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Heuristic · Jan 11, 2007, 09:09 pm

We seem to be living in a society which is obsessed with surveillance.

Cameras on our mobile phones.

Reality TV shows such as Big Brother.

CCTV cameras everywhere.

And so on..

What do you think of the fact that we're estimated to appear on an average of 200 cameras a day?

Do you think this obsession with suveillance increases or decreases our personal freedom?

Dicuss.

**Jack** · Jan 11, 2007, 09:20 pm

Isn't England using CCTV far more than the U.S.? That's the impression I've gotten.

I think it decreases my perception of personal freedom more than it actually detracts from it. I still do what I want. What I do in public isn't anything that would cause me grief if caught on camera. What I do at home is another story, and why I don't have a webcam. Perhaps I don't object as much as some because a) I see the need for cameras on banks, parking lots, etc. and b) my freedoms are already somewhat restricted, so I'm already aware that my actions may be monitored at any time without my consent. That's why I do very little in public that could in any way be considered illegal.

The Sexorcist · Jan 11, 2007, 09:28 pm

I can't believe that people actually buy GPS devices. You don't think someone is collecting data on where you go with those things? People are blinded by technology, the newest, best, shiniest electronic trinkets, completely obolivious to the full scope of what these things can do, good and bad, known and unknown. Especially on your cell phone; anyone can tap into that information and know exactly where you are at any time. This doesn't even seem to bother people.

People are dumb.

**Jack** · Jan 12, 2007, 01:49 am

Aren't most GPS devices only receivers, not transponders?

People have long been able to tap into your home cordless phone. Before that it was easy to tap into wired phone lines, and telegraph lines. Communication is notoriously insecure, for good reason. If every human were so easily traced and tracked, the FBI would have to stop putting out its Most Wanted list and the crime solution rate would soar. They wouldn't waste all that technology just on the average citizen without first testing it out on a fair target, one that won't worry the sheeple.

Osborn F Enready · Jan 12, 2007, 02:21 am

Quote:

Heuristic said:
What do you think of the fact that we're estimated to appear on an average of 200 cameras a day?

I am far different from the average, and people who accept the average should be pissed off. (in my opinion)

Quote:

Heuristic said:
Do you think this obsession with suveillance increases or decreases our personal freedom?

Both, depending on if you are an individual, or the government.

I have no problem with personal use of cameras by individuals on THEIR property. I have a huge problem with any government (local state federal) using cameras to monitor their populace.

Autolykos · Jan 12, 2007, 09:58 am

My dad and I had a discussion about this on our way to the airport. I was going to fly back to Florida after spending the holidays with my family in Pennsylvania.

I asked him his opinion about speed-monitoring cameras. He pointed out that most people, including him, would bitch about them because they could no longer get away with speeding -- at least, not as easily. To that, I replied that I have no problem with speed-monitoring cameras in theory. What I have a problem with are the speed limits being as low as they are.

As an aside, my dad then brought up a commercial about the new Shelby Cobra. An American is watching his Cobra being unloaded from a German boat. One of the German sailors asks him, "You didn't find a car in Europe that was good enough?" Intermixed with scenes of the Cobra speeding down the Autobahn, the American replies, "I couldn't find a speed limit in America that was high enough".

- Rob

brien · Jan 12, 2007, 12:14 pm

It depends upon what the camera is used for and who is using it.

I rather like the idea of the Police Patrol car cam because it can record everything that an officer does on a traffic stop.

Osborn F Enready · Jan 13, 2007, 03:37 pm

Quote:

Auto said:
As an aside, my dad then brought up a commercial about the new Shelby Cobra. An American is watching his Cobra being unloaded from a German boat. One of the German sailors asks him, "You didn't find a car in Europe that was good enough?" Intermixed with scenes of the Cobra speeding down the Autobahn, the American replies, "I couldn't find a speed limit in America that was high enough".

I too have seen that, and I can fully sympathize with the point being made.

Quote:

brien said:
I rather like the idea of the Police Patrol car cam because it can record everything that an officer does on a traffic stop.

As long as it is available to the citizen involved in the stop equally as the state, I too have no problem with this application.

Compugasm · Feb 8, 2007, 02:08 pm

CNBC Investigates: Big Brother, Big Business - 2hr program, on how your data is stolen and compromised. One solid point this video mentions: The danger is, where is that recorded information stored, who has access to it, how long do they keep it.

There is information about everyone stored by 3rd party companies, and this seemingly irrelevant data is pieced together and used against you. This data is protected legally if it was on your home computer. But when it's compiled by 3rd parties, it isn't. When it's lost, or made searchable on the web, then all they can do is say "oops, sorry about that" when your personal information is compromised.

S0PHR0SYNE · Feb 13, 2007, 10:00 am

Cameras in police cars and on the corners of busy streets are fine; it’s not really a violation of privacy if you're already in public. That would be a paradox. Surveillance in the private domain is a different matter. I personally don't mind, but a person's desire for privacy is completely understandable. Wiretapping and eavesdropping should never be used unless they are justified.

The problem is who decides when it is justified. The problem is the corrupt individuals who will use surveillance for their personal gain. And this applies to the public sector as well.

The best solution is already manifesting. Reverse surveillance. The ‘Little Brother’ to their ‘Big Brother’. I think that the government is just beginning to realize that we are watching them a lot more closely than we used to. With camera phones and similar technology, there will always be a million little eyes watching them, and if they do anything stupid or illegal, it will be on the Internet within a day. Just look at the ‘macaca’ incident. I'm glad society is evolving into an age in which people realize that they are more powerful than those who govern them.

Praxius · Feb 13, 2007, 11:56 am

Just recently they placed cameras at a local downtown stop after bar hopping, here in Halifax. Too many brawls and jumpings have occured in the last couple of months that they had no choice.

It was also right next to the location where that US Sailor was stabbed a while back, on leave during training with Canadian vessels.

I have no problem with cameras in public or in commercial areas, but leave them out of my home and personal space and I'm happy.

I mean, what would you be doing in public that you wouldn't want anybody else to see besides soemthing illegal? (I know a general question) ~ When I am out in public, I am walking from one location to the next, and nothing more.

While I agree with people having their own privacy and I agree Big Brother is in general a bad idea, with the way society is going now, with random violence and crimes being commited much worse then in the past (As I have seen around where I live) it's the best option at the time.

I personally stopped watching many reality TV shows.... they're all the same and all about pointless crap..... like I care who's got an alliance with who and who's gonna be voted off because they they can't clean, etc......

*twirls finger* Whoopie Doo.

Compugasm · Feb 13, 2007, 05:14 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Praxius

*twirls finger* Whoopie Doo.

I got tired of it when "The Real World: Season 2" started some fifteen years ago. My first thought was "they're making a sequel of this terrible show?" I couldn't have guessed that half the shows on TV now would be Reality, or a CSI clone.

Praxius · Feb 13, 2007, 08:20 pm

Oh don't get me going about CSI....... Stupid bastards.... half the things they use to solve the crimes don't exist...... like the times when they zoom in a crappy security camera.... zoom into buddy's sunglasses, grabs the reflection of the guy shooting him.... and get a crisp, clean shot of the bad guy......

Now I'm a professional photo editor and I've done my research and those bastards can not create a face from 2 square pixels of information..... two square dots are two square dots..... you blow them up larger and what do you get? BIG BLURRY DOTS!!!!!

Stupid CSI...... It used to be good.... until I realized they were lying to me!

Jan 11, 2007, 09:09 pm	#1 (permalink) (top)
Heuristic Molten Ash Location: Liverpool, England Posts: 32	Surveillance We seem to be living in a society which is obsessed with surveillance. Cameras on our mobile phones. Reality TV shows such as Big Brother. CCTV cameras everywhere. And so on.. What do you think of the fact that we're estimated to appear on an average of 200 cameras a day? Do you think this obsession with suveillance increases or decreases our personal freedom? Dicuss. Sometimes life seems like a dream, especially when I look down and see that I forgot to put on my pants.

Jan 11, 2007, 09:20 pm	#2 (permalink) (top)
Jack formerly Isherwood Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 12,817	Isn't England using CCTV far more than the U.S.? That's the impression I've gotten. I think it decreases my perception of personal freedom more than it actually detracts from it. I still do what I want. What I do in public isn't anything that would cause me grief if caught on camera. What I do at home is another story, and why I don't have a webcam. Perhaps I don't object as much as some because a) I see the need for cameras on banks, parking lots, etc. and b) my freedoms are already somewhat restricted, so I'm already aware that my actions may be monitored at any time without my consent. That's why I do very little in public that could in any way be considered illegal. The Forum Rules Radical Atheist Tumblr Let's agree to respect each others views, no matter how wrong yours may be. (Ashleigh Brilliant)

Jan 11, 2007, 09:28 pm	#3 (permalink) (top)
The Sexorcist In-Ya-Face-Subtlety Location: Colo-RAD-o Posts: 74	I can't believe that people actually buy GPS devices. You don't think someone is collecting data on where you go with those things? People are blinded by technology, the newest, best, shiniest electronic trinkets, completely obolivious to the full scope of what these things can do, good and bad, known and unknown. Especially on your cell phone; anyone can tap into that information and know exactly where you are at any time. This doesn't even seem to bother people. People are dumb. Soobaaroobaawoo.

Jan 12, 2007, 01:49 am	#4 (permalink) (top)
Jack formerly Isherwood Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 12,817	Aren't most GPS devices only receivers, not transponders? People have long been able to tap into your home cordless phone. Before that it was easy to tap into wired phone lines, and telegraph lines. Communication is notoriously insecure, for good reason. If every human were so easily traced and tracked, the FBI would have to stop putting out its Most Wanted list and the crime solution rate would soar. They wouldn't waste all that technology just on the average citizen without first testing it out on a fair target, one that won't worry the sheeple. The Forum Rules Radical Atheist Tumblr Let's agree to respect each others views, no matter how wrong yours may be. (Ashleigh Brilliant)

Jan 12, 2007, 09:58 am	#6 (permalink) (top)
Autolykos Logical Phallussy Location: In your internets. Posts: 2,991	My dad and I had a discussion about this on our way to the airport. I was going to fly back to Florida after spending the holidays with my family in Pennsylvania. I asked him his opinion about speed-monitoring cameras. He pointed out that most people, including him, would bitch about them because they could no longer get away with speeding -- at least, not as easily. To that, I replied that I have no problem with speed-monitoring cameras in theory. What I have a problem with are the speed limits being as low as they are. As an aside, my dad then brought up a commercial about the new Shelby Cobra. An American is watching his Cobra being unloaded from a German boat. One of the German sailors asks him, "You didn't find a car in Europe that was good enough?" Intermixed with scenes of the Cobra speeding down the Autobahn, the American replies, "I couldn't find a speed limit in America that was high enough". - Rob "I'd rather be free and alive!" -- Ron Paul Religion isn't the greatest threat to mankind -- authoritarianism is. The Anarcheion Zeitgeist

Jan 12, 2007, 12:14 pm	#7 (permalink) (top)
brien Iceberg Location: Connecticut Posts: 5,691	It depends upon what the camera is used for and who is using it. I rather like the idea of the Police Patrol car cam because it can record everything that an officer does on a traffic stop. Brien the Iceberg If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything. M.T.

Feb 8, 2007, 02:08 pm	#9 (permalink) (top)
Compugasm Son of X51 Location: San Diego Posts: 3,568	CNBC Investigates: Big Brother, Big Business - 2hr program, on how your data is stolen and compromised. One solid point this video mentions: The danger is, where is that recorded information stored, who has access to it, how long do they keep it. There is information about everyone stored by 3rd party companies, and this seemingly irrelevant data is pieced together and used against you. This data is protected legally if it was on your home computer. But when it's compiled by 3rd parties, it isn't. When it's lost, or made searchable on the web, then all they can do is say "oops, sorry about that" when your personal information is compromised. I'd like to thank Charlie Hodge, bringing me scarves and water. Last edited by Compugasm; Feb 8, 2007 at 02:38 pm.

Feb 13, 2007, 10:00 am	#10 (permalink) (top)
S0PHR0SYNE Look both ways Posts: 3	Cameras in police cars and on the corners of busy streets are fine; it’s not really a violation of privacy if you're already in public. That would be a paradox. Surveillance in the private domain is a different matter. I personally don't mind, but a person's desire for privacy is completely understandable. Wiretapping and eavesdropping should never be used unless they are justified. The problem is who decides when it is justified. The problem is the corrupt individuals who will use surveillance for their personal gain. And this applies to the public sector as well. The best solution is already manifesting. Reverse surveillance. The ‘Little Brother’ to their ‘Big Brother’. I think that the government is just beginning to realize that we are watching them a lot more closely than we used to. With camera phones and similar technology, there will always be a million little eyes watching them, and if they do anything stupid or illegal, it will be on the Internet within a day. Just look at the ‘macaca’ incident. I'm glad society is evolving into an age in which people realize that they are more powerful than those who govern them.

Feb 13, 2007, 11:56 am	#11 (permalink) (top)
Praxius Mass'Debator Posts: 4,723	Just recently they placed cameras at a local downtown stop after bar hopping, here in Halifax. Too many brawls and jumpings have occured in the last couple of months that they had no choice. It was also right next to the location where that US Sailor was stabbed a while back, on leave during training with Canadian vessels. I have no problem with cameras in public or in commercial areas, but leave them out of my home and personal space and I'm happy. I mean, what would you be doing in public that you wouldn't want anybody else to see besides soemthing illegal? (I know a general question) ~ When I am out in public, I am walking from one location to the next, and nothing more. While I agree with people having their own privacy and I agree Big Brother is in general a bad idea, with the way society is going now, with random violence and crimes being commited much worse then in the past (As I have seen around where I live) it's the best option at the time. I personally stopped watching many reality TV shows.... they're all the same and all about pointless crap..... like I care who's got an alliance with who and who's gonna be voted off because they they can't clean, etc...... twirls finger Whoopie Doo.

Feb 13, 2007, 08:20 pm	#13 (permalink) (top)
Praxius Mass'Debator Posts: 4,723	Oh don't get me going about CSI....... Stupid bastards.... half the things they use to solve the crimes don't exist...... like the times when they zoom in a crappy security camera.... zoom into buddy's sunglasses, grabs the reflection of the guy shooting him.... and get a crisp, clean shot of the bad guy...... Now I'm a professional photo editor and I've done my research and those bastards can not create a face from 2 square pixels of information..... two square dots are two square dots..... you blow them up larger and what do you get? BIG BLURRY DOTS!!!!! Stupid CSI...... It used to be good.... until I realized they were lying to me!