what is up with gays?

[italiangm]

Originally posted by Suburbanite Some Statistics showing the relationships between Homosexuality and Violence: A 1988 study published in the Journal of the National Medical Association

Alrighty then. Now that I've had a chance to review the study, let me post some of the details...

Study location: Division of Adolescent Medicine, New Jersey Medical School's Department of Pediatrics

Study timeframe: 1976 - 1984

Context of data captured: Initial - Every child receiving general healthcare services at the facility had a medical and psychosocial history conducted by physician during physical examination; Follow-up - If history of sexual victimization by male and/or female perpetrator is reported, 31-question semistructured interview performed to provide demographic details of the molester, acts performed, self-perceived short and long term impact of victim.

Population breakdown: Total # of male children receiving healthcare services during study timeframe - 500/yr x 9 years = 4500

Victim breakdown: Total # of male children meeting victim requirement during study timeframe - 40; Age of victim group during data collection - 15 to 21 (range), 17.7 (mean); Age of victim group at time of assault - 5 to 12 (range), 7.6 (mean); Race/ethnicity of victim group - 32 black, 4 hispanic, 4 white.

Control group breakdown: Unmolested group size - 40.

Molester breakdown: Well-known and trusted adolescent/adult - 25, Total stranger - 9, Casual aquaintance - 6; Age (both male and female) 26 (mean), female - 16 to 36 (range), male - 15 to 45 (range); Female molester was far more likely to be neighbor, babysitter, other trusted person; Male molester nearly equally divided among relatives, acquaintances, strangers.

Discussion to follow.

[italiangm]

Now for Suburbanite's assertions...

Originally posted by Suburbanite+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Suburbanite)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>58% of boys who had been sexually abused described themselves as homosexual or bisexual.[/b]

No argument there. According to the study, out of 40 boys, 19 self-identify as homosexual, 4 as bisexual.

Originally posted by Suburbanite@ Ninety percent of boys who had not been molested described themselves as heterosexuals.

No argument there, either. According to the study, out of the control group of 40 boys, 36 self-identify as heterosexual, 3 as homosexual, 1 as bisexual.

<!--QuoteBegin-Suburbanite
Clear, same-sex child molestation helps create homosexuals who then molest others.[/quote]Not according to the study you've cited. Let's see what the investigators had to say:

"It should be emphasized that the vast majority of homosexuals do not report childhood sexual experiences and also that the vast majority of male pedophiles do not regard themselves as homosexual."

"...the findings are similar to those of Fritz, Stoller and Wagner, who found that 4.8% of undergraduate psychology male students who reported childhood sexual victimization, 60 percent were by women."

"...it is highly questionable to try to estimate the incidence and prevalence rate of sexual molestation, by either sex, in an adolescent medicine clinic population of approximately 500 patients per year."

And, from the final paragraph of the study you cite, "In considering the inital study population, it would also be desirable to learn more about those boys who were highly traumatized by their experience and those who were not particularly affected, and the factors that made for the difference."

Sorry Suburbanite. Of the cites you provided, the only one that had any chance of supporting your assertion failed to do so. If you'd like to discuss any or all of the study in detail, I have the fulltext version and would be more than happy to go over it with you.

[Mia]

Thanks for getting that, Itali. I was very curious.

[MotherJones]

Since first posting to this thread I saw or read something recently that suggested that one reason for homosexuality was the hormonal imbalance of the pregnant mother.....caused by stress and/or some other causes.

Kind of makes sense to me.

[castille]

Wait...Bob Dobbs, your point is that because you find gay porn gross, you are now anti-gay?

Does this mean if you find black porn disgusting, you will hate all black folks?

[berdawn]

Quote by: Bob_Dobbs i once defended gays quite heartily, and i still agree with giving them freedom and accepting them. but i was unfortunate enough to be accidentally shown a few seconds of homosexual porn by my bisexual friend in mixed company. it was disgusting and it haunted my mind for days. i want to be protected from seeing such things as i find them threatening and vomitous. i know it does happen and i am not going to stop it but it's so wrong in so many ways. i will never look at gays the same way again. lesbians are still fairly untainted tho. domestic partnerships with equal treatment under the law will adequately suffice in this situation. gay marraige is not necessary. beyond that topic, why has america had such a hard-on for gays since like 1970? it's just not funny. drop the subject from media and public attention, i have no interest in emphasizing their existence any more than already has been.

I don't know if this has been brought up yet, but as a woman I find your statement "lesbians remain untainted" to be an interesting one. Why is it that men are not disgusted by two women together? I understand that it may be more uncomfortable for men to see two men together, since you have the same parts and can more easily relate to that. I'm curious, please tell me.

I also find it quite interesting that you're willingly associating all homosexual relationships with a gay porn. How accurate is porn in showing the physical aspect of a relationship? Very. How accurate is porn in displaying the underlying sentiments and the emotional connections that make up a legitimate relationship? Not at all.

I don't understand why you seem to think homosexuals don't deserve to get married? I'm assuming (perhaps incorrectly) that you're referring mostly to homosexual men, and that this disgust doesn't readily apply to two women wanting marriage or having sex. How fair is it to base the concept of marriage on a religious ideology? The only arguments I have heard against gay marriage are rooted in fundamentalism. In reality, you feeling that homosexual sex is threatening and "vomitous" (which isn't a word, for future reference) isn't enough to warrant banning their choice of actions. Didn't the KKK find blacks to be just as offensive? And Hitler's feelings toward the Jews? I know these are extreme examples, but they are examples nonetheless.

I'd love to hear more about your reasoning.

[berdawn]

I thought of a few other things while I was reading through all of these posts.

Can we consider the way homosexuals are treated in today's society? As of right now, they are probably treated the best they've ever been and yet they are still subject to persecution and not considered equally human in the eyes of some heterosexuals. If homosexuality was a choice, who would chose that? Homosexuals are people before they are homosexuals. No human being would choose to be treated as less human than anyone else. That's like saying black slaves chose to be black because they wanted to be whipped and forced into submission, or that those of Jewish descent chose to be Jewish because they wanted to see their loved ones shoved into a gas chamber and supported the extermination of their kind. Gee, don't we all secretly wish that our characteristics fit the criteria for genocide and unequal treatment? It's a ridiculous notion and it goes against all logic.

Perhaps acknowledging that you are homosexual is where a choice exists, but not in the state of actually being homosexual.

[LogicaLunatic]

Quote by: Bob_Dobbs hard-on for gays

This just struck me as incredibly funny.

[Gorgo]

Quote by: berdawn If homosexuality was a choice, who would chose that?

What if they did. So what?

[DoloresIbarruri]

Quote by: Bob_Dobbs i once defended gays quite heartily, and i still agree with giving them freedom and accepting them. but i was unfortunate enough to be accidentally shown a few seconds of homosexual porn by my bisexual friend in mixed company. it was disgusting and it haunted my mind for days. i want to be protected from seeing such things as i find them threatening and vomitous. i know it does happen and i am not going to stop it but it's so wrong in so many ways. i will never look at gays the same way again. lesbians are still fairly untainted tho. domestic partnerships with equal treatment under the law will adequately suffice in this situation. gay marraige is not necessary. beyond that topic, why has america had such a hard-on for gays since like 1970? it's just not funny. drop the subject from media and public attention, i have no interest in emphasizing their existence any more than already has been.

I find the comment either hypocritical or just plain demented. You object to gays if they're male, but not if they're female. Vomitous might just be the male that buys, loves and fantasizes about females getting it on. Am I mistaken, or is it that you believe that males who are gay are sick, but that females are secretly gay or something? Typical uneducated, redneck sort of thinking.

[Mia]

Quote by: Mia Thanks for getting that, Itali. I was very curious.

What happened to the rest of this thread? It's trucated at the point of this post, then starts again months later.