Racism.. Is it really as much of a problem?

[Marilyn Monroe]

Quote by: Chancellor That depends on which group of each you mean. There are groups of whites and there are groups of blacks that like to keep this ridiculous notion of race alive.

This is true.

Well, I'm inclined to simply say that the only "race" is the human race.

That's it.

Well, we do sometimes CHOOSE to act differently when with different groups of people but there is nothing that is really preventing us from choosing to be ourselves.

Mainly we tend to want to fit in, and not make waves. There are laws with some of it.You really can't act just however you feel. That can get you in trouble. I'm sure you could get fired for relativly minor offenses in the politically correct world we now live in.

[Fonceai]

Quote by: Marilyn Monroe And who dislike Hispanics more? Those that have supposedly been discriminated on from what I see and hear.

That's why I believe acts of discrimination occur in response to something else.

Waiting longer in the emergency room because an illegal immigrant gets to go ahead of you and not pay their bill, for example.

I see what you mean that they are more like immigrants.

I wonder, then, if they are aware that they are taking advantage of a flawed system and that by doing so they are becoming hated?

Blacks were captured and enslaved here; they didn't have a choice.

Hispanics do.

That's what pissed me off about the Illegal Alien Parade Day. They get to protest circumstances here but they are here illegally by choice.

I f**king hate that.

[Marilyn Monroe]

Quote by: Kamehameha34 Our feelings reflect our environment. I can change your environment, which would be reflected in your feelings. If I murdered your family in front of you, I would be imposing feelings of anger and sadness. If I showed you a picture of a puppy, I would be imposing feelings of happiness.

The feelings toward your family would have to mean that you had feelings towards your family. Not all ties are deep.

Not all people like animals, so pictures of puppies may or may not mean anything.

Environment plays a part, but some people do not follow the environmental rules. Kids who have bad home lives don't always turn out "bad". Having a "good" homelife doesn't mean you'll be a good person.

I don't believe in disallowing the professional development of an individual based on race. How does that constitute a "ridiculous notion"?

Is it ok to disallow whites professional development?

[Kamehameha34]

Quote by: Marilyn Monroe The feelings toward your family would have to mean that you had feelings towards your family. Not all ties are deep.

And by effecting someone's family, you are indirectly imposing relevant feelings on them.

Not all people like animals, so pictures of puppies may or may not mean anything.

I was conceptualizing. Anything that would make you happy could be manipulated by my to make you happy at will. I can impose feelings on you, for I am a part of your environment.

Environment plays a part, but some people do not follow the environmental rules. Kids who have bad home lives don't always turn out "bad". Having a "good" homelife doesn't mean you'll be a good person.

I'm not talking about development.

Is it ok to disallow whites professional development?

Nice straw man.

We can allow minorities to develop, professionally, without disallowing the professional development of whites.

[Cephus]

Quote by: Marilyn Monroe Most companies have two sets of rules. Rules for whites, which tend to be stricter, rules for blacks(more lenient). Say it isn't so, but it be so. Ask the people in management.

I can say it isn't so because it isn't, at least in my company. I have both black and white employees and they are treated entirely the same. Heck, one of my best employees happens to be a black man from Nigeria who, if you ask me, has one of the coolest accents I've ever heard. His first name is about 20 letters long and pretty much unpronouncable, but he goes by Chudi and he's one person I can always count on to get the job done.

He doesn't get treated the slightest bit differently from any of my white employees either. He's held to the same standards and he's proven that he's a fantastic worker by *ANY* standards.

Let's try not to generalize. There certainly are some companies that have a double standard, but let's not say so for all of them. It just ain't so.

[Cephus]

Quote by: Fonceai Blacks were captured and enslaved here; they didn't have a choice.

But that was 150 years ago, time to get over it. No black alive today was ever a slave. Neither were their parents. Neither were their grandparents. Time to stop waving the slavery card.

Hispanics do.

Absolutely. Illegal aliens, regardless of where they come from, need to go the hell back home. That goes for Hispanics, Asians, whites, blacks, blues, Martians... you name it, if you're here illegally, go the hell back home.

[ByaKya]

Quote by: Cephus Absolutely. Illegal aliens, regardless of where they come from, need to go the hell back home. That goes for Hispanics, Asians, whites, blacks, blues, Martians... you name it, if you're here illegally, go the hell back home.

Uh no. illegal immigration is the rule rather than the exception.
How did white people show up here? Legally immigrated under the rules established by the native americans? dont be ridiculous. and dont be a hypocrit.
Illegal immigrants will leave when you do. Next time the united states shouldnt annex land owned by another country, and then call the people in that captured land "illegal aliens"
Absolutely ridiculous and REJECTED type of thinking.
Why doesnt every country on earth just invade its nieghbors, capture some land, then eject the millions of illegal immigrants that cross the border to join their family and relatives in the country that now benefits from the land grab

[Epistemologist]

Well, both blacks and whites are racist to each other in the most extreme circumstances. In fact, we all have fundamentally racist tendencies.

Indeed, there are some who are able to truly eliminate this racism and adopt a more altruistic, philanthropic position. They are admirably enlightened, in my opinion.

And there are also others who simply claim to be politically correct and say they're not racist, but they are hypocrites. In fact, in the professional setting or something like that, they won't act racist at all. Perhaps they don't want to get arrested or lose a job. Or perhaps they don't want to be seen as faux pas, since pseudo-sensitivity is the "new fad." If you've seen the movie "Crash," you'll know what I'm talking about. In my opinion, these people are the worst sinners. That is, they commit not only the original sin of racism but also the additional sin of lying to themselves and others about that racism. They are shallow and selfish individuals.

Of course, the other people are the flat-out racists. They have a inherent faith that their race is the best. They are often very rational, but most of the time the ones we see aren't. The latter come onto forums like this and rant about race superiority, use ethnic slurs, and generally think that this is a subject of debate. The former, however, realize that such a cultural matter is just like religious belief in that they cannot truly be decided through futile debates and meaningless arguments. Anyway, as I mentioned earlier, I think that these are more virtuous than lying racists. However, I really dislike those ranting loony-heads.

So, racism is unfortunate but is a near-inevitability. Nonetheless, we ought to sincerely try to enlighten ourselves like the first group I described; if we cannot, then we should at least acknowledge that lying is unjust.

[ByaKya]

Quote by: Fonceai If you want to die over discrimination then also be my guest, because that fight has already been won.

The only thing keeping this out of the "most idiotic statements" thread is that i like you.
it is not dead, in fact there was a study conducted in 2002 which showed that people with black sounding names are called back about half the time as people with white sounding names.

The New York Times

"The results are disturbing. Applicants with white-sounding names were 50 percent more likely to be called for interviews than were those with black-sounding names. Interviews were requested for 10.1 percent of applicants with white-sounding names and only 6.7 percent of those with black-sounding names."

battle against discrimination has been won, right, sure buddy.

[Fonceai]

That's hardly comparable to the legal discrimination of the last century.

Again, still not worth dying over.

[ByaKya]

Quote by: Fonceai That's hardly comparable to the legal discrimination of the last century. Again, still not worth dying over.

Thats like saying the Iraq war isnt so bad and in fact weve "won" because World War 2 had much higher casualties.

[Fonceai]

The analogy is highly inaccurate.

You were referring to an instance of unverifiable but apparent discrimination as being worth dying over.

It was in response to my quote to that effect.

I don't see how not getting a job because of my name is an issue worth dying for.

I would tell any whiner of any race to get off their ass and make themself the better option so that it doesn't have to come down to a matter of a name.

[ByaKya]

Quote by: Fonceai The analogy is highly inaccurate. You were referring to an instance of unverifiable but apparent discrimination as being worth dying over. It was in response to my quote to that effect. I don't see how not getting a job because of my name is an issue worth dying for. I would tell any whiner of any race to get off their ass and make themself the better option so that it doesn't have to come down to a matter of a name.

I pointed out the study to show how discrmination is far from dead.

And you still havent answered the very simple question.
Ill rephrase it for you.

Are you willing confront racism in some kind of way?

In the extreme case to die fighting it. In the least case, post on the forums fighting a rascist world view. The latter youve done, but i just want to see you answer the question directly.

Yes or No

[Sappho]

Quote by: ByaKya This is ridiculous, racist in their casting? Do you hear yourself speaking? You want them to cast white people as themselves in the videos? or cast white people as their freinds as opposed to their actual freinds? how about cast some white people as part of their "posse" this must be a joke. move on

Actually it's not a joke and it is offensive that you respond merely to denigrate a person's view without providing anything meaningful in the way of counter arguement.

Nobody is suggesting that Black artists cast White people to lip sinc the words as was the case with Milli/ Vanilli. I doubt very much that those black extra's and dancers in the back ground of the videos in question are actually their friends. Also it is racist to suggest as you do that black people only have black friends. It implies that they or we think ourselves too superior to form friendships outside of our skin colour. Even the use of 'posse' is inappropriate to be used in context with black US citizens, since the perception off shore, is that black people suffer injustices from police and other such posse's of the past.

You also completely ignore the comparrison I drew between white video's in the main that represent cultural diversity and black video's that don't in the main.

Why should we move on? Because you say so? Why do you say so? Because........................ and that's the issue. You are not debating.

[Marilyn Monroe]

Quote by: Kamehameha34 And by effecting someone's family, you are indirectly imposing relevant feelings on them.

I get your premise, but to me it's really cock and bull.

I was conceptualizing. Anything that would make you happy could be manipulated by my to make you happy at will. I can impose feelings on you, for I am a part of your environment.

OK.

I'm not talking about development.

OK.

Nice straw man.

I think it is relevant to the argument.

We can allow minorities to develop, professionally, without disallowing the professional development of whites.

I think we do both, and this is a good thing, but to say that there aren't differences that have been created and are just facts of life, is being disingenous.

[Marilyn Monroe]

Quote by: Fonceai That's why I believe acts of discrimination occur in response to something else.

This isn't discrimination then, it's just anger.

I wonder, then, if they are aware that they are taking advantage of a flawed system and that by doing so they are becoming hated?

They probably don't care because they are getting stuff for free, so being hated doesn't enter their minds.

Blacks were captured and enslaved here; they didn't have a choice.

They were captured and enslaved in Africa, many times by people of their own race. They were bought by white men this is true, but the capturing was a different story, and is part of the history.

That's what pissed me off about the Illegal Alien Parade Day. They get to protest circumstances here but they are here illegally by choice.

I'm not sure how many are here illegally by choice, many are probably children, and have no choice. We need to do as much as is possible to make them all legal, and send them back if they can't become legal if possible. I would imagine it's all more trouble than it's worth. Lots of red tape. Lots of man hours. Lots of waiting. Bad situation for all of us.

[Marilyn Monroe]

Quote by: Cephus I can say it isn't so because it isn't, at least in my company. I have both black and white employees and they are treated entirely the same. Heck, one of my best employees happens to be a black man from Nigeria who, if you ask me, has one of the coolest accents I've ever heard. His first name is about 20 letters long and pretty much unpronouncable, but he goes by Chudi and he's one person I can always count on to get the job done.

This may be true for you, and for others, but there are huge differences, and the differences do affect everyone.

He doesn't get treated the slightest bit differently from any of my white employees either. He's held to the same standards and he's proven that he's a fantastic worker by *ANY* standards.

This is your situation, and he's a good worker. A good worker won't have to get "special" treatment.

Let's try not to generalize. There certainly are some companies that have a double standard, but let's not say so for all of them. It just ain't so.

But it is happening, and in the government it's rampant, more with black females. The government is the biggest employer, so it's happening a lot.

[Marilyn Monroe]

Quote by: Epistemologist Well, both blacks and whites are racist to each other in the most extreme circumstances. In fact, we all have fundamentally racist tendencies.

This is true, and we all learn it at home. Blacks are taught not to trust whites and teach racism at home, probably more than whites do. This is a fact. I believe as time goes by, we will become color-blind, but these things have to go through many generations to take hold.

Indeed, there are some who are able to truly eliminate this racism and adopt a more altruistic, philanthropic position. They are admirably enlightened, in my opinion.

There are very few of these types, and I think they are phony as well.

And there are also others who simply claim to be politically correct and say they're not racist, but they are hypocrites. In fact, in the professional setting or something like that, they won't act racist at all. Perhaps they don't want to get arrested or lose a job. Or perhaps they don't want to be seen as faux pas, since pseudo-sensitivity is the "new fad." If you've seen the movie "Crash," you'll know what I'm talking about. In my opinion, these people are the worst sinners. That is, they commit not only the original sin of racism but also the additional sin of lying to themselves and others about that racism. They are shallow and selfish individuals.

This is the biggest group, but even when being disingenous it's still better than being an outright racist. The longer people do this phony stuff, eventually it will just become a natural part of their psyche.

Of course, the other people are the flat-out racists. They have a inherent faith that their race is the best. They are often very rational, but most of the time the ones we see aren't.

This is a nutty bunch, and they need to be ignored, and when they do something illegal should be punished severely. The communities that harbor these folks need to ostracize them. I think this is what happens usually.

[Sappho]

Quote by: Marilyn Monroe This is true, and we all learn it at home. Blacks are taught not to trust whites and teach racism at home, probably more than whites do. This is a fact. I believe as time goes by, we will become color-blind, but these things have to go through many generations to take hold.

That blacks teach racism probably more than whites teach racism is a fact eh?

Sounds like illogical opinion to me and nothing like fact at all!

[Sappho]

Indeed, there are some who are able to truly eliminate this racism and adopt a more altruistic, philanthropic position. They are admirably enlightened, in my opinion. There are very few of these types, and I think they are phony as well.

So by this reasoning, interracial marriages are phoney Marylin Monroe?

And again, by your reasoning, those who are white with dear friends who are Indian are also phoney Marylin Monroe?