Female "gold-diggers" and the laissez-faire state

[Mia]

People are dumb. Looks fade, money and ability to produce it can go away in an instant - if you don't have things MUCH deeper than that you are in deep doo, or at the least you are living a superficial life not worth having :-)

Now if my guy happens to have looks and happens to make a good income, that's a bonus. As you pointed out, it becomes important to a certain level if you want children.

But it's not the most important thing in life.

And yes, I will go to grad school. I'm getting started in my own business that will allow it. My guy is helping me to do so and I will be paying him back.

You can actually do everything you listed even with children and your husband's income. I'll send you an email if that's alright.

[syracusa]

Sure. :)

[Leopard]

I just love how the basic, unlying attack here by her is not even addressed:
That 'evil laissez-faire Capitalism ' creates a society which perverts peoples values of love into some sort of materlialistic, unnatural (or at least cold and inhuman) thing.

First, to address your other points, everyone makes value judgements in every decision they make. In relationships they weigh: wealth, attractiveness, humor, compatibility, personality, energy, bedtime prowess, child-rearing ability, etc. If one person determines that compatibility is much more valued (for themselves) than attractiveness, fine - that is what they believe will make them happiest. Same for the person who values wealth over all other factors. There is no 'wrong' answer here - it is solely up to the individual.

now, back to your initial assumption: actually, ma'am, you have it backwards - the freer a society is, then the better people will be able to make decisions about things that affect them... and relationships tend to affect people quite deeply. Being 'free' does NOT mean everyone will be automatically happy, but, they will have the greatest chance to capture whatever it is that they believe makes them happy...

michael

[white rice]

Originally posted by Mia, The world has always worked this way. At one time, it was the best protector/prividor matched to the best child-bearer/caretaker. Now it's money and beauty. No difference in concept, just the details.

I agree; it's rooted in human nature. But for the topic, everyone is blessed with their certain strengths and weaknesses and accordingly, we react to them along with how others react to those qualities. So the details of how we treat and view each other is relevant to our esteem and happiness, and maybe it would be just as beneficial on society.

The media has given us a perverted view of society through the products they peddle. It's hard to find a lure beyond our base desires that brings universal appeal to the most number of buyers, and they want the sell now, not later. That has led us to live in an age of superficiality and instant gratification.

Advertising is an underrated science. I don't think anyone is immune to every form of it. It's just that now we've taken it in and created a dynamic where each of us advertises ourselves to other people in a similar fashion. America elevated marketing to a science at the point where it's American culture.

When those people begin to find their buyer's remorse, they could cynically throw out their rings or trophy wives for a bigger ring or a larger pair of silicone.

If there really is a cure to this hamster wheel, the first step would be to tell everyone to slow down, think what they really want, how much they value it, and think about it a little further. But of course, there's no money to be earned in doing that. It might not even be money well spent.

[syracusa]

Originally posted by white rice,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (white rice,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-Mia, The world has always worked this way.  At one time, it was the best protector/prividor matched to the best child-bearer/caretaker. Now it's money and beauty.  No difference in concept, just the details.

I agree; it's rooted in human nature. But for the topic, everyone is blessed with their certain strengths and weaknesses and accordingly, we react to them along with how others react to those qualities. So the details of how we treat and view each other is relevant to our esteem and happiness, and maybe it would be just as beneficial on society.

The media has given us a perverted view of society through the products they peddle. It's hard to find a lure beyond our base desires that brings universal appeal to the most number of buyers, and they want the sell now, not later. That has led us to live in an age of superficiality and instant gratification.

Advertising is an underrated science. I don't think anyone is immune to every form of it. It's just that now we've taken it in and created a dynamic where each of us advertises ourselves to other people in a similar fashion. America elevated marketing to a science at the point where it's American culture.

When those people begin to find their buyer's remorse, they could cynically throw out their rings or trophy wives for a bigger ring or a larger pair of silicone.

If there really is a cure to this hamster wheel, the first step would be to tell everyone to slow down, think what they really want, how much they value it, and think about it a little further. But of course, there's no money to be earned in doing that. It might not even be money well spent.[/b][/quote]

Right...and where does that leave us?

[Mia]

We can't change society. Everyone make good choices for yourself and don't worry about everyone else!

[white rice]

Originally posted by syracusa Right...and where does that leave us?

Like Mia said, you can only make informed decisions for yourself. But if you keep that in mind, then you should have a less distorted view on what makes you happy and what would make your children happy.

A lot of people would find your marriage enviable. What you lack in financial wealth, you're definitely wealthy in other aspects. Raising a child takes up a lot of resources, but thinking about all the risks and possibilities won't necessarily change any outcome or help you deal with the unexpected. It should be mostly in you and your husband's heart to decide to take that plunge. Let the planning come later. That is probably the only thing both of you can control.

[Suburbanite]

“Plus he's awsome in bed. Does that matter?”

That is important, sure. In fact, as more pressure is being put on men’s attractiveness as well (sexual performance included) I would have to assume he has something along those lines. Would you be with your husband if he was ugly and poor?
OH, and please please don’t insult the Donald!!!

“Let me tell you about most rich men...they are not good in bed, as syracusea pointed out, why should they be?”

Well, I wont be one of THOSE wealthy men then. =D


In fact, I am starting to personally understand the value of appearance more and more. I speak well and I am smart, but without the appearance I’m just a brain, so I’ve be buying new clothing, etc, trying to shape up my overall appeal for the real world. I don’t mind doing work on myself to please others because it pleases me, and I think most people feel the same way. I have realized my personal taste in women has gotten me in too much trouble, so I’m working on myself so I can make it with the next “level” of women (smart ones).

[syracusa]

Originally posted by Suburbanite,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Suburbanite,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Would you be with your husband if he was ugly and poor?).[/b]

ON A LIGHTER NOTE:

Hmmmm....I don't know about "ugly". My husband just happens to be attractive. However, I have seen physically ugly men (literally ugly) that are so darn sexy because of attitude/confidence/charm/poise that I didn't even know what to make of it. And they were UGLY, believe me!!

Poor? This is a very relative term.
There were extremely low odds for me to fall in love with an actual poor man (if we are to use the dry government definition of the poverty line); simply because you are not set to bump into poor men when you made it all the way to grad school - BY DESIGN!!

If you are in grad school - chnaces are you come from a lot that automatically separates you from the pooor. It's the system at work. I know you always love to emphasize the individual, personal choices and rags-to-riches fairy-tales but I eat statistics every day (it is my job); I am a major believer in the SYSTEM. It is amazing what the system does to us and how it shapes and moulds each and every move/choice we make. There is way more "puppet" in all of us than it is "agent of change"; though we desperately want to believe otherwise.

On the other hand, I am sure that many people out there would consider my husband...not poor...but not "succesful" either (using the word "succesful" in an American culture context). At 60,000/year gross income...he would probably be ultra-cool in the eyes of the minimum-wage guy and a mega-loser in the eyes of X,Y,Z CEO.

Originally posted by Suburbanite,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Suburbanite,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> OH, and please please don’t insult the Donald!!!).[/b]

OK, I won't anymore.

But I still think he's funny...and weird...and cheesy, but I guess there's nothing wrong with some "cheese" here and there.
My favorite millionaire/billionaire is George Soros.
I take it Donald is yours. Peace :)

<!--QuoteBegin-Suburbanite,@

“Let me tell you about most rich men...they are not good in bed, as syracusea pointed out, why should they be?”
Well, I wont be one of THOSE wealthy men then.
[/quote]

Good. :)

<!--QuoteBegin-Suburbanite,

In fact, I am starting to personally understand the value of appearance more and more.  I speak well and I am smart, but without the appearance I’m just a brain, so I’ve be buying new clothing, etc, trying to shape up my overall appeal for the real world.  I don’t mind doing work on myself to please others because it pleases me, and I think most people feel the same way.  I have realized my personal taste in women has gotten me in too much trouble, so I’m working on myself so I can make it with the next “level” of women (smart ones).[/quote]

You sound young. :) I am on older chick, most probably older than you are ...so friendly advice: it is OK for guys to look nice and pleasent but once they get too obssessed with how they look and act like they try too hard ..it is downright non-cool. Women obssessed with appearance are not cool either.

Learn to appreciate some physical flaws, look instead for style, poise, charm and character (in inverse order). The most adored, desired, intriguing, "Earth-shattering" women on this Planet have not been "physically perfect".

[GreatWyrm of Babylon]

You better watch out most socialist types consider anything above 15k as rich.

[Mia]

No offense, Syracusa, but people raise children with dignity with a whole lot less than a combined income of $60K, and even if you worked only part time, you'd still be at at least $70K combined, so I don't understand the problem. If you don't have two cars right now, I don't know where your money goes.

[GreatWyrm of Babylon]

I rest my case.

[Mia]

Hardly - that's my income level. I happen to know it's enough to live with dignity, that's all I said.

You disagree?

[GreatWyrm of Babylon]

Why would I disagree. I have implied the reverse.

[bugsbunny04]

My ex-girlfriend did not care how much money I made or that I come from a broke as f*ck situation. As for looks, I'm above average, but I aint Ben Afflack (spoken duck style). She loved me because I was the only guy in her life that did not abuse her in some way and she is the type that wants her own career anyway, and does not mind supporting hrself as long as she is not supporting me. She is my ex-girlfriend because, her physically and emotionally abusive dad, did care how much money I make and will make when I become a teacher. He for all practical purposes has betrothed her to some private school attending, punk ass, privaleged puke. This kind of makes me predisposed to think of people who think this way tend to be trashy losers who cant support themselves. She will probably flee at 18 and never come back to this f*cking place, or at least I hope so.

A guy who sells his daughter to the highest bidder, think about it. You're probably thinking "I live in the US and not Saudi Arabia, thank God." You live in the US huh? That's nice, so do I. Some times our capatalistic society breeds gold digging on a level that is often overlooked.

[Leopard]

Mr. Bunny,
Really now, does her father really have the power to make all the decisions for her? Are you powerless here? Could you not move to where she is, or she choose to run away and be with you, the love of her life? Are you saying that ALL choices have been stripped away from the both of you?
Fact is, if she CHOOSES to go along with her fathers plan - then she favors HIS plan over whatever you present. She does have a choice, and if she chooses to go along with daddy then its pretty obvious that whatever "private school attending, punk ass, privaleged puke" and the other variables in the situation are more important to her than her relationship with you. sorry bud.

truth... man is it painful

michael

[GreatWyrm of Babylon]

bugs
Hope you raise your standards, if you claim that the girl only cared for you because you were not abusive, you got a mighty low opinion of yourself.

[bugsbunny04]

Originally posted by Leopard, Mr. Bunny, Really now, does her father really have the power to make all the decisions for her? Are you powerless here? Could you not move to where she is, or she choose to run away and be with you, the love of her life? Are you saying that ALL choices have been stripped away from the both of you? Fact is, if she CHOOSES to go along with her fathers plan - then she favors HIS plan over whatever you present. She does have a choice, and if she chooses to go along with daddy then its pretty obvious that whatever "private school attending, punk ass, privaleged puke" and the other variables in the situation are more important to her than her relationship with you. sorry bud. truth... man is it painful michael

You don't know her dad, he is a real psycho, and she is terrified of him. Fear is a very powerful tool. And yes he does, she is a minor. She runs away with me, I go to jail. She does not choose to do anything, the fists do it for her.

Truth is painful. In ancient cultures, it would be a him vs. me situation and I would simply kill him. This is modern society, however, and it is him vs. her. A 39 year old male, 5'11", 180 lbs. or so, vs. a 15 year old female 5'3" 115 lbs. or so. She has a choice? Right.

[Mia]

Originally posted by GreatWyrm of Babylon, Why would I disagree. I have implied the reverse.

I'm missing something. Help me out?

[Mia]

Bugs, how old are you?