Affirmative Action is Wrong

[Jakob]

Is it? Are you suggesting that we are to shrug off past sins by saying, "Sorry, that was my daddy, not me. I'd pay you back if I had done it, but, well, straight out of luck, huh?"

[Castle]

Quote by: Jakob Is it? Are you suggesting that we are to shrug off past sins by saying, "Sorry, that was my daddy, not me. I'd pay you back if I had done it, but, well, straight out of luck, huh?"

I might suggest, at the very least, that if you really wished to help those who were worse off, you would start with socio-economic groups, not races. The middle and upper class blacks have evidently recovered from the past sins that have been perpetrated upon them.

And yes, call me crazy, but I'm of the opinion that those who do the crime should be punished for it, not their descendents.

[Jakob]

But if the victims are left unrecompensed, should not some step in?

[JohnMK]

Affirmative Action is wrong (certainly nowadays).

After the Civil War, some effort to address issues was warranted. I'm not sure what these could have or should have been. What are your thoughts?

[Jakob]

I hope you were asking me, 'cause I'm answering. Certainly reparations should have been paid. unfortunately, those designated to pay them paid themselves instead. Such is often the case in humanity, that ethics and politics are never to be found in the same room, unless one is seducing the other.

[tinybear]

Quote by: Jakob But if the victims are left unrecompensed, should not some step in?

I should've thought the 'victims' are long gone by now.

[copabeat]

Affirmative action is something I deal with on a daily basis. I am a Police Sergeant in a predominantly "Black" city. I was born and raised there myself and also grew up in the "Ghetto" as a so called "white person" (hate that term")

I will share some stories I have seen because of affirmative action. First it took me till I was almost thirty years old to finally get on the Police Force, after trying for six or seven years. At that time I blamed it on affirmative action as my scores were high and my will was stronger. I entered the Academy with about 65% black, 25% white and the balance mixed. From day one we were divided by squads of race. One of the guys I became closest with was a black guy who grew up in the projects we kinda knew each other from school but never really socialized. He had been the first in his family to graduate high school and have some college. ( his brother sat on Death row for double murder) He had two children and I have to be honest he taught me a lot about fatherhood.

This same man has put himself through college working midnights and going to school in the day time, risen to the rank of Lieutenant maintaining a 3.8 GPA and finishing first on every Police promotional exam. He is out of the "projects", married to a lovely woman and owns a beautiful home in the nearby suburbs. I admire him respect him and love him, he has been one of the best frinds I have ever had. Yeah, he did get a few Small breaks because of affirmative action, but he returned everything he has gotten 10 times over.

I remember another time when a "Black" family moved in to the neighborhood I live in now. People were very angry and several even moved away. It made me very upset, I couldn't believe people could still be so ignorant. Well they turned out to be the best neighbors anyone could have asked for, the kids were wonderful too. The oldest son, wound up finishing High School with a 4.0 GPA, had letters in Soccer, baseball, & football not to mention making "All-State" in all three. He had received offers of scholarships to "West Point" & Tuskee University( The Black Harvard) Amonst Others. He choose "Tuskeegee" After a year and a half he quit Tuskeegee and returned to NYU because he was so home sick and it was to tough academically. The girl thing, you know. But I am sure people thought whatever this young man accomplished was only because of affirmative action. There are smart hard working minorities too, I swear to God.

The same people that scorned them (The family) when they first moved in cried when they moved moved away. Now the neighborhood is nicely mixed, just the way I like it.

[tinybear]

So, in other words, do you think these people whom you mentioned could have done just as well without affirmative action? Yes or no?

[Fonceai]

I think JohnMK pretty much had it.

There had to be something to make sure that blacks were regarded equally.

Currently Aff. Action isn't as prevalent as it was in the 80's and 90's.

Back then, though, it did reach levels of nonsense where exceptions were made. Once you make exceptions for any "-ism" you've crossed the line again.

[Zhavric]

Affirmative action doesn't help blacks / minorities / who-ever it's meant for.

It breeds an attitude of entitlement and curbs healthy competition. Placement should be based on merit. Period.

[Cephus]

Quote by: Jakob But if the victims are left unrecompensed, should not some step in?

Exactly which victims are you talking about? There is no one alive today who was ever a slave, nor were their parents, nor were their grandparents. There is no one alive today who has ever owned a slave, nor their parents nor grandparents. So where are these victims who deserve compensation? Please enlighten us.

[Jakob]

That was more of a hypothetical situation in response to a broader argument. Specifically regarding affirmative action, you aren't really going to tell me that racism doesn't have an effect on people's financial situation, are you? Because I know of multiple places where racism is prominent. For example, the south still retains much of its former racism. Mid and south California have a lot of prejudice against asians. Have you heard of the law in Arizona that forces all forms of public communication and education in english, while at the same time taking away all funding for the ESL programs?

[Cephus]

Quote by: Jakob Specifically regarding affirmative action, you aren't really going to tell me that racism doesn't have an effect on people's financial situation, are you?

Not as much as some would like to think. Everyone has the opportunity to get an education, they just have to take responsibility for themselves actually learning anything. But this really has very little to do with race, but social standing. The ghettos have poor blacks, whites, hispanics and asians, it isn't the color of their skin but the lack of money in their pockets that causes them problems.

Have you heard of the law in Arizona that forces all forms of public communication and education in english, while at the same time taking away all funding for the ESL programs?

Which, of course, is a lie. It simply requires that all official state business be conducted in English. You cannot vote if you do not speak English, but since a functional understanding of English is required to become a citizen, and only citizens can vote, I fail to see where that's a problem. Public communication can be in any language you'd like, it's an outright lie to suggest otherwise.

[tinybear]

Asians aren't with the affirmative action programme you know. But that's besides the point.

What's wrong with all forms of public communication and education being in English? We're an English speaking community. If you wanna join the community, learn the language.

[Jakob]

The problem is they pulled all the fundings for the programs that teach english. Immigrants are left with no way at all of communicating.

[Cephus]

Quote by: Jakob Immigrants are left with no way at all of communicating.

I'm certain legal immigrants have a way of learning if they want to and certainly citizens must know English to begin with. Illegals... well, screw the illegals, they have no business being here to begin with.

[tinybear]

Yeah, I'd like to know they got through those interviews and exams if they didn't know some English to begin with. (The LEGAL immigrants I mean)

[copabeat]

Both my Grandparents were immigrant's, two had to learn the new language of thier adopted homes and two had very obvious "British" accent's. To be honest I had more of a hard time understanding my "English" Grandparents then My Russian Grandparents, I never heard either of the two complain. They all loved this Country till the day they died, both my Grandmothers where "Silver Star Mothers" ( Lost two son's each in WW2)

Assimilation however has little if nothing to do with affirmative action, which I favor. My wife's family holds on to thier "Italian" & "Latino" culture, I love it.

[Kamehameha34]

Quote by: tinybear Affirmative action is state-sponsored racism. Enough said.

I agree.

Why is everyone still talking?

[Jakob]

Quote by: cepheus Which, of course, is a lie. It simply requires that all official state business be conducted in English. You cannot vote if you do not speak English, but since a functional understanding of English is required to become a citizen, and only citizens can vote, I fail to see where that's a problem. Public communication can be in any language you'd like, it's an outright lie to suggest otherwise.

The way it was reported in the local paper, the funding for all ESL (English as a Second Language) programs were pulled, and all street signs, posters, and other forms of media were in English, and English only.