Volconvo is a debate forum for the discussion of political, religious, and news-based topics.

The Sexorcist · Jan 11, 2007, 09:50 pm

If I can remake America in any way I wanted, if I was allowed to completley redesign the social fabric of America, here's what I would do.

I would turn America into a den of sin. I would transform it into a mecca for every disgusting, bizzare and perverse vice we all have. I would help pornography, sex shops, liquor stores, casinos, head shops, bars and strip clubs flourish. I would allow completely uncensored TV and radio to be broadcast, and Howard Stern would be the President of the FCC. I would allow marijuana, LSD and psilocybin to be legally bought and consumed. I would allow people to marry whoever or whatever their sick little minds want to. I would erase all sodomy and anti-gay legislation immediately. I have always had the image of America as truly the land of the free; social restraints are non-existant, and social policy is dictated by the Golden Rule; treat others as you want to be treated.

Over the years, I've discovered the unfortunate dark side to the US, wide and deep. But no matter what my opinions of the governemnt and it's actions have been, I have always been comforted by the fact that the basic, fundamental, overiding philosophy of the United States is idea that the individual is the only moral compass, and that as long as an individual's actions do interfere with another's then they are within the boundaries of acceptable behavior; no mater what one thinks about another's behavior, persecution is held in check by this overall philosophy to life in the US. if anything, this has let me be able to sleep, the warm knowledge that we still are a great country, out side of our government's actions here and abroad.

Now, I am begining to think we are losing this most important of values. THe encroaching moral police have slowly begun to move in with a rigid set of "morals" that threaten us all, even those who insist on them.

Now, more than ever, we need perversity and immoral behavior, to reaffirm the fact that, no matter what our personal beliefs are, this is America, goddamit, and this country for the people, by the people, has always upheld the idea that this is a free and open land, and no matter what you are into, drugs, sex, porn, booze, gambling, prostitutes, swearing or just being a general depraved individual, we are above creating laws to crack down on these actions just because someone, somewhere finds it "offensive".

Enough is enough. The American people need obscenity; they need to be offended, they need to have uncomfortable ideas and lifestyles always around the corner to remind them that this is the cost of a free society; dealing with things you don't personally like. I've always said no one has a right to not be offended, let's start using this tool to spread social freedom at any cost, and fight agaisnt against respressive moral egislation before we've gone to far into the gates of P.C.

Nurf · Jan 11, 2007, 09:55 pm

Quote:

Quote by: The Sexorcist

If I can remake America in any way I wanted, if I was allowed to completley redesign the social fabric of America, here's what I would do.

I would turn America into a den of sin. I would transform it into a mecca for every disgusting, bizzare and perverse vice we all have. I would help pornography, sex shops, liquor stores, casinos, head shops, bars and strip clubs flourish. I would allow completely uncensored TV and radio to be broadcast, and Howard Stern would be the President of the FCC. I would allow marijuana, LSD and psilocybin to be legally bought and consumed. I would allow people to marry whoever or whatever their sick little minds want to. I would erase all sodomy and anti-gay legislation immediately. I have always had the image of America as truly the land of the free; social restraints are non-existant, and social policy is dictated by the Golden Rule; treat others as you want to be treated.

Over the years, I've discovered the unfortunate dark side to the US, wide and deep. But no matter what my opinions of the governemnt and it's actions have been, I have always been comforted by the fact that the basic, fundamental, overiding philosophy of the United States is idea that the individual is the only moral compass, and that as long as an individual's actions do interfere with another's then they are within the boundaries of acceptable behavior; no mater what one thinks about another's behavior, persecution is held in check by this overall philosophy to life in the US. if anything, this has let me be able to sleep, the warm knowledge that we still are a great country, out side of our government's actions here and abroad.

Now, I am begining to think we are losing this most important of values. THe encroaching moral police have slowly begun to move in with a rigid set of "morals" that threaten us all, even those who insist on them.

Now, more than ever, we need perversity and immoral behavior, to reaffirm the fact that, no matter what our personal beliefs are, this is America, goddamit, and this country for the people, by the people, has always upheld the idea that this is a free and open land, and no matter what you are into, drugs, sex, porn, booze, gambling, prostitutes, swearing or just being a general depraved individual, we are above creating laws to crack down on these actions just because someone, somewhere finds it "offensive".

Enough is enough. The American people need obscenity; they need to be offended, they need to have uncomfortable ideas and lifestyles always around the corner to remind them that this is the cost of a free society; dealing with things you don't personally like. I've always said no one has a right to not be offended, let's start using this tool to spread social freedom at any cost, and fight agaisnt against respressive moral egislation before we've gone to far into the gates of P.C.

Yeah, that's a bad idea.

The Sexorcist · Jan 11, 2007, 10:27 pm

...any reasons? Or I am just supposed to trust you?

**Jack** · Jan 12, 2007, 12:34 am

My first thought was that you should head down to Las Vegas. Most of what you propose can be found there, 24/7/365.

I see your point and agree. Good use of hyperbole, by the way.

Cadre · Jan 12, 2007, 02:18 am

There will always be a line drawn somewhere. That is the nature of government and civilization. Without impositions and boundaries, the will of the people becomes the will of the individual. What you have then is anarchy.

Please don't act as though you feel somehow morally, ethically, or in any other way restrained. When observing American values, freedom of speech, and individuality, the country is pushing boundaries, has been, and will continue too (and for good cause). It only requires 20 minutes of reading in a history text book to see how far things have come. I understand and empathize with your concern towards these principles in your country, but don't confuse these ideas with the concurrent reality. They are fantastical notions, often glorified as in some sort of '1984'-esque utopian society gone bad.

Yes, I want to be able to stand and scream my opinions at the top of my lungs, with another fellow right beside me doing the exact same but disagreeing. I find security, comradery, and respect in this. But it is a fine line between this and 'needing obscenity and offense', remember we are all subjective beings, and what one person finds as obscene and offensive can be severely damaging, and destructive to a society and it's respectful participants.

Go spend a summer in Cambodia before you make a speech is righteous as this one.

Seems to me like a lot of intellectuals/philosophers/politics students andor thinkers from my generation are just looking to push boundaries, to find some sort of external stimulus adrenaline rush. Alot of it is just for entertainments sake though, and we all know how excessive that can be.

Sorry if this is incohernet, I'm tired as hell...

The Sexorcist · Jan 12, 2007, 08:51 am

Quote:

Quote by: Cadre

...the country is pushing boundaries, has been, and will continue too (and for good cause).

...a lot of intellectuals/philosophers/politics students andor thinkers from my generation are just looking to push boundaries, to find some sort of external stimulus adrenaline rush. Alot of it is just for entertainments sake though, and we all know how excessive that can be.

I really can't tell what you're getting at with this reply

A truly, free liberated scoiety would by it's vary nature be a hotbed of immoral behavior.

Autolykos · Jan 12, 2007, 09:52 am

Quote:

Quote by: The Sexorcist

A truly, free liberated scoiety would by it's vary nature be a hotbed of immoral behavior.

Perhaps a truly free and liberated society would have a correspondingly limited morality. What I mean is, would the "immoral behavior" you allude to above be considered such in this society? My answer is probably not. :)

There is a difference between "morally wrong" (i.e. undesirable for everyone) and "personally wrong" (i.e. undesirable for you).

- Rob

Praxius · Jan 12, 2007, 10:10 am

If you really were allowed to do whatever you want, you wouldn't have to worry about going to jail for something as trivial as recreational drug use or nudity, etc.

I don't see a problem with this proposal. Sure there'd be no control over the population in general (Besides those who interfere with another's well being.) but everything would be equal, both good and bad.

Then again, you have the other problem of a country without a set of order, is that it'd be easy to invade and defeat in theory. How would you be able to form a decent army for defense? Chances are you won't be able to.

Then you get invaded, then you're taken over, then you're back to a government, laws and perhaps more oppression then before.

Zhavric · Jan 12, 2007, 11:02 am

Sexorcist, I'd settle for a country that doesn't come down with a 5th grade case of the giggles at the mention of what you talked about. We have a terrible & immature relationship with sexuality and drug use that stems from our puritanical background.

We don't need more sin*. We need to be less uptight about sin.

*I don't believe in biblical sin. I'm just stating sin because it's faster than listing all the activities that sexoricst mentioned.

The Sexorcist · Jan 12, 2007, 12:16 pm

Praxius- I don't see how this has anything to do with my topic. How would a truly free society lend itself towards being invaded easier?

Zhavric- I think the accpetance (beign less uptight) of "sin" will come with my proposal. Like I said, the fact that these popular (and they are popular) activities are openly and freely done, people will become accustomed to living with it and acceptance will flourish.

Praxius · Jan 12, 2007, 01:31 pm

Quote:

Quote by: The Sexorcist

Praxius- I don't see how this has anything to do with my topic. How would a truly free society lend itself towards being invaded easier?

Well it depends on where you're standing in this topic. Are you talking about Anarchy? Or are you talking about the same form of laws and government, but with less restraint on the things that affect the individual?

I was referring towards a country run by Anarchy.

Cadre · Jan 13, 2007, 03:13 pm

People will always be 'uptight' about sin from generation to generation.

One age group will push boundaries to a certain limit, enjoying liberties and exploring there world/existence to a point where they stop, and re-evaluate there standings and values in life and 'mature'. This isn't to say that we stop enjoying life, but that we reach a point where as individuals we believe we have developed a strong set of moral codes and principles (through that boundary pushing maturing process) that we believe are just and fair and should be used to govern our actions as individuals, and are the best bet for society as well.

Obviously the generations that come after them will be already accustomed to their traditions and moral values/ethical views through the agents of socialization they undergo in the adolescent years. However just as the previous generation did, they will push boundaries even further, and will be looked down upon or berated for it. The cycle continues.

It's just human nature. I don't care how free you're utopian society would be, there would always be larger, 'mature', powerful groups of people who will negatively view the actions and freedoms and liberties and how they feel they are being exploited and abused by younger generations lending to the decay of civilization and human accomplishment (sometimes out of genuine disregard for their action, or jealousy, or anger at one's own age - both mentally and physically).

Gods_Mercenary · Jan 13, 2007, 05:06 pm

Society always pushes back against its own excesses, an immoral society couldn't hold for long because people would eventually start looking for moral guidance, it's a natural instinct among social animals to want to set limits.

The Sexorcist · Jan 16, 2007, 11:38 pm

I'm not talking about any kind of society specifically--just any type of modern democratic/industrialized society, where infrastructure is solid, stable government, etc. While I think this an important issue, I wouldn't try to push this idea on the third world where there are so many more pressing issues than whether or not porn is illegal.

Thejandman · Jan 17, 2007, 08:33 pm

If there was pervesity among everyone it would not be considered pervesity.
If everyone did it, would it be wrong? There would simply be another problem
or judgement of a pervert. For example would it be wrong to do something that is right now and wrong somewhere else. What if the world we lived in now is considered a "perverted" society to another cultural? The society will change and move in directions by the ideas of the people's point of view.

Cadre · Jan 17, 2007, 09:21 pm

Quote:

Quote by: The Sexorcist

I'm not talking about any kind of society specifically--just any type of modern democratic/industrialized society, where infrastructure is solid, stable government, etc. While I think this an important issue, I wouldn't try to push this idea on the third world where there are so many more pressing issues than whether or not porn is illegal.

So your saying that whether or not porn is legal is an important issue in advanced/first-world/whatever societies?

Pretty sad state of affairs we're in.

Praxius · Jan 18, 2007, 09:48 am

Quote:

Quote by: Cadre

So your saying that whether or not porn is legal is an important issue in advanced/first-world/whatever societies?

Pretty sad state of affairs we're in.

Well none of the important things are being delt with, so why not start with the easy stuff first?

The Sexorcist · Jan 19, 2007, 02:34 am

[quote=Cadre;329523]So your saying that whether or not porn is legal is an important issue in advanced/first-world/whatever societies?[quote]

No, I'm saying that in a society with a healthy social safety net (like America, which believe it or not, does have a fairly reliable welfare system), issues like 50% unemployment or a high infant mortality are not an pressing concern. That opens the door to "higher" issues, like whether or not social liberties are .

Jan 11, 2007, 09:50 pm	#1 (permalink) (top)
The Sexorcist In-Ya-Face-Subtlety Location: Colo-RAD-o Posts: 77	Peversity Is Spreading; It's About Time If I can remake America in any way I wanted, if I was allowed to completley redesign the social fabric of America, here's what I would do. I would turn America into a den of sin. I would transform it into a mecca for every disgusting, bizzare and perverse vice we all have. I would help pornography, sex shops, liquor stores, casinos, head shops, bars and strip clubs flourish. I would allow completely uncensored TV and radio to be broadcast, and Howard Stern would be the President of the FCC. I would allow marijuana, LSD and psilocybin to be legally bought and consumed. I would allow people to marry whoever or whatever their sick little minds want to. I would erase all sodomy and anti-gay legislation immediately. I have always had the image of America as truly the land of the free; social restraints are non-existant, and social policy is dictated by the Golden Rule; treat others as you want to be treated. Over the years, I've discovered the unfortunate dark side to the US, wide and deep. But no matter what my opinions of the governemnt and it's actions have been, I have always been comforted by the fact that the basic, fundamental, overiding philosophy of the United States is idea that the individual is the only moral compass, and that as long as an individual's actions do interfere with another's then they are within the boundaries of acceptable behavior; no mater what one thinks about another's behavior, persecution is held in check by this overall philosophy to life in the US. if anything, this has let me be able to sleep, the warm knowledge that we still are a great country, out side of our government's actions here and abroad. Now, I am begining to think we are losing this most important of values. THe encroaching moral police have slowly begun to move in with a rigid set of "morals" that threaten us all, even those who insist on them. Now, more than ever, we need perversity and immoral behavior, to reaffirm the fact that, no matter what our personal beliefs are, this is America, goddamit, and this country for the people, by the people, has always upheld the idea that this is a free and open land, and no matter what you are into, drugs, sex, porn, booze, gambling, prostitutes, swearing or just being a general depraved individual, we are above creating laws to crack down on these actions just because someone, somewhere finds it "offensive". Enough is enough. The American people need obscenity; they need to be offended, they need to have uncomfortable ideas and lifestyles always around the corner to remind them that this is the cost of a free society; dealing with things you don't personally like. I've always said no one has a right to not be offended, let's start using this tool to spread social freedom at any cost, and fight agaisnt against respressive moral egislation before we've gone to far into the gates of P.C. Soobaaroobaawoo.

Jan 11, 2007, 10:27 pm	#3 (permalink) (top)
The Sexorcist In-Ya-Face-Subtlety Location: Colo-RAD-o Posts: 77	...any reasons? Or I am just supposed to trust you? Soobaaroobaawoo.

Jan 12, 2007, 12:34 am	#4 (permalink) (top)
Jack formerly Isherwood Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 13,763	My first thought was that you should head down to Las Vegas. Most of what you propose can be found there, 24/7/365. I see your point and agree. Good use of hyperbole, by the way. The Forum Rules Radical Atheist Heathen Queer Let's agree to respect each others views, no matter how wrong yours may be. (Ashleigh Brilliant)

Jan 12, 2007, 02:18 am	#5 (permalink) (top)
Cadre a thinking thing Location: Ajax, ON Posts: 174	There will always be a line drawn somewhere. That is the nature of government and civilization. Without impositions and boundaries, the will of the people becomes the will of the individual. What you have then is anarchy. Please don't act as though you feel somehow morally, ethically, or in any other way restrained. When observing American values, freedom of speech, and individuality, the country is pushing boundaries, has been, and will continue too (and for good cause). It only requires 20 minutes of reading in a history text book to see how far things have come. I understand and empathize with your concern towards these principles in your country, but don't confuse these ideas with the concurrent reality. They are fantastical notions, often glorified as in some sort of '1984'-esque utopian society gone bad. Yes, I want to be able to stand and scream my opinions at the top of my lungs, with another fellow right beside me doing the exact same but disagreeing. I find security, comradery, and respect in this. But it is a fine line between this and 'needing obscenity and offense', remember we are all subjective beings, and what one person finds as obscene and offensive can be severely damaging, and destructive to a society and it's respectful participants. Go spend a summer in Cambodia before you make a speech is righteous as this one. Seems to me like a lot of intellectuals/philosophers/politics students andor thinkers from my generation are just looking to push boundaries, to find some sort of external stimulus adrenaline rush. Alot of it is just for entertainments sake though, and we all know how excessive that can be. Sorry if this is incohernet, I'm tired as hell... Never assume that truth connotates purity or nicety.

Jan 12, 2007, 11:02 am	#9 (permalink) (top)
Zhavric Made of pure win. Posts: 3,704	Sexorcist, I'd settle for a country that doesn't come down with a 5th grade case of the giggles at the mention of what you talked about. We have a terrible & immature relationship with sexuality and drug use that stems from our puritanical background. We don't need more sin. We need to be less uptight about sin. I don't believe in biblical sin. I'm just stating sin because it's faster than listing all the activities that sexoricst mentioned. Theists: supplying volconvo with lose since 2004.

Jan 12, 2007, 10:10 am	#8 (permalink) (top)
Praxius Mass'Debator Posts: 4,724	If you really were allowed to do whatever you want, you wouldn't have to worry about going to jail for something as trivial as recreational drug use or nudity, etc. I don't see a problem with this proposal. Sure there'd be no control over the population in general (Besides those who interfere with another's well being.) but everything would be equal, both good and bad. Then again, you have the other problem of a country without a set of order, is that it'd be easy to invade and defeat in theory. How would you be able to form a decent army for defense? Chances are you won't be able to. Then you get invaded, then you're taken over, then you're back to a government, laws and perhaps more oppression then before.

Jan 12, 2007, 12:16 pm	#10 (permalink) (top)
The Sexorcist In-Ya-Face-Subtlety Location: Colo-RAD-o Posts: 77	Praxius- I don't see how this has anything to do with my topic. How would a truly free society lend itself towards being invaded easier? Zhavric- I think the accpetance (beign less uptight) of "sin" will come with my proposal. Like I said, the fact that these popular (and they are popular) activities are openly and freely done, people will become accustomed to living with it and acceptance will flourish. Soobaaroobaawoo.

Jan 13, 2007, 03:13 pm	#12 (permalink) (top)
Cadre a thinking thing Location: Ajax, ON Posts: 174	People will always be 'uptight' about sin from generation to generation. One age group will push boundaries to a certain limit, enjoying liberties and exploring there world/existence to a point where they stop, and re-evaluate there standings and values in life and 'mature'. This isn't to say that we stop enjoying life, but that we reach a point where as individuals we believe we have developed a strong set of moral codes and principles (through that boundary pushing maturing process) that we believe are just and fair and should be used to govern our actions as individuals, and are the best bet for society as well. Obviously the generations that come after them will be already accustomed to their traditions and moral values/ethical views through the agents of socialization they undergo in the adolescent years. However just as the previous generation did, they will push boundaries even further, and will be looked down upon or berated for it. The cycle continues. It's just human nature. I don't care how free you're utopian society would be, there would always be larger, 'mature', powerful groups of people who will negatively view the actions and freedoms and liberties and how they feel they are being exploited and abused by younger generations lending to the decay of civilization and human accomplishment (sometimes out of genuine disregard for their action, or jealousy, or anger at one's own age - both mentally and physically). Never assume that truth connotates purity or nicety. Last edited by Cadre; Jan 13, 2007 at 05:01 pm.

Jan 13, 2007, 05:06 pm	#13 (permalink) (top)
Gods_Mercenary Altruism Assassin Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,286	Society always pushes back against its own excesses, an immoral society couldn't hold for long because people would eventually start looking for moral guidance, it's a natural instinct among social animals to want to set limits. “Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.” -Albert Einstein

Jan 16, 2007, 11:38 pm	#14 (permalink) (top)
The Sexorcist In-Ya-Face-Subtlety Location: Colo-RAD-o Posts: 77	I'm not talking about any kind of society specifically--just any type of modern democratic/industrialized society, where infrastructure is solid, stable government, etc. While I think this an important issue, I wouldn't try to push this idea on the third world where there are so many more pressing issues than whether or not porn is illegal. Soobaaroobaawoo.

Jan 17, 2007, 08:33 pm	#15 (permalink) (top)
Thejandman Sedimentary Rock Posts: 1	If there was pervesity among everyone it would not be considered pervesity. If everyone did it, would it be wrong? There would simply be another problem or judgement of a pervert. For example would it be wrong to do something that is right now and wrong somewhere else. What if the world we lived in now is considered a "perverted" society to another cultural? The society will change and move in directions by the ideas of the people's point of view. Jand

Jan 19, 2007, 02:34 am	#18 (permalink) (top)
The Sexorcist In-Ya-Face-Subtlety Location: Colo-RAD-o Posts: 77	[quote=Cadre;329523]So your saying that whether or not porn is legal is an important issue in advanced/first-world/whatever societies?[quote] No, I'm saying that in a society with a healthy social safety net (like America, which believe it or not, does have a fairly reliable welfare system), issues like 50% unemployment or a high infant mortality are not an pressing concern. That opens the door to "higher" issues, like whether or not social liberties are . Soobaaroobaawoo.