'Peter Pan' surgery morally acceptable?

[pikatore]

Surgery to stunt girl's growth sparks debate - Children's Health - MSNBC.com

Surgery to stunt girl’s growth sparks debate Parents say drastic treatment allows them to take better care of their child In a case fraught with ethical questions, the parents of a severely mentally and physically disabled child have stunted her growth to keep their little “pillow angel” a manageable and more portable size. The bedridden 9-year-old girl had her uterus and breast tissue removed at a Seattle hospital and received large doses of hormones to halt her growth. She is now 4-foot-5; her parents say she would otherwise probably reach a normal 5-foot-6.

I find this an absolutely perverse thing to do on the parent's part. They think that caring for their daughter includes removing sexual tissue and giving her hormones to not even allow her to go through puberty?! Not grow up and die old like any other human has the right to? Live as some grotesque example of how sick and deluded some people can be?

If the parents are so pathetic that they don't want to care for their child as a normal, human being, and think that pumping her full of hormones and surgically shorting her limbs will HELP her in any manner, they need to get their heads checked. Parents like those ones shouldn't be allowed to keep thier disabled child, if they would do such horrible things to her for the sake of practicality.

Abortion is one thing, but this one just obliterates where I draw my ethical lines.

Comments?

[kpow]

im shocked!
these people shoudlnt be allowed to be parents!
im shocked....too shocked to actually think about this....theres a tear in my eye ATM. If i can ill comment another time. i just acctually shock by that.

[kubedawg]

Well it depends on the girl's future. If the girl's future is to die or suffer for the rest of her life unless their parents do something like this, then I think it's fine. Otherwise, doing this for the interest of the parent's and not the child is completely wrong...

[pikatore]

Quote by: kubedawg Well it depends on the girl's future. If the girl's future is to die or suffer for the rest of her life unless their parents do something like this, then I think it's fine. Otherwise, doing this for the interest of the parent's and not the child is completely wrong...

She had severe brain damage, granted. Her future would be to live a life under the limitations of that condition.

That gives NO reason for the parents to not even give her the chance to go to through puberty, or even LOOK like she is older than 10. God knows what she will look like when she dies from natural causes.

Why don't they take the surgery even further so they can carry her around in a briefcase? Why need arms or legs at all?

The surgery wasn't supposed to be beneficial to her in any manner. Is was to make her more 'portable', and prevent the parents to have to deal with periods and like during puberty. It was purely for the parents' convenience, and not hers. How appalling. To think adults could do such horrid things.

[Chaossaber314]

In the interest of making it easier to take care of her I can understand it.

I had a neighbor whose husband passed away and was left to raise her son who was the victim of malpractice that pretty much turned him into a vegetable. He pretty much grew up in a hospital bed in their family room with a bunch of machines hooked up to him. She was just barely able to take care of him mainly because I believe she had been a nurse herself when she was younger. Fortunately, they recieved a lot of money from the hospital in a settlement so she was able to stay home and take care of him. He lived to be in his 30's.

Anyways, if someone was going to be in this same position, I can understand the decision to do this. It might not be the decision that I would choose, but I'm certainly not going to judge someone for it.

[pikatore]

Quote by: Chaossaber314 It might not be the decision that I would choose, but I'm certainly not going to judge someone for it.

I am.

[Lotharia]

Quote by: pikatore Surgery to stunt girl's growth sparks debate - Children's Health - MSNBC.com I find this an absolutely perverse thing to do on the parent's part. They think that caring for their daughter includes removing sexual tissue and giving her hormones to not even allow her to go through puberty?! Not grow up and die old like any other human has the right to? Live as some grotesque example of how sick and deluded some people can be? If the parents are so pathetic that they don't want to care for their child as a normal, human being, and think that pumping her full of hormones and surgically shorting her limbs will HELP her in any manner, they need to get their heads checked. Parents like those ones shouldn't be allowed to keep thier disabled child, if they would do such horrible things to her for the sake of practicality. Abortion is one thing, but this one just obliterates where I draw my ethical lines. Comments?

It might help you to actually read about the surgery that was done and why it was done. There was no limb shortening - where did you come up with that one?

This surgery was done not only to help the parents take care of her better, but to make HER life more comfortable. She is NOT going to grow up and and die old like other people do - she is going to merely exist - her sexual organs and puberty will just serve to make her uncomfortable and possibly even lie in her bed in pain.

If you had any compassion for the child, you'd read the whole article and understand.

[pikatore]

Quote by: Lotharia It might help you to actually read about the surgery that was done and why it was done. There was no limb shortening - where did you come up with that one? This surgery was done not only to help the parents take care of her better, but to make HER life more comfortable. She is NOT going to grow up and and die old like other people do - she is going to merely exist - her sexual organs and puberty will just serve to make her uncomfortable and possibly even lie in her bed in pain. If you had any compassion for the child, you'd read the whole article and understand.

I read the whole article, which seems to mention that fact that there is CONTROVERSY to begin with. So I am not acting on impulse, I've thought it through.

Sorry, I took the phrase 'stunting growth' to actually mean shortening limbs. Regardless, surgically removing her uterus and breasts and turning her into a eunich is unacceptable. She will never know puberty, and grow as naturally as possible.

Don't insult me. I am totally against this whole thing because I am putting the child first, not the parents. Pain is a part of life, and periods are a part of female life. The parents have no right to restrict these natural processes to make thier lives more comfortable. Remember, this producure has obviously been done with practicality and convenience in mind.

To distort her growth patterns and cause this girl to inevitably die in the body of a child sickens me. You tell me who's showing more compassion for the girl.

As i said before, since a wheelchair can be quite inconvenient at times, why not just chop her arms and legs off and stuff her in a suitcase? That's portable and convenient.

Maybe they can just stick a tube in her bladder and run it into the plumbing, then they wont even have to lift her to the toilet.

Ahhh, the possibilties.

[Praxius]

They did it basically because they'd have to care for her for the rest of her or their lives.....

They had two options, they said. One was to put her in an institution and let professionals take care of her, or to have this operation so she can be easily managed by the parents and keep her home with her family.

Either option is not an easy option to come to.... I imagine they've put a lot of thought into this.....

I'm not saying I am for it, but think about it.... if I had the option of either being stuck in an institution for the rest of my life, staring at lime green walls and other patients picking feces out of their arses and drawing pictures on the lime green walls..... or be close to my family, whom already have a difficult life as it is I imagine, have the opportunity to be out and about once in a while?

Although they removed those things from her..... would they really serve her any purpose anyways? She can't move, nor is there much of a chance she'll be heading to prom and having a good ol romp here and there.....

It's a morality issue, that's for sure.... right up there with abortions....

[rez]

Her condition has left her in an infant state, unable to sit up, roll over, hold a toy or walk or talk. Her parents say she will never get better. She is alert, startles easily, and smiles, but does not maintain eye contact, according to her parents, who call the brown-haired little girl their “pillow angel.”

Quote by: pikatore They think that caring for their daughter includes removing sexual tissue and giving her hormones to not even allow her to go through puberty?!

Seems as though this little girl will never know much about what it is like to be a human being let alone what puberty feels like.

Quote by: pikatore Live as some grotesque example of how sick and deluded some people can be?

Clearly, this is a choice that should be left to the parents simply because there is no correct way to go about something like this. People should consider the moral implications when strangers start to judge and question the family’s ability to make the right decision on the matter. Anybodies opinion, besides the relatives involved, is baseless due to the lack of knowledge and emotion.

[pikatore]

I say 'sick' for the removing of pubic tissue and the pumping of hormones.

I say 'deluded' for thinking it's beneficial.

Whether or not thier emotional state makes those things to them seem less horrible is irrelevant.

[Autolykos]

Well, Pikatore, it looks like your mind has been made up from the beginning. You seem to have created this thread to "bait" other members so you could then point your finger at them and tell them how "sick" and "deluded" they are. In so doing, you reaffirm your own opinion in your own mind.

Have fun with that.

- Rob

[pikatore]

Quote by: Autolykos Well, Pikatore, it looks like your mind has been made up from the beginning. You seem to have created this thread to "bait" other members so you could then point your finger at them and tell them how "sick" and "deluded" they are. In so doing, you reaffirm your own opinion in your own mind. Have fun with that. - Rob

I think you took it personally.

Secondly, that's the idea of an OP in a debating forum. To draw in opposition, and debate thier arguments. Get used to it.

[rez]

Quote by: pikatore I think you took it personally. Secondly, that's the idea of an OP in a debating forum. To draw in opposition, and debate thier arguments. Get used to it.

The debate revolves around the notion that if we were in the parents shoes we would make better decisions. I do not see how my decision would benefit the family, let alone your decision.

[Autolykos]

Quote by: pikatore I think you took it personally.

You think wrong. :)

Secondly, that's the idea of an OP in a debating forum. To draw in opposition, and debate thier arguments. Get used to it.

Except that you haven't debated:

Quote by: rez Seems as though this little girl will never know much about what it is like to be a human being let alone what puberty feels like. Clearly, this is a choice that should be left to the parents simply because there is no correct way to go about something like this. People should consider the moral implications when strangers start to judge and question the family’s ability to make the right decision on the matter. Anybodies opinion, besides the relatives involved, is baseless due to the lack of knowledge and emotion.

Quote by: pikatore I say 'sick' for the removing of pubic tissue and the pumping of hormones. I say 'deluded' for thinking it's beneficial. Whether or not thier emotional state makes those things to them seem less horrible is irrelevant.

I rest my case. You are not debating (i.e. presenting original responses to others' counter-arguments), merely repeating what you have already said in your OP.

- Rob

[brien]

Is there a violation of any law here? If not, what these people do with their child is their business and nobody else's concern. Moral / ethical nannys need to retire from their long nosed judgements since the ethics of these folks are independent of any other's judgement.

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: pikatore I find this an absolutely perverse thing to do on the parent's part. They think that caring for their daughter includes removing sexual tissue and giving her hormones to not even allow her to go through puberty?! Not grow up and die old like any other human has the right to? Live as some grotesque example of how sick and deluded some people can be? Comments?

First, why a second thread on this exact story? Ashley X

Second, your judgement is itself a perverse view of someone else's ethics. Perhaps you would like to care for theis person for the rest of her natural life, using your own money. Perhaps you would wish to impregnate her and care for her subsequent children?

There are practical issues here. She won't be living a normal life. Why should she have to go through sexual maturation is there won't be any offspring? Would it add to the quality of her life?

[Poledancer]

I started the original thread but just wanted to say:

Have you ever changed a baby's nappy before?

Have you ever changed a grown adult's nappy? with the adult potentially being heavier than you and biting, screaming , kicking etc. Imagine doing that every single day , several times a day for the rest of your life. Would you still have the same view?

That does not justify the actions ethically, but given the lack of support the parents stated they had from the local authorities in terms of care for their child, I do not know if they had a choice.

Would putting her in a home or euthanasia have been better?

[brien]

Quote by: Poledancer I started the original thread but just wanted to say: Have you ever changed a baby's nappy before? Have you ever changed a grown adult's nappy? with the adult potentially being heavier than you and biting, screaming , kicking etc. Imagine doing that every single day , several times a day for the rest of your life. Would you still have the same view? That does not justify the actions ethically, but given the lack of support the parents stated they had from the local authorities in terms of care for their child, I do not know if they had a choice. Would putting her in a home or euthanasia have been better?

Have you ever changed a grown adult's nappy? with the adult potentially being heavier than you and biting, screaming , kicking etc. Imagine doing that every single day , several times a day for the rest of your life

So what. If someone wants to care for an adult in this manner, and they love them so it matters not, who is anyone else to pass judgement?

Would putting her in a home or euthanasia have been better?

Only the family is equipped to make the decision to institutionalize. Euthanasia is out of the question as it is against the law.

[Fonceai]

I thought the parents did the right thing.

Their daughter is severely disabled, so she really isn't going to have a normal life anyway.

There are a lot of conditions that occur in disabled people that are triggered by puberty and adulthood.

All things considered, by keeping her in a state of perpetual childhood, they are both making it easier to care for her and ensuring that she doesn't develop other, more painful conditions.

Obviously they haven't done anything illegal, and I'm sure the doctors had to jump through all sorts of hoops before they could perform the surgery.

Ultimately, they are making life easier for their daughter and for themselves by taking advantage of the capabilities of medical science.

It's a decision no parent should have to make, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. Who are we to judge them for making a decision in such a rare and extreme circumstance?