what is up with gays?

[italiangm]

Originally posted by Suburbanite+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Suburbanite)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Amongst twins of course homosexuality would be prevalent in both because more than likely they grew up in the same house with the same sexual or physical abuses. [/b]

How about twins that were raised in separate households from birth? There's a popular notion that twins won't develop independent personalities if they are raised together, so parents separated them.

Originally posted by Suburbanite+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Suburbanite)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>If homosexuality were genetic, a female lesbian and a male homosexual could make a child with at least 50% chance of being a homosexual.[/b]

Gay men have been donating semen to lesbians for over 20 years. The incidence of homosexuality amongst the children born from such a situation is no higher than the remaining population. Besides that, short, brown-haired, brown-eyed heterosexuals give birth to offspring that grow up to be tall, blonde-haired, and blue-eyed with amazing frequency.<!--QuoteBegin-Suburbanite@
As for citing proof, I'm not one to really get into all that. I find it bothersome on my part to do your research for you.[/quote]That sounds mighty un-moderator-like considering the first guideline of Volconvo Etiquette. I'm asking for a pointer, not a dissertation.<!--QuoteBegin-Suburbanite
You have to be careful with most “studies” on controversial issues because they seek to prove their hypothesis not disprove it.[/quote]Yeah. Well, how 'bout I just provide the citations for review and let people decide for themselves, shall we?

Behav Genet 2000 Jul;30(4):345-56
Measurement models for sexual orientation in a community twin sample.
Kirk KM, Bailey JM, Dunne MP, Martin NG.
Queensland Institute of Medical Research and Joint Genetics Program, The University of Queensland, Brisbane, Australia. kathE@qimr.edu.au

Multivariate structural equation modeling techniques have been applied to examine the causes of individual differences in responses to several items concerning sexual orientation. To minimize potential ascertainment and response biases, the study sample involved a large (N = 4901) community-based cohort of Australian twins aged 18-52 who answered an anonymous questionnaire on sexual behavior and attitudes. The statistical power of the analysis was increased by the availability of multiple measures of sexual orientation (behaviors, attitudes and feelings), providing stronger evidence for the existence of additive genetic influences on this phenotype than in a previous analysis (Bailey et al., 2000). Estimates of the heritability of homosexuality in this sample ranged between 50 and 60% in females but were significantly lower (heritability of approximately 30%) in males.
PMID: 11206089 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
--

Am J Psychiatry 2000 Nov;157(11):1843-6
Sexual orientation in a U.S. national sample of twin and nontwin sibling pairs.
Kendler KS, Thornton LM, Gilman SE, Kessler RC.
Department of Psychiatry, Medical College of Virginia, Virginia Commonwealth University, Richmond 23298-0126, USA.

OBJECTIVE: Although previous studies have suggested that sexual orientation is influenced by familial factors, which may be partly genetic, these studies have relied on unrepresentative and potentially biased samples. The authors attempted to estimate the role of genetic and environmental factors in the determination of sexual orientation in a more representative sample. METHOD: Sexual orientation was assessed by a single item on a self-report questionnaire in a U.S. national sample of twin and nontwin sibling pairs. Sexual orientation was classified as heterosexual or nonheterosexual (bisexual or homosexual). The authors compared the similarity of sexual orientation in the monozygotic twins to the similarity in the same-sex dizygotic twins, all dizygotic twins, the same-sex dizygotic twins and sibling pairs, and all dizygotic twins and sibling pairs. Biometrical twin analyses were performed. RESULTS: All analyses demonstrated familial resemblance for sexual orientation. Resemblance was greater in the monozygotic twins than in the dizygotic twins or in the dizygotic twins plus nontwin siblings. Biometrical twin modeling suggested that sexual orientation was substantially influenced by genetic factors, but family environment may also play a role. No evidence was found for a violation of the equal-environment assumption regarding monozygotic and dizygotic twin pairs. CONCLUSIONS: Familial factors, which are at least partly genetic, influence sexual orientation. The results of these analyses should be interpreted in the context of low statistical power and the use of a single item to assess the complex phenotype of sexual orientation.
PMID: 11058483 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
--

Orv Hetil 1998 Feb 1;139(5):247-9
[Genetic evaluation of male homosexuality].
[Article in Hungarian]
Gasztonyi Z.
OKI, Humangenetikai es Teratologai Osztaly, WHO Orokletes Artalmak Tarsadalmi Megelozese Egyuttmukodesi Kozpont, Budapest.

The family trees of 16 homosexual males are evaluated in the material of their Genetic Counselling Clinic. The familial cluster of three cases corresponded to the X-linked recessive inheritance. The results of family, twin and adoption studies are reviewed and the recent findings of molecular genetic and brain researches are summarised. Male homosexuality comprises of different subgroups, but one major entity is caused by X-linked recessive gene(s). This genetic background represent a predisposition which is triggered or suppressed by external factors.
PMID: 9489379 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
--

J Homosex 1995;28(1-2):91-113
A critique of the possibility of genetic inheritance of homosexual orientation.
Haynes JD.
State University of New York, College at Buffalo 14222, USA.

Many workers in human sexuality have tried to discover causes of sexual orientation. No one theory has proved to be satisfactory. Studies of monozygotic and dizygotic twins, some of whom have been reared separately and some together, suggest that there may be an inherited component of homosexuality. Other studies, particularly those concerned with the evolution of human sexuality, question such a possibility. A further question arises because a large part of the human population is neither exclusively homosexual nor exclusively heterosexual. This paper will examine the evidence for genetic inheritance presented by twin and family studies. It will explore ways in which a gene favoring a homosexual orientation but not reproduction could continue to exist in a population. The importance of defining terms that refer to sexual orientation will be discussed in the context of determining exactly what may be inherited. Finally, the effects of accepting genetic inheritance as the cause of sexual orientation will be discussed.
PMID: 7560926 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
--

Arch Sex Behav 1993 Jun;22(3):187-206
Homosexual orientation in twins: a report on 61 pairs and three triplet sets.
Whitam FL, Diamond M, Martin J.
Department of Sociology, Arizona State University, Tempe 85287-2101.

Twin pairs in which at least one twin is homosexual were solicited through announcements in the gay press and personal referrals from 1980 to the present. An 18-page questionnaire on the "sexuality of twins" was filled out by one or both twins. Thirty-eight pairs of monozygotic twins (34 male pairs and 4 female pairs) were found to have a concordance rate of 65.8% for homosexual orientation. Twenty-three pairs of dizygotic twins were found to have a concordance rate of 30.4% for homosexual orientation. In addition, three sets of triplets were obtained. Two sets contained a pair of monozygotic twins concordant for sexual orientation with the third triplet dizygotic and discordant for homosexual orientation. A third triplet set was monozygotic with all three concordant for homosexual orientation. These findings are interpreted as supporting the argument for a biological basis in sexual orientation.
PMID: 8494487 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
--

Arch Gen Psychiatry 1993 Mar;50(3):217-23
Heritable factors influence sexual orientation in women.
Bailey JM, Pillard RC, Neale MC, Agyei Y.
Department of Psychology, Northwestern University, Evanston, Ill 60208.

Homosexual female probands with monozygotic cotwins, dizygotic cotwins, or adoptive sisters were recruited using homophile publications. Sexual orientation of relatives was assessed either by asking relatives directly, or, when this was impossible, by asking the probands. Of the relatives whose sexual orientation could be confidently rated, 34 (48%) of 71 monozygotic cotwins, six (16%) of 37 dizygotic cotwins, and two (6%) of 35 adoptive sisters were homosexual. Probands also reported 10 (14%) nontwin biologic sisters to be homosexual, although those sisters were not contacted to confirm their orientations. Heritabilities were significant using a wide range of assumptions about both the base rate of homosexuality in the population and ascertainment bias. The likelihood that a monozygotic cotwin would also be homosexual was unrelated to measured characteristics of the proband such as self-reported history of childhood gender nonconformity. Concordant monozygotic twins reported similar levels of childhood gender nonconformity.
PMID: 8439243 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
--

Br J Psychiatry 1992 Mar;160:407-9
Homosexuals who are twins. A study of 46 probands.
King M, McDonald E.
Royal Free Hospital School of Medicine, London.

Forty-six homosexual men and women who were twins took part in a study of their sexuality and that of their co-twin. Discordance for sexual orientation in the monozygotic pairs confirmed that genetic factors are insufficient explanation of the development of sexual orientation. There was a high level of shared knowledge of sexual orientation between members of twin pairs, and a relatively high likelihood of sexual relations occurring with same sex co-twins at some time, particularly in monozygotic pairs. The implications of these results for the study of the origins of sexual orientation and for twin research are discussed.
PMID: 1562871 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
--

Arch Gen Psychiatry 1991 Dec;48(12):1089-96
Comment in Arch Gen Psychiatry. 1993 Mar;50(3):240-1
A genetic study of male sexual orientation.
Bailey JM, Pillard RC.
Department of Psychology, Northwestern University, Evanston, Ill 60208.

Homosexual male probands with monozygotic cotwins, dizygotic cotwins, or adoptive brothers were recruited using homophile publications. Sexual orientation of relatives was assessed either by asking relatives directly, or when this was impossible, asking the probands. Of the relatives whose sexual orientation could be rated, 52% (29/56) of monozygotic cotwins, 22% (12/54) of dizygotic cotwins, and 11% (6/57) of adoptive brothers were homosexual. Heritabilities were substantial under a wide range of assumptions about the population base rate of homosexuality and ascertainment bias. However, the rate of homosexuality among nontwin biological siblings, as reported by probands, 9.2% (13/142), was significantly lower than would be predicted by a simple genetic hypothesis and other published reports. A proband's self-reported history of childhood gender non-conformity did not predict homosexuality in relatives in any of the three subsamples. Thus, childhood gender nonconformity does not appear to be an indicator of genetic loading for homosexuality. Cotwins from concordant monozygotic pairs were very similar for childhood gender nonconformity.
PMID: 1845227 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
--

Behav Genet 1991 Jan;21(1):75-96
Sexual orientation, sexual identity, and sex-dimorphic behaviors in male twins.
Buhrich N, Bailey JM, Martin NG.
Department of Psychiatry, St. Vincent's Hospital, Sydney, Australia.

Sexual orientation, sexual identity, and sex-dimorphic behaviors were assessed concurrently and retrospectively, for childhood, in 95 pairs of male monozygotic (MZ) twins and 63 pairs of dizygotic (DZ) twins. There was a significantly higher rate of adult homosexuality among the MZ than among DZ twins. We employed a model-fitting approach using LISREL to test for genetic and environmental influences on variation for each trait singly and on the covariation among all six traits (three for childhood and three for adulthood). Univariate analyses confirmed the presence of familial factors for five of the six variables but were generally unable to distinguish shared environmental from genetic influences. Hierarchical tests of multivariate models supported the existence of an additive genetic factor contributing to the covariance among the variables. More restrictive multivariate models yielded a significant genetic influence on sexual orientation. Because of the different rates of orientation by zygosity and because of the restrictive nature of some of the multivariate models, our results are best considered tentative but do suggest that further biometrically oriented studies of sexual orientation and its correlates would be worthwhile.
PMID: 2018464 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
--

[Capt Lee]

Again, REALITY is whats between your legs. The rest is just your fantasy.

Just another notch for the destructors of our society. I'd hate to be fool enough to become politically and socially correct about the issue. Try thinking on your own for a change. The equation is functionally imperfect.

Psychology is not a science, I dumped it as a major when I discovered that. It can never be a science because it leaves out a major factor, our spiritual being. It tries to measure the Ego. the very creator of fantasy and deception. It has not progressed to the point it can differentiate between Ego and Egolessness. The difference between whats fantasy and reality.

Capt Lee

[Suburbanite]

“If what is heard and read about many gays, even the ones who are in a committed relationship, at least one of a couple often finds it advantageous to seek out other partners, sometimes many other partners to release their sexual needs, so I suppose it's understandable that a gay who believes he is enjoying sex, would not want to be told he can be cured because there really isn't any genetic condition that made him gay. He wants to continue doing what he's doing because he likes his choices.”

“Curing” a homosexual is not only an insulting term but nearly an impossibility. It is at the core of their psyche. It would be as hard as convincing a Black person he isn’t black. Secondly, it isn’t a disease; it is a human reaction to horrific events. The problem, and this is important, is not that THEY ARE HOMOSEXUALS but what caused them to be homosexuals. There existence as people in no way threatens the world or corrupts society because of their sexual preference. The problem is the hard-to-except idea that Homosexuality doesn’t come from a land of flowers and chocolate but one of molestation, rape, incest, child abuse, etc. As for the promiscuity of homosexuals it seems simple to me. As a man, and I think most men have thought this, “If I was a woman, I’d be fucking all the time.” Well, put two men together who are looking for other men and you have that scenario played out.

“How about twins that were raised in separate households from birth? There's a popular notion that twins won't develop independent personalities if they are raised together, so parents separated them.”

Someone would have to point me in the direction of a study on separated homosexual twins then.

” Gay men have been donating semen to lesbians for over 20 years. The incidence of homosexuality amongst the children born from such a situation is no higher than the remaining population. Besides that, short, brown-haired, brown-eyed heterosexuals give birth to offspring that grow up to be tall, blonde-haired, and blue-eyed with amazing frequency.”

Doesn’t that prove my point? If two homosexuals produce a child and it were genetic, those children would have a much larger “chance” of being homosexual. So it clearly isn’t genetic from this alone. I loved the study about the Identical twins though. It is really simple. If homosexuality is mental then two people with nearly identical genetic minds born and raised in nearly the same situation will very likely react to it the same way. Homosexuality isn’t inevitable in situations of rape or molestation of a child, but it is a product of it.

I will reply to more when I get back home today, Mia, just wait, I’ll even reply to you

[italiangm]

Continuing...

Originally posted by Suburbanite+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Suburbanite)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Removing physical and sexual violence is the only way to prevent it, which comes with a much more advanced culture than ours. And yes, society has been twisted and cruel for all its history.[/b]

So, from a practical perspective, homosexuality will continue to exist, at least for the foreseeable future.

Originally posted by Suburbanite+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Suburbanite)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>With animals in most instances it comes from a similar place. Animals aren't conscious to the levels we are. So you have to take in mind that they act on their homosexuality only in the most primeval ways. So it isn't necessarily a product of sexual abuse, but of any social subjugation.[/b]

Sounds amazingly similar to the way men have treated women over the years. Chattel anyone?

Originally posted by Suburbanite The types of animal homosexuals are divided by two, the first being the assertive ones who merely sodomize male animals (monkeys for instance) as a form of control and power, like in prison. The other kind is the subjugated homosexual animal, and these are only existent in mammals. These are animals who are simply confused because of their social uselessness. All homosexual mammals exist in some form of a society, and that is the reason for their actions.

Much of what you write about the dominant nature of animals has been confirmed, except for social uselessness. The jury is still out on this issue. However, there's been some promising research that has stimulated my own theory about why homosexuality exists despite the claim that it is a biological dead-end.<!--QuoteBegin-Suburbanite@
Oh, right, and bisexuals. Well, the gender line isn’t too distinct, not very dichotomous so to speak. Bisexuals don’t exist, because bisexuality is in reality a scale.[/quote]Actually, current theory still holds that sexuality, in general, is measured across several scales.<!--QuoteBegin-Suburbanite
There are women who have sex or make out with other women because it turns on men, you see that stuff at parties a lot, but it is all to arouse men, not each other. Then there are “true” bisexuals, who are just homosexuals who can still appreciate heterosexual sex. If human being are naturally, and by nature I mean its most societal-less form, heterosexual then people who are products of sexual or physical abuse can still retain their initial attraction to the same sex. Sexuality is really just mental, so a lot of things can influence it. I am sure peer pressure could cause a heterosexual to engage in homosexual sex much as homosexuals have often engaged in heterosexual sex due to enormous social pressure.[/quote]While there may be some truth to this portion of your theory, I suspect the actual prevalence of the behavior you describe is very small, perhaps less than 2% of all persons engaging in same-sex sexual activity.

Now, let me explain my theory. Homosexuality has persisted for thousands of years because there's a payoff. It is an evolutionary adaptation that has improved species survival. Let's look at characteristic differences between males and females:

Males: Aggressive. Primary breadwinner. Resists domestication. Absent father. Half-brain thinker. High incidence of infidelity and psychopathology compared to female.

Females: Nurturer. Childbearer. Caretaker. Nest-builder. Enforces domestication. Controls access to sexual gratification. Whole-brain thinker. High incidence of depression and anxiety due to sex hormones and oppressive environment.

Outcome: Stress from disharmony, socioeconomic and environmental factors adversely affect male sperm motility and female ovulation. Hormones present during fetal development makedly different as the number of offspring from the same female increases.

Evolutionary soution: Create a less aggressive, more compliant, more creative male exhibiting positive female traits without the biological imperative to reproduce, coded specifically to aid and support heterosexual reporoduction.

Result: Caretaker. Purser. Servant. Hairdresser. Teacher. Doctor. Nurse. Scientist. Humanist. Socially adept climber. Interior Decorator. Leader. Renaissance Man. Homosexual male.

[Capt Lee]

Well ItallianGayMale, your theary is full of holes. I doubt you would accept anything anyone said to allow you to see reality. Try looking between your legs. Maybe you'll get some ideas about who you really are.

[italiangm]

Originally posted by Capt Lee, Well ItallianGayMale, your theary is full of holes. I doubt you would accept anything anyone said to allow you to see reality. Try looking between your legs. Maybe you'll get some ideas about who you really are.

Well, if you think you can explain your position more eloquently than the simplistic "look between your legs" mantra, I'm all ears. Feel free to demonstrate whatever holes you feel exist in the theory. :)

[Mia]

hetrosexuality and homosexuality does in fact run on a scale.

Everyone falls somewhere in the range, you may be 99% hetero, but no one is 100%.

Homophobes will flip out over that but that's what you will learn if you study human sexuality.

[Catch 22]

Originally posted by Mia, hetrosexuality and homosexuality does in fact run on a scale. Everyone falls somewhere in the range, you may be 99% hetero, but no one is 100%. Homophobes will flip out over that but that's what you will learn if you study human sexuality.

Yeah the sliding scale is the most effective way to evaluate homosexuality everyone falls on it differently. I wonder what would happen if we evaluated homophobes and found out that they all fall along the 60 percent straight area. That sure would be funny but not all too surprising.


Also I' not sure if any mentioned this but my psyche textbook repeatedly says that there's a definite link between embryological hormone differences and homosexuality but no genetic or environmental link.

[italiangm]

Originally posted by Suburbanite+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Suburbanite)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>The problem, and this is important, is not that THEY ARE HOMOSEXUALS but what caused them to be homosexuals. There existence as people in no way threatens the world or corrupts society because of their sexual preference. The problem is the hard-to-except idea that Homosexuality doesn’t come from a land of flowers and chocolate but one of molestation, rape, incest, child abuse, etc.[/b]

You can state this until the cows come home, but until you are willing to provide a pointer to some evidence, it remains your opinion.

Originally posted by Suburbanite+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Suburbanite)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Someone would have to point me in the direction of a study on separated homosexual twins then.[/b]

This is funny. Quid pro quo.<!--QuoteBegin-Suburbanite@
Doesn’t that prove my point? If two homosexuals produce a child and it were genetic, those children would have a much larger “chance” of being homosexual. So it clearly isn’t genetic from this alone.[/quote]No one in this thread said the cause for homosexuality was entirely genetic.<!--QuoteBegin-Suburbanite
I loved the study about the Identical twins though. It is really simple. If homosexuality is mental then two people with nearly identical genetic minds born and raised in nearly the same situation will very likely react to it the same way.[/quote]The separated twins data easily debunks that premise. :)

[Mia]

Yes, separted twins, Sub. That's what they use for genetic studies.

Believe it or not, they realize the "nurture" part and control for it.

So how do you account for that?

[italiangm]

Originally posted by Catch 22+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Catch 22)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Yeah the sliding scale is the most effective way to evaluate homosexuality everyone falls on it differently.  I wonder what would happen if we evaluated homophobes and found out that they all fall along the 60 percent straight area.  That sure would be funny but not all too surprising.[/b]

Your wish is my command:

Is homophobia associated with homosexual arousal?
by Adams, Henry E.; Wright, Lester W.; Lohr, Bethany A.
from Journal of Abnormal Psychology. 1996 Aug Vol 105(3) 440-445

The authors investigated the role of homosexual arousal in exclusively heterosexual men who admitted negative affect toward homosexual individuals. Participants consisted of a group of homophobic men (n = 35) and a group of nonhomophobic men (n = 29); they were assigned to groups on the basis of their scores on the Index of Homophobia (W. W. Hudson & W. A. Ricketts, 1980). The men were exposed to sexually explicit erotic stimuli consisting of heterosexual, male homosexual, and lesbian videotapes, and changes in penile circumference were monitored. They also completed an Aggression Questionnaire (A. H. Buss & M. Perry, 1992). Both groups exhibited increases in penile circumference to the heterosexual and female homosexual videos. Only the homophobic men showed an increase in penile erection to male homosexual stimuli. The groups did not differ in aggression. Homophobia is apparently associated with homosexual arousal that the homophobic individual is either unaware of or denies. (PsycINFO Database Record © 2002 APA, all rights reserved)

For as long as the link works, you can find the abstract at the APA's online site. Just click on the link and scroll down to item 14. You can also find the abstract at PubMed/Entrez.<!--QuoteBegin-Catch 22
Also I' not sure if any mentioned this but my psyche textbook repeatedly says that there's a definite link between embryological hormone differences and homosexuality but no genetic or environmental link.[/quote]Perhaps you mean to say there are no proven links found at the time the text was written. It is my understanding that two universities recently attempted to launch projects to investigate, but government funding for their medical research projects was suddenly called into question. Apparently the Bush administration felt they shouldn't fund projects at universities whose reputation is at stake for pursuing projects with the word "homosexuality" in the project's objective. Unless "cure" is in the project objective, too.

[Mia]

What about the brain differences recently found?

[Catch 22]

italiangm- Thanks for the article now we have proof that pat robertson could actually be gay.

As far as can remember a researcher found out that while in the womb there seemed to be differneces in hormone concentrations for hetero and homo children. Damnit I wish I still had the book with me.

[italiangm]

Originally posted by Catch 22+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Catch 22)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Thanks for the article now we have proof that pat robertson could actually be gay. [/b]

Ew! LOL! :)<!--QuoteBegin-Catch 22
As far as can remember a researcher found out that while in the womb there seemed to be differneces in hormone concentrations for hetero and homo children. Damnit I wish I still had the book with me.[/quote]Well, the study might've been published in a journal. If so, why not try a search at PubMed's site at http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...d&itool=toolbar. Plug all of the following keywords (fetal hormone homosexual) into the seach engine with a space between each word and see what pops up! Good luck! :)

[Suburbanite]

Originally posted by Mia, Yes, separted twins, Sub. That's what they use for genetic studies. Believe it or not, they realize the "nurture" part and control for it. So how do you account for that?

Where? I'm sorry but these "studies" didn't disprove anything I said. They assumed genetic factors in homosexuality. the only genetic similarities revolve around how their minds react to particular situations. The leap they make is without question a far one. Now, which of these studies listed proves this? None regarding seperated twins were on there as far as I could see, but perhaps I am wrong?

[Suburbanite]

Some Statistics showing the relationships between Homosexuality and Violence:
I’m really not too into doing research for other people when the information is available, but I guess I can do it for ya’ll

A 1988 study published in the Journal of the National
Medical Association found that 58% of boys who had been sexually abused described themselves as homosexual or bisexual. Ninety percent of boys who had not been molested described themselves as heterosexuals. Clear, same-sex child molestation helps create homosexuals who then molest others.)

A 1994 study of 113 lesbians indicated that 41% of them had been physically abused in a same-sex relationship.

The L.A. Gay and Lesbian Center reported in 1998 that approximately 25% to 33% of all homosexual relationships involve abuse.

Uggg, I am tired, I’ll post more tomorrow. A lot of other statistics are more round-about. Things like Homosexuals being more likely to molest children, and child molester’s high rates of being molested themselves as children. But I’ll get into it more when I get the chance.

[BaconButty]

Originally posted by Bob_Dobbs, i once defended gays quite heartily, and i still agree with giving them freedom and accepting them. but i was unfortunate enough to be accidentally shown a few seconds of homosexual porn by my bisexual friend in mixed company. it was disgusting and it haunted my mind for days. i want to be protected from seeing such things as i find them threatening and vomitous. i know it does happen and i am not going to stop it but it's so wrong in so many ways. i will never look at gays the same way again. lesbians are still fairly untainted tho. domestic partnerships with equal treatment under the law will adequately suffice in this situation. gay marraige is not necessary. beyond that topic, why has america had such a hard-on for gays since like 1970? it's just not funny. drop the subject from media and public attention, i have no interest in emphasizing their existence any more than already has been.

No-one is forcing you to watch gay porn. It was YOUR CHOICE that you decided to watch it. From now on, let people do what they want to do in their own bedrooms (after all, you are supposed to be living in a democracy) and just don't watch gay porn. No-one is ordering you to.

[Catch 22]

Ew! LOL! :)

hey think about the possiblities pat robertson, falwell, Bush, cheney the whole relgious right could be secretly gay!

Well, the study might've been published in a journal. If so, why not try a search at PubMed's site at http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...d&itool=toolbar. Plug all of the following keywords (fetal hormone homosexual) into the seach engine with a space between each word and see what pops up! Good luck! :)

Thanks I sure will, on another note I also recall a study looking at the effects of maternal stress during pregnancy and homosexuality. Apparently two studies found a substantive correlation between stressed mothers(raped ,divorced, attacked, under pressure etc) and homosexual children.

[MotherJones]

IMHO, the problem is not with the gays, the problem is with heterosexuals who look upon gays as less than human; another species, something "different".

Don't you think they look at us as a little "different" too?

Maybe they are disgusted with seeing heterosexual sex acts.

It's all in the eyes of the beholder.

OT: homosexuality is a natural condition, all animals are capable of performing gay acts.......ever see a male dog mount another male dog, for example? Horses that are uninterested in breeding fillies are gelded because they are useless as breeding stock.

[italiangm]

Originally posted by Catch 22 hey think about the possiblities pat robertson, falwell, Bush, cheney the whole relgious right could be secretly gay!

Well, according to Suburbanite's theory, Mary Cheney's, Candace Gingrich's, John Schlafly's and David Knight's homosexuality "...is a product of a twisted and violent society...", caused "... by acts of physical abuse, sexual molestation or rape...".