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Section 8 · Oct 5, 2003, 07:41 pm

Alright, I've been very pissed about this for awhile. The other day though something pushed me over the line. I was bored, and was browsing channels on TV. I came across a kiddy channel, and saw a commercial that caught my attention. There was this person who was saying that he used to live in Cambodia, and was under rule by an evil Communist Dictator. He went on to saying that it was so great to live in the US, and talked about the "Communist Dictator" and how he brutally murdered people.

I can just imagine some young kid watching TV, and saying "look at those damn commies, all they do is preach hate"

Really people, I think we should draw the line with this fucked up brainwashing. Communist Dictator is an oxymoron. I remember that my teachers kept on telling me that Communism was evil. People said how lucky they were to live in the USA, and not some godless communist country. This must stop. I wonder what happened to freedom for a fair education. They only teach you what they want to, if the curriculum disagrees with their burgousie views then it must be burned. What a sad society that we live in.

Geoff332 · Oct 5, 2003, 08:21 pm

Pol Pot (like Stalin and Mao) claimed to be communist. They were also dictators. The term communist dictator comes from combining the claim and the observation. Oxymoronic or not, Pol Pot was a communist dictator.

Perhaps not everyone sees communism the same way as you do?

GreatWyrm of Babylon · Oct 6, 2003, 01:07 am

All attempts at a "People's revolution" seem to end up with a dictatorship, why should it seem strange that people confuse the two? Hel, our attempt at a Democracy ended up short as well, but at least it got closer to the intended destination.

Communism/socialism is based on the flawed theory that power can be given back to the people after it is 'collected'. Humanity is simply not wired that way...

Section 8 · Oct 6, 2003, 02:27 am

GWB, you could use the anarchist form of revolution, where the power is collected by the people, avoiding the middle man.

castille · Oct 15, 2003, 07:31 am

Actually, today's youth seem to be brainwashed by Communists.

When they see a company, they say "Look its Evil Corporation, every company is evil and sacrifices virgins to their god!".

Or when they see anything American, they say "America is evil! Lets go lynch them!".

Or my favourite, when they see Stalin's pictures, they say "It would be cool to live in Russia in 1941".

Youth have a tendency to lean towards extreme viewpoints. Communism and Nazism attracts youth, as young teenagers dislike the status quo and choose to rebel. And capitalism is the status quo, and thus the target for protest.

When I was young I remember this right-leaning ultra-nationalist group formed discretlely in China. The kids (including me) organised it under the guise of the young pioneers (school youth league). Emotionally-based, no logic, but VERY appealing ("One People, One Empire, One China!", and "Say No to foreign imperialism!").

G. Adams · Oct 15, 2003, 09:13 am

It is not that young people are attracted to extremism, I believe, but that as people grow up they lose the will power to try and change the world for the better, preferring to 'better' themselves alone.

And todays youth are not brainwashed by communists. You should see the arguments I had everytime I had when I said I was a communist. its like a damned trained reaction. You look at the TV, is there any left wing news channels? Are there any major left wing newspapers? No, to both. In Britain we have ONE left leaning newspaper, the Guardian, and even that is centrist really. And as for the TV its all right wing. You have to wait till midnight usually before you get any left wing films or documentaries.

And Corporations are 'evil', though I wouldn't use that term. They are not inherently bad, its just the purpose of them is to extricate more profit for its shareholders, which means either cutting jobs, screwing pension plans over, making workers work longer hours, cutting pay etc. All stuff that hurts the worker without benefiting him at all.

There has been a confusion of terms when people say they hate America, just as when people say they hate communism. People hated the governments of the USSR, China, Cambodia etc, without knowing the systems themselves. And when people say they hate America, they hate the governments of America, rather than 'America' itself.

Section 8 · Oct 15, 2003, 11:59 am

Ha! I remember when my nephew came and stayed with me. The kids were taught that communims was evil, and they did all these things about how great America is. All of his friends were brainwashed capitalists. They never learn that America's corporations are evil, instead they are taught that all communists are fascist America haters. If they were really taught all that you said, the US would be communist already.

Waychel · Oct 15, 2003, 11:48 pm

Hey, where the hell do you live, anyways? I've been wondering.. because if you live in the US, that's pretty funny.

castille · Oct 16, 2003, 09:30 am

What is ironic about corporations is that the shareholders are the normal people, and in many cases, the workers.

Strange isn't it? The public are demanding profits from corporations, and thus are supporting their own "exploitation". Even workers of the corporation do the same (as many company structures allow workers to purchase shares on better conditions).

As far as I can see, there are more youth Communists than youth capitalists. Youth do not want to hear about economic figures, they want to hear things like "Globalisation sucks!" "Corporations exploit!" and "Death to Amerika!". My university sees at least one pro-Communist protest once a week. Most of them are well-off middle class academic students.

I watched a TV news report where one of the teenagers at an anti-globalisation protest was wearing Nike t-shirt, and nike shoes. The reporter asked "So what do you think globalisation is?", and the teen answered "I dont know, but its bad!".

Its all about emotion. My dad used to be a Red Guard, and he still can't remember why he joined. He did remember that it was very emotional, getting youth to an almost hysterical mania. Red books were waved, flags were waved, books were burnt, capitalism was attacked, and Western concepts were destroyed. Today, he just sighs, and wishes he'd just ignored the whole affair.

Unfortunately I can't give any good translations of Chinese Communist mottos (it wouldnt convey the emotion you'd feel). Thre was one that ran like "Red is the only way, don't betray the people by capitalism!" (in Chinese, its quite catchy).

G. Adams · Oct 16, 2003, 11:22 am

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (castille,)
What is ironic about corporations is that the shareholders are the normal people, and in many cases, the workers.

Strange isn't it? The public are demanding profits from corporations, and thus are supporting their own "exploitation". Even workers of the corporation do the same (as many company structures allow workers to purchase shares on better conditions).

As far as I can see, there are more youth Communists than youth capitalists. Youth do not want to hear about economic figures, they want to hear things like "Globalisation sucks!" "Corporations exploit!" and "Death to Amerika!". My university sees at least one pro-Communist protest once a week. Most of them are well-off middle class academic students.

I watched a TV news report where one of the teenagers at an anti-globalisation protest was wearing Nike t-shirt, and nike shoes. The reporter asked "So what do you think globalisation is?", and the teen answered "I dont know, but its bad!".

Its all about emotion. My dad used to be a Red Guard, and he still can't remember why he joined. He did remember that it was very emotional, getting youth to an almost hysterical mania. Red books were waved, flags were waved, books were burnt, capitalism was attacked, and Western concepts were destroyed. Today, he just sighs, and wishes he'd just ignored the whole affair.

Unfortunately I can't give any good translations of Chinese Communist mottos (it wouldnt convey the emotion you'd feel). Thre was one that ran like "Red is the only way, don't betray the people by capitalism!" (in Chinese, its quite catchy).<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

You should come to my university. I'm surrounded by Tories in my political sociology. at least my lecturer writes for the weekly worker, but other than that I am politically alone in that bit of the course.

Section 8 · Oct 16, 2003, 08:57 pm

I live in Arizona, US.

Castille; what do you base your information on? I went to my nephews school to pick him up, and there was tousands of god bless america bullshit. That is brainwashing. Your saying just because of college kids go out and protest, means that all of the college students are communists. I'd say at least 80% of college students are anti-communist. If there are so many communists, then how come socialists aren't elected into office of any kind. That's because there is a very few, but they're the ones you see. You don't see the others, you just see what the news tells you.

eXploiTeD · Oct 19, 2003, 01:02 pm

Castille bases his information on a variety of misconceptions about anti-globalization activists, and nothing more.

castille · Oct 24, 2003, 08:43 am

I've based my information on Australia, and by the hundreds of thousands of American anti-globalization protestors.

Want to know what I see when I get to university? Socialist and Communist posters that actually cover up ALL the pillars, notice boards, and even stuck on escalators. Not a single pro-democracy, or pro-capitalist poster.

Actually I saw one today - it said "Death to America! Attend a Marxist demonstration this afternoon against Bush's undemocratic visit to corrupt Australians." Another said "Keep American filth in filthy America!". A bunch said something about Marx and why capitalism is evil.

Any posters supporting capitalism? Nup. None for democracy, its just Communism. Ironically, my economics professor has her door plastered with photos of Mao.

Section 8 · Oct 24, 2003, 10:10 am

Castille, note how you saw only the protestors. Probably 100,000 out of 50 million. Capitalists don't go to protests, because their system is already in effect. If there were so many communists, which there isn't, then why wouldn't the revolution be happening?

castille · Oct 25, 2003, 05:09 am

Er....because nobody wants Communism again?

Face it. Your Communist system can't work, and people know this.

Yes, you will claim that people are "brainwashed" into capitalism. But what about China? People there are fed Communist propaganda every day, yet they still prefer capitalism.

I believe neo-Nazis claim that the Aryan race has been "brainwashed" by anti-Nazi propaganda too....

EVERY society has its rebels. Whether its leather-jacketed guys on motorbikes, socialists, Nazis, etc. No such society can ever make everyone happy, because people will always blame everyone else. On wait, today my hand hurts. Lets blame the Jews!

The Devil · Oct 25, 2003, 04:02 pm

Communism and democracy can co-exist. You just have a warped definition of "democracy" and "communism". I think you're confusing communism with facism.

castille · Oct 27, 2003, 08:32 am

Communism is more similiar to Fascism than anyone wants to admit.

G. Adams · Oct 27, 2003, 04:46 pm

In what ways is real communism similar to real fascism? Many of us have posted all over this site describing how the two are not similar, i'd like to see you actually put it down.

Impenitent · Oct 27, 2003, 04:53 pm

similar? real simple... in fascism you are a slave to the group or state...
in communism you are a slave to the group or state but you lie and say there is no state, just slavery to the group...

you will never admit this of course, but it is the truth...

G. Adams · Oct 27, 2003, 04:58 pm

Its the truth because Impenant says it is. My my don't we think big of ourselves.

Could you please at least reason your argument if your not gonna do a proper fact and quote post?

Oct 6, 2003, 01:07 am	#3 (permalink) (top)
GreatWyrm of Babylon Avatar of Tiamut Location: Dallas, Texas (Irving) Posts: 848	All attempts at a "People's revolution" seem to end up with a dictatorship, why should it seem strange that people confuse the two? Hel, our attempt at a Democracy ended up short as well, but at least it got closer to the intended destination. Communism/socialism is based on the flawed theory that power can be given back to the people after it is 'collected'. Humanity is simply not wired that way... Logical Fallicies Link

Oct 15, 2003, 07:31 am	#5 (permalink) (top)
castille Citizen #21521 Posts: 2,599	Actually, today's youth seem to be brainwashed by Communists. When they see a company, they say "Look its Evil Corporation, every company is evil and sacrifices virgins to their god!". Or when they see anything American, they say "America is evil! Lets go lynch them!". Or my favourite, when they see Stalin's pictures, they say "It would be cool to live in Russia in 1941". Youth have a tendency to lean towards extreme viewpoints. Communism and Nazism attracts youth, as young teenagers dislike the status quo and choose to rebel. And capitalism is the status quo, and thus the target for protest. When I was young I remember this right-leaning ultra-nationalist group formed discretlely in China. The kids (including me) organised it under the guise of the young pioneers (school youth league). Emotionally-based, no logic, but VERY appealing ("One People, One Empire, One China!", and "Say No to foreign imperialism!"). Ideological loyalty is the act of giving your soul to a vague concept, to be manipulated by people smarter than you.

Oct 15, 2003, 09:13 am	#6 (permalink) (top)
G. Adams Fyrdman Location: Middlesbrough UK Posts: 4,152	It is not that young people are attracted to extremism, I believe, but that as people grow up they lose the will power to try and change the world for the better, preferring to 'better' themselves alone. And todays youth are not brainwashed by communists. You should see the arguments I had everytime I had when I said I was a communist. its like a damned trained reaction. You look at the TV, is there any left wing news channels? Are there any major left wing newspapers? No, to both. In Britain we have ONE left leaning newspaper, the Guardian, and even that is centrist really. And as for the TV its all right wing. You have to wait till midnight usually before you get any left wing films or documentaries. And Corporations are 'evil', though I wouldn't use that term. They are not inherently bad, its just the purpose of them is to extricate more profit for its shareholders, which means either cutting jobs, screwing pension plans over, making workers work longer hours, cutting pay etc. All stuff that hurts the worker without benefiting him at all. There has been a confusion of terms when people say they hate America, just as when people say they hate communism. People hated the governments of the USSR, China, Cambodia etc, without knowing the systems themselves. And when people say they hate America, they hate the governments of America, rather than 'America' itself. Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Winston Churchill

Oct 15, 2003, 11:48 pm	#8 (permalink) (top)
Waychel Supercalifragilistic Posts: 431	Hey, where the hell do you live, anyways? I've been wondering.. because if you live in the US, that's pretty funny. Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee.

Oct 16, 2003, 09:30 am	#9 (permalink) (top)
castille Citizen #21521 Posts: 2,599	What is ironic about corporations is that the shareholders are the normal people, and in many cases, the workers. Strange isn't it? The public are demanding profits from corporations, and thus are supporting their own "exploitation". Even workers of the corporation do the same (as many company structures allow workers to purchase shares on better conditions). As far as I can see, there are more youth Communists than youth capitalists. Youth do not want to hear about economic figures, they want to hear things like "Globalisation sucks!" "Corporations exploit!" and "Death to Amerika!". My university sees at least one pro-Communist protest once a week. Most of them are well-off middle class academic students. I watched a TV news report where one of the teenagers at an anti-globalisation protest was wearing Nike t-shirt, and nike shoes. The reporter asked "So what do you think globalisation is?", and the teen answered "I dont know, but its bad!". Its all about emotion. My dad used to be a Red Guard, and he still can't remember why he joined. He did remember that it was very emotional, getting youth to an almost hysterical mania. Red books were waved, flags were waved, books were burnt, capitalism was attacked, and Western concepts were destroyed. Today, he just sighs, and wishes he'd just ignored the whole affair. Unfortunately I can't give any good translations of Chinese Communist mottos (it wouldnt convey the emotion you'd feel). Thre was one that ran like "Red is the only way, don't betray the people by capitalism!" (in Chinese, its quite catchy). Ideological loyalty is the act of giving your soul to a vague concept, to be manipulated by people smarter than you.

Oct 5, 2003, 07:41 pm	#1 (permalink) (top)
Section 8 Hot Lava Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 782	Alright, I've been very pissed about this for awhile. The other day though something pushed me over the line. I was bored, and was browsing channels on TV. I came across a kiddy channel, and saw a commercial that caught my attention. There was this person who was saying that he used to live in Cambodia, and was under rule by an evil Communist Dictator. He went on to saying that it was so great to live in the US, and talked about the "Communist Dictator" and how he brutally murdered people. I can just imagine some young kid watching TV, and saying "look at those damn commies, all they do is preach hate" Really people, I think we should draw the line with this fucked up brainwashing. Communist Dictator is an oxymoron. I remember that my teachers kept on telling me that Communism was evil. People said how lucky they were to live in the USA, and not some godless communist country. This must stop. I wonder what happened to freedom for a fair education. They only teach you what they want to, if the curriculum disagrees with their burgousie views then it must be burned. What a sad society that we live in.

Oct 5, 2003, 08:21 pm	#2 (permalink) (top)
Geoff332 Igneous Magma Location: New Zealand Posts: 309	Pol Pot (like Stalin and Mao) claimed to be communist. They were also dictators. The term communist dictator comes from combining the claim and the observation. Oxymoronic or not, Pol Pot was a communist dictator. Perhaps not everyone sees communism the same way as you do?

Oct 6, 2003, 02:27 am	#4 (permalink) (top)
Section 8 Hot Lava Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 782	GWB, you could use the anarchist form of revolution, where the power is collected by the people, avoiding the middle man.

Oct 15, 2003, 11:59 am	#7 (permalink) (top)
Section 8 Hot Lava Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 782	Ha! I remember when my nephew came and stayed with me. The kids were taught that communims was evil, and they did all these things about how great America is. All of his friends were brainwashed capitalists. They never learn that America's corporations are evil, instead they are taught that all communists are fascist America haters. If they were really taught all that you said, the US would be communist already.

Oct 16, 2003, 11:22 am	#10 (permalink) (top)
G. Adams Fyrdman Location: Middlesbrough UK Posts: 4,152	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (castille,) What is ironic about corporations is that the shareholders are the normal people, and in many cases, the workers. Strange isn't it? The public are demanding profits from corporations, and thus are supporting their own "exploitation". Even workers of the corporation do the same (as many company structures allow workers to purchase shares on better conditions). As far as I can see, there are more youth Communists than youth capitalists. Youth do not want to hear about economic figures, they want to hear things like "Globalisation sucks!" "Corporations exploit!" and "Death to Amerika!". My university sees at least one pro-Communist protest once a week. Most of them are well-off middle class academic students. I watched a TV news report where one of the teenagers at an anti-globalisation protest was wearing Nike t-shirt, and nike shoes. The reporter asked "So what do you think globalisation is?", and the teen answered "I dont know, but its bad!". Its all about emotion. My dad used to be a Red Guard, and he still can't remember why he joined. He did remember that it was very emotional, getting youth to an almost hysterical mania. Red books were waved, flags were waved, books were burnt, capitalism was attacked, and Western concepts were destroyed. Today, he just sighs, and wishes he'd just ignored the whole affair. Unfortunately I can't give any good translations of Chinese Communist mottos (it wouldnt convey the emotion you'd feel). Thre was one that ran like "Red is the only way, don't betray the people by capitalism!" (in Chinese, its quite catchy).<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> You should come to my university. I'm surrounded by Tories in my political sociology. at least my lecturer writes for the weekly worker, but other than that I am politically alone in that bit of the course. Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Winston Churchill

Oct 16, 2003, 08:57 pm	#11 (permalink) (top)
Section 8 Hot Lava Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 782	I live in Arizona, US. Castille; what do you base your information on? I went to my nephews school to pick him up, and there was tousands of god bless america bullshit. That is brainwashing. Your saying just because of college kids go out and protest, means that all of the college students are communists. I'd say at least 80% of college students are anti-communist. If there are so many communists, then how come socialists aren't elected into office of any kind. That's because there is a very few, but they're the ones you see. You don't see the others, you just see what the news tells you.

Oct 19, 2003, 01:02 pm	#12 (permalink) (top)
eXploiTeD Molten Ash Posts: 32	Castille bases his information on a variety of misconceptions about anti-globalization activists, and nothing more.

Oct 24, 2003, 08:43 am	#13 (permalink) (top)
castille Citizen #21521 Posts: 2,599	I've based my information on Australia, and by the hundreds of thousands of American anti-globalization protestors. Want to know what I see when I get to university? Socialist and Communist posters that actually cover up ALL the pillars, notice boards, and even stuck on escalators. Not a single pro-democracy, or pro-capitalist poster. Actually I saw one today - it said "Death to America! Attend a Marxist demonstration this afternoon against Bush's undemocratic visit to corrupt Australians." Another said "Keep American filth in filthy America!". A bunch said something about Marx and why capitalism is evil. Any posters supporting capitalism? Nup. None for democracy, its just Communism. Ironically, my economics professor has her door plastered with photos of Mao. Ideological loyalty is the act of giving your soul to a vague concept, to be manipulated by people smarter than you.

Oct 24, 2003, 10:10 am	#14 (permalink) (top)
Section 8 Hot Lava Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 782	Castille, note how you saw only the protestors. Probably 100,000 out of 50 million. Capitalists don't go to protests, because their system is already in effect. If there were so many communists, which there isn't, then why wouldn't the revolution be happening?

Oct 25, 2003, 05:09 am	#15 (permalink) (top)
castille Citizen #21521 Posts: 2,599	Er....because nobody wants Communism again? Face it. Your Communist system can't work, and people know this. Yes, you will claim that people are "brainwashed" into capitalism. But what about China? People there are fed Communist propaganda every day, yet they still prefer capitalism. I believe neo-Nazis claim that the Aryan race has been "brainwashed" by anti-Nazi propaganda too.... EVERY society has its rebels. Whether its leather-jacketed guys on motorbikes, socialists, Nazis, etc. No such society can ever make everyone happy, because people will always blame everyone else. On wait, today my hand hurts. Lets blame the Jews! Ideological loyalty is the act of giving your soul to a vague concept, to be manipulated by people smarter than you.

Oct 25, 2003, 04:02 pm	#16 (permalink) (top)
The Devil Molten Ash Location: Canada Posts: 55	Communism and democracy can co-exist. You just have a warped definition of "democracy" and "communism". I think you're confusing communism with facism.

Oct 27, 2003, 08:32 am	#17 (permalink) (top)
castille Citizen #21521 Posts: 2,599	Communism is more similiar to Fascism than anyone wants to admit. Ideological loyalty is the act of giving your soul to a vague concept, to be manipulated by people smarter than you.

Oct 27, 2003, 04:46 pm	#18 (permalink) (top)
G. Adams Fyrdman Location: Middlesbrough UK Posts: 4,152	In what ways is real communism similar to real fascism? Many of us have posted all over this site describing how the two are not similar, i'd like to see you actually put it down. Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Winston Churchill

Oct 27, 2003, 04:53 pm	#19 (permalink) (top)
Impenitent Hot Lava Posts: 1,859	similar? real simple... in fascism you are a slave to the group or state... in communism you are a slave to the group or state but you lie and say there is no state, just slavery to the group... you will never admit this of course, but it is the truth... "I really like this jacket, but the sleeves are much too long..." insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results...

Oct 27, 2003, 04:58 pm	#20 (permalink) (top)
G. Adams Fyrdman Location: Middlesbrough UK Posts: 4,152	Its the truth because Impenant says it is. My my don't we think big of ourselves. Could you please at least reason your argument if your not gonna do a proper fact and quote post? Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Winston Churchill