arrowheard, you are a criminal.

*every source of income must be reported or you are a criminal and tax cheat

*You must be licensed for virtually any occupation or business because there is no free market and the various guvmints need their cut

*there is no such thing as conscience or moral conduct as a defense.

*Follow orders or you are a state criminal. Nuremberg was a long time ago

*Civil society is diminished and the state becomes more and more important.
Except those members of civil society who are de facto part of and approved by the state.

*Protestors must protest from designated spaces and must obtain a permit.

*Presidents can initiate war because they want to. The number one charge at Nuremberg, aggressive war, is now inoperative.

*If you don't pay your rent to the state they will take your land and maybe kill or imprison you.

*you must be properly deferential to the police or authority because if you don't they will take your property and maybe kill or imprison you.

*the supreme court can decide today that a right you had yesterday is not valid today. The idea that maybe rights aren't guvmint granted is now inoperative.

*No knock swat style raids and militarization of the police are good things. And if you question this you are most likely a criminal or terrorist.

*Anyone who brings up the bill of rights or declaration of independence or constitution just doesn't understand "our system" and is probably a criminal.

*If you refuse to accept, and provide on demand as a trained chimp, approved government I.D. whenever questioned, at threat of force being used to put you in prison.

*the police lie to get a warrant, bust down your door, and kill you for defending yourself and your family then find out they had the wrong house. Additional insult: All of the police involved are still working and aren't in prison.

*the U.S. Atty General says that Habeas Corpus is no more.

*secret warrants are issued by secret judges in secret courts and served by secret cops. The poor citizen is then taken to secret lock ups where NO lawyer can be had.

*your wife and young teenage son are MURDERED by FBI sharpshooters over a disputed tax of only $200, THEN you are cornered in your home with wounded friend and all of you are fearful of coming out for fear that you will be mowed down just like your wife and son.

*ALL those of the government agencies who committed these crimes are all rewarded and promoted rather than tried, convicted, and jailed as they should be.

*your local county commissioners spend weeks discussing exactly how a lap-dance is to be performed, and bust those doing it "wrong"

*growing certain plants can get you fined, jailed, or killed

*selling sexual aids can get you imprisoned

*Your "equally checked and balanced "President can rule by proclamation.(executive order)





Feel free to add to this list.......or debate.

[Osborn F Enready]

Not even a "shock" or an "awe"?

[Milton Bradley]

Personally, I'm speecchless.

[Keith Hamburger]

I'll go with "awe".

Keith

(However, I guarantee you won't get many posts to this thread. No one wants to admit they support any or all of those things, and the rest of us are amazed at the list you've managed to come up with.)

[notworthabean]

some are horrible(the massacere f 200 dollar tax issues), some are pathetic (the ice), some of your things though are just so unobjectionable they would only offend an ultra anti-state person. opposing a property tax?

[Boetie]

When government in power prides itself on harsh indifference to public opinion. ie 75 percent of the people expressed their voice that they do not like this Iraq war by handing the legislative branch over to the Democratic Party and what the People get in response is more troops going over and more warmongering against another soverign nation.

It is hard to imagine demonstrations changing the mind of Bush Jr about anything thus leaving the People with no other outlet than to express themselves online. But lo and behold even online we become censored when it comes to topics of what exactly is terrorism ie the censorship of Al-Manar thread which has been deleted is a prime example.

What is a person to do to become informed citizens and to reach out to others so that we may not become victims of the Bush Jr bullshit again and the person realizes that even online censorship is the order of the day?

[notworthabean]

huh boetie? the terror news netowrk thread is still here

Is It Fair to Censor Al-Manar TV?

[Boetie]

Quote by: notworthabean huh boetie? the terror news netowrk thread is still here Is It Fair to Censor Al-Manar TV?

When I got home I couldn't find it and shot myself in the foot. I feel embarrassed about going off on a rant.

[Osborn F Enready]

I am suprised (not) so many people are so anxious to watch this thread die......

After all VOTING Americans, is this not your idea of freedom?

Why not voice that support, or protest?

Do you deny anything listed?

[Scribbler1]

I could add a few, but the list is already long enough to make me want to leave this country or kill myself.

It doesn't matter if this thread dies or not. On this forum you'll find few, if any, challenges to what you have posted and out in the "real" world people are too busy watching Football or waiting for a "Sex in the City" rerun to be bothered.

The Internet is about the only place left where you can find a choir to preach to. And the rest of the idiot sheep? Well, they don't want to be bothered.



HEY! Did you hear Britney Spears shaved her head?? WOW!
I gotta go watch MSNBC to find out more of that! Wow!

[Clarence]

I agree with most of it. Some things just stand out more. if you happen to list something a skeptic of skeptics (idiot sheep} would consider petty, the whole statement could be compromised. They're like, 'whateverrr!'.

*the police shut down a children's lemonade stand because they didn't have a permit.

sounds like beuracracy not tyranny, but still, I know your perspective and can relate this to what we know and agree to your statement in the end. What about the people who need to see what we're talking about? You know what'm getting at. Definitely don wanna open up with it. IMO

*after getting hit by a hurricane and the only thing that people want is ice to prevent their food from spoiling, an ice making company starts selling ice off of their loading dock and the city shuts it down because they don't have a retail license.

This whole story is a major link. This disaster was easier to create than 9/11. Boom! hole in the wall. impromto pond and damn! it just fits so well...but as long as no one cares to look harder..

But the people aren't much more stupid than me and I can figure it out. We got tricked. They knew it'd come to this. They got legislation for it and we don't know who all of em are. THey aren't going to go easy and so many people would have to adnmit they got scammed I'll bet when the truth about our leaders comes out about half of them just go along with it and say yeah! BUt just like the Nazi-enabling yuppies when questioned about thier knowledge of the reich's doings, they will of course be innocent. And of course they are.

We have the benefit of history to gauge what is happening and everyday more people are listening. I try to keep my tone when I have their ear. They can then hear what I'm saying. That's my response. I'll just leave some my favorites (?) from your list below in no order of importance IMO

*Your tax payments are near equal, or greater than your take home pay.

*You need a permit to build a fire.


*The government can take your property and give it to anyone they please.

*the government wiretaps everone.

*you have to pay taxes after you die.

*your wife has to sell her home to pay those taxes.

*you have to pay education taxes yet have no kids of your own.



*your government believes that torture is a valid interrogation tool.

*your own government sells all of its citizens into financial slavery to a Private Corporation.(Federal Reserve)

*your library checkout log can be obtained by the government to check and see what books you are reading.

*that you can be prosecuted for not giving your kids psychotropic medications when the state deems it necessary.

*learning to be self-sufficient is viewed as being suspicious.

*buying a ticket for cash or a one way ticket is suspicious activity.

*you must present guvmint i.d. for virtually everything.

*If you object to guvmint listening to every form of communication possible you are probably a criminal because after all , "if you don't have anything to hide...."

*you are numbered from birth in the sense that cattle are branded
*you must pass a metal detector and show proper i.d. to gain entry to guvmint buildings, where the "people's business is conducted."

*you don't have the right to travel without guvmint permission because your passport is guvmint property and must be surrendered on demand

*You must declare cash or financial instruments ten thousand dollars or over on leaving the country or you are drug dealer and criminal.

*Banks must report any "suspicious activity" which is virtually everything because they fear fincen and fedguv.

*Banks require your national i.d. number even if the account is non interest bearing

*If you are on public lands and you find and take with you an arrowheard, you are a criminal.

*every source of income must be reported or you are a criminal and tax cheat

*You must be licensed for virtually any occupation or business because there is no free market and the various guvmints need their cut

*there is no such thing as conscience or moral conduct as a defense.

*Follow orders or you are a state criminal. Nuremberg was a long time ago

*Civil society is diminished and the state becomes more and more important.
Except those members of civil society who are de facto part of and approved by the state.

*Protestors must protest from designated spaces and must obtain a permit.

*Presidents can initiate war because they want to. The number one charge at Nuremberg, aggressive war, is now inoperative.

*If you don't pay your rent to the state they will take your land and maybe kill or imprison you.

*you must be properly deferential to the police or authority because if you don't they will take your property and maybe kill or imprison you.

*the supreme court can decide today that a right you had yesterday is not valid today. The idea that maybe rights aren't guvmint granted is now inoperative.

*No knock swat style raids and militarization of the police are good things. And if you question this you are most likely a criminal or terrorist.

*Anyone who brings up the bill of rights or declaration of independence or constitution just doesn't understand "our system" and is probably a criminal.

*If you refuse to accept, and provide on demand as a trained chimp, approved government I.D. whenever questioned, at threat of force being used to put you in prison.

*the police lie to get a warrant, bust down your door, and kill you for defending yourself and your family then find out they had the wrong house. Additional insult: All of the police involved are still working and aren't in prison.

*the U.S. Atty General says that Habeas Corpus is no more.

*secret warrants are issued by secret judges in secret courts and served by secret cops. The poor citizen is then taken to secret lock ups where NO lawyer can be had.

*your wife and young teenage son are MURDERED by FBI sharpshooters over a disputed tax of only $200, THEN you are cornered in your home with wounded friend and all of you are fearful of coming out for fear that you will be mowed down just like your wife and son.

*ALL those of the government agencies who committed these crimes are all rewarded and promoted rather than tried, convicted, and jailed as they should be.

*your local county commissioners spend weeks discussing exactly how a lap-dance is to be performed, and bust those doing it "wrong"

*growing certain plants can get you fined, jailed, or killed

*selling sexual aids can get you imprisoned

*Your "equally checked and balanced "President can rule by proclamation.(executive order)
[/quote]


Ahhh screw it. They're all relevent. I'm just saying. I want people to know that I'm serious about this subject. Because I'm serious about what needs done, I try not to rule the people out. Once they know, they'll know. And see, we'll need to keep them from mobbing because I believe that is the plan of our enemies. Get us to mob. They will try and bring us down and devour us. Everything else is a leadup. I'm not sure we can stop it unless we can somehow expose something. A near miracle is what it'd be. Then when/if that happens. Mob. They win by escaping with all the plans they've made while we fall over ourselves and Cains and Ables kill and be killed around us. Then from the suffering, our enemy steps forward with a new face and the comfort they bring is the last thing they need to start over the way they see fit not knowing thier folly. Or perhaps feeling above it. We need something.

[Boetie]

My contribution to this thread. Click on the link

ACLU: Lost Liberty

The Patriot Act’s provisions ­ sold as necessary to fight terrorism ­ have often been used in a wide variety of common crimes that do not involve terrorism. Indeed, DOJ attorneys are being trained in how to use the PATRIOT Act to tilt the balance toward the prosecution. For example, Nevada newspapers are reporting that PATRIOT Act terrorism financing powers were used to investigate Michael Galardi, the owner of two Las Vegas strip clubs, in a probe of alleged corruption involving local officials. Source: “PATRIOT Act: Law’s Use Causing Concerns,” Las Vegas Review-Journal, November 5, 2003.

Did the probe just probe the officials or did our guardians probe something else such as perfume and pink chiffon?

[Joe Doakes]

It's like reading a detailed reciepe for global dictator-ship.

[Osborn F Enready]

Joe Doakes said: It's like reading a detailed reciepe for global dictator-ship.

I couldn't agree more, as actions speak a lot louder than words in this case.

You know the thing that irks me the most?

Our very first President, George Washington, took the office with respect and honor. He humbled his own intrests in the intrests of the nations people when he gave in his farewell address, a clear call to the people to take clear and visible hold of the fire that is government. He gave clear warning to what means and methods the new system had fallen short in protection, as well as further expressing the clear picture he had before him, based on what was to build from.

We as a nation of citizens, have fallen short in recognizing and utilizing those words to our benefit, we failed to stop clear shortcomings from leading to clear usurpation of power from within by the shallow profit engine that has become party, and led us down a path of "self-evident" rights infringement in every single aspect of the law.

We do not deserve to wear the badge of honor that is the flag that represented the republic while it stood, unless we are willing to pay the same price for that republic to revive it.

Washingtons Farewell Address:
The Avalon Project : Washington's Farewell Address 1796

[Scribbler1]

Unfortunately, IMO, we are no more than PARTIAL citizens. If you believe the simple definition of citizen, "someone with rights and responsibilities in a particular community, country or state", you would tend to see that we are no longer "citizens" so much as we have become CLIENTS of this country. We might still have some of the rights, but we have paid the government to assume ALL of the responsibilities.

Or, to use a business metaphor, we are now the plant owners who spend no time managing the plant, preferring to let the plant manager handle all the work. Through greed, corruption or incompetence, the manager has seriously jeopardized the company and as absent owners we, through our apathy, no longer have the power to step in and make things right.

Like so many property owners who have properties in the Northeast but who themselves live in Florida. They trust the property to managers who often run their investment into the ground and they don't even KNOW about it until the property is condemned.

[Osborn F Enready]

Agreed.

[Osborn F Enready]

I have posted this thread in a few forums, and I am amazed at how little people have to say, except "gosh", "wow", "saddening" and "shameful".

Time to stop gazing at our navel, and do something!

[Fonceai]

You post this stuff to a forum and get mad others aren't doing something?

Maybe if you started a march or took the first step yourself?

I think what you're discovering is that while a lot of us might complain, the stuff we complain about really doesn't effect us at all.

[Osborn F Enready]

Fonceai said: You post this stuff to a forum and get mad others aren't doing something?

Yes.

Fonceai said: Maybe if you started a march or took the first step yourself?

I am trying to organize competent resistance, not necessarily violent.
I am wondering why more others are not.
I am establishing perception of the problem by the public.

Your point?

Fonceai said: I think what you're discovering is that while a lot of us might complain, the stuff we complain about really doesn't effect us at all.

I speak for myself, and am trying to find out what other people think when facts are in front of them.

Did you read the list?
Do you feel provoked to some form of action?
Have you taken any?
Written a letter?
Formed a public protest?
Tried to get media attention?

I did all of the above, and more.

This isn't a pissing contest, its a call for common sense, for people to discuss and consider integrated action.

[Fonceai]

And my point is that maybe people don't consider "integrated action" necessary.

In the 18 months I've been home, I scheduled and spoke to each of the Reps from New York state. This year I plan on meeting with the Senators.

It's my right as a citizen and it's nice to have the veteran status to push things along. I showed that I'm educated and intelligent and informed on the issues and I was able to really find out how they personally feel about things.

Plus, and no offense intended, but I don't think any of us are as loosely bound to our lives and locations as you are. I think nearly all of us have more to lose than you do.

The lack of opinion might be because, deep down, most of us just don't really care.