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nickjh85 · Sep 28, 2006, 07:04 pm

My question is this, if you are currently serving active duty and you recieve a job offer while you are in (I'll use myself as an example) for $100,000/year + fringe benefits; medical, housing automobile, children schooling allowance, paid vacation, profit sharing bonus', etc. Why is there no chapter in AR-635-200 that allows early separation.

Especially when you you aquire this offer by no means the military provided you. What I mean by that is:

1. the job was not offered because of any military experience
2. it was not offered because of an education that the military provided me

I know what most are going to tell me... You took the oath, waived rights etc. But what seems jacked up to me is that I have no right to better my family financially by simply taking the better job.

I have not started the paperwork yet to attempt this, but I have a good friend in legal who has recommended I try to go the route of chapter 5 under 635-200 for the simple fact that when people win the Lottery or come into an extremely large inheritance that's the chapter they go through to get out.

Any advice or help would be greatly appreciated because im in the grey area on this one, and it could go either way depending on how I present my case.

**Chris** · Sep 28, 2006, 09:33 pm

Well, You did sign the paper...It is jacked up indeed, but ... you did sign the paper.. I don't know what else to tell you. What branch of service are you anyway?

**Jack** · Sep 28, 2006, 10:06 pm

I'm guessing Marines, but I won't say why.
The problem is that military service is not just another job.
Conflicts are waged based on estimates on troop strength. Imagine the chaos if troop strength changed from month to month because some were leaving for better jobs, others because they wanted to be closer to home, still others because they don't want to die. By having set-term enlistments, military actions can be planned better. As can the amount of supplies needed by the different branches, etc. The military is all about planning. And by limiting the reasons a person can request a discharge, they create a limit on the variations in troop strength.

Then there's the contract... Ask a lawyer about that one.

**Chris** · Sep 28, 2006, 11:06 pm

Here is the "paper" in question. My copy from 1993: (sorry for the crinkles) it had been in storage for ages)

underbear1 · Sep 28, 2006, 11:18 pm

The military OWNS you until they tell you they don't. I'd suggest a gay affair, but don't go by me, that's what I always suggest..............LOL

Morgan_Freeman · Sep 28, 2006, 11:44 pm

What a whiner. If your qualifications are so good, then you should have no problem getting a similar job once you're out.

underbear1 · Sep 29, 2006, 01:28 am

My ex lover's son who was top of his medical class, but had used the Air Force pay for his education, lost out on being able to do his residency at John Hopkins, cuz when the military tells you what to do, you have NO CHOICE.

lsbskins1 · Sep 29, 2006, 09:05 am

Think of yourself as an elite athelete. You were signed to a multi-year contract by the Washington Nationals. You got time left. It does not matter if Steinbrenner is pushing 100 million dollar offer under your door now, you gotta wait for the other contract to expire. You aint an at-will employee, you are under contract. You signed it.

Fonceai · Sep 29, 2006, 11:30 am

@nickjh85

You're not going to like this answer...

When I was in the Air Force I went through the same thing. I could get a really nice paying job. I never accepted them.

The thing your lawyer told you about... getting out for the same reason as Lottery winners... do you know why that is?

For those who don't, it's because if you have a significant amount of money you have no reason to follow orders. The payment from the military and the benefits aren't enough, so they separate you.

A $100K job offer probably won't cut it.

It is possible to get such a lucrative offer while you're still in, but here's something to consider...

Do they know you're in the military?

If they are still offering and don't understand, I don't think you want to work for them.

That indicates they think they can buy you off and have no consideration for other things. Might be bad news.

Also... you signed the paperwork. Do your time. If you can get $100K a year now, you'll be just as qualified but have more experience if you finish out your contract.

**Chris** · Sep 29, 2006, 11:54 am

well said Fonceai

Fonceai · Sep 29, 2006, 12:57 pm

Something else about this occurred to me...

Quote:

Especially when you you aquire this offer by no means the military provided you. What I mean by that is:

1. the job was not offered because of any military experience
2. it was not offered because of an education that the military provided me

This would imply that this is based on experience and education from BEFORE you signed up.

Which begs the question... why did you enlist in the military if you could land a 6 figure job?

Similar to the Watada situation... and no offense intended... but if you were crazy enough to sign up then finishing your time will teach you a valuable lesson.

xyzer · Sep 30, 2006, 09:15 am

ish..points out the bottom line...You are under contract!
Your can't violate its terms without getting some sort of sanction. The same is true whether you are in the military or working for some other entity.
The sanctions applicable to the military service are much more stringent and severe that those in some civilian organization. So your stuck for the duration of your contract....

JohnMK · Oct 5, 2006, 01:04 am

How about the route of honesty? Inform this company of your good ethic: that you will not leave a contract no matter what benefits it might bring you, but that you are very interested in the job when you get out should the need remain. This should impress any employer at least a little bit, maybe even enough that they might create an opening for you when you finally do become available.

PatrickHenry · Oct 5, 2006, 03:46 am

I think Nick forgot he posted this.

The US military sucks. They should all realize that their oath to defend the constitution against enemies includes the domestic enemies residing in Washington. Unwarranted foreign wars are getting US warriors killed, but they won't step back from the plate and swat down the pitch thrown at their heads. The brass has no balls.

Fonceai · Oct 5, 2006, 06:33 pm

I can honestly say that the enemies in D.C. were one of the reasons I left the military.

The problem is that those enemies are the hands that feed you, the pay you, and give you everything you have, but also give you orders that are legal but skirt the very edge of what you can tolerate.

The Architect · Oct 6, 2006, 05:51 pm

Maybe the military should offer some more incentives and bonuses, maybe gice taxbreak to servicemens family. The would boost enrollment which i think we need if we want to stay in Iraq and try to stop NK and Iran from getting nukes.

Fonceai · Oct 6, 2006, 10:19 pm

They used to have re-enlistment bonuses for many jobs.

At least, they did in the Air Force.

They realized that you could make some really good money in the private sector doing the jobs that paid dick in the military.

For instance, my AFSC was 3C2X1.

Once upon a time, I had a Selective Re-enlistment Bonus (SRB) of 6.

That meant that my re-enlistment bonus was my SRB * Monthy Pay * Number of Years of Re-Enlistment.

With an SRB of 6, a 6 Year Re-Up, and a $2,000 a month paycheck, that meant you got $72,000 for Re-upping. You got half up front, and the remainder spread over the 6 years.

If you did this while you were in the Middle East, it was tax-free.

They got rid of that, because too many people were staying in and getting the $72K tax free.

What happened was they started bleeding highly qualified professionals.

The highly technical people are leaving.

The Architect · Oct 6, 2006, 11:02 pm

People are leaving, I see that a not such a good sign, the government should do something to keep people in the army, and to sign up.

nickjh85 · Oct 10, 2006, 08:37 pm

No I haven't forgotten that I posted this, and I appreciate your comments... Maybe I should explain a little more.

The job is being offered by my father, so there's no integrity checks there.

The reason why I need to take this now is that he can't give me this job once I get out in '08. The reason being that if I walked into this job now, it would be more of an apprenticeship on how to actually fill the contracts and distribute the products. By the time '08 rolls around theres gonna be far too much money at stake for me to learn. Ex. Right now he's turning 5-7mil dolar contracts at %24 profits... By '08 they are gonna be upwards from 60mil dollar contracts at %40 profits... That's an exponential increase in a year and half...

Anyways you see what I'm getting at here?

I've already submitted my Chapter packet along with an in depth explanation as far as why I need to take this job now.

I guess I'll see how it turns out... And if anyone cares what the outcome is it will definately be posted here, and I promise to check this thread much sooner than after my first post...

nickjh85 · Oct 10, 2006, 08:41 pm

And I'm not a Marine for whoever said that, I'm in the army. :-P

Sep 28, 2006, 07:04 pm	#1 (permalink) (top)
nickjh85 Sedimentary Rock Posts: 3	Active military waiving rights... My question is this, if you are currently serving active duty and you recieve a job offer while you are in (I'll use myself as an example) for $100,000/year + fringe benefits; medical, housing automobile, children schooling allowance, paid vacation, profit sharing bonus', etc. Why is there no chapter in AR-635-200 that allows early separation. Especially when you you aquire this offer by no means the military provided you. What I mean by that is: 1. the job was not offered because of any military experience 2. it was not offered because of an education that the military provided me I know what most are going to tell me... You took the oath, waived rights etc. But what seems jacked up to me is that I have no right to better my family financially by simply taking the better job. I have not started the paperwork yet to attempt this, but I have a good friend in legal who has recommended I try to go the route of chapter 5 under 635-200 for the simple fact that when people win the Lottery or come into an extremely large inheritance that's the chapter they go through to get out. Any advice or help would be greatly appreciated because im in the grey area on this one, and it could go either way depending on how I present my case.

Sep 28, 2006, 09:33 pm	#2 (permalink) (top)
Chris Gamma-ray burst Location: Nashville Posts: 6,294	Well, You did sign the paper...It is jacked up indeed, but ... you did sign the paper.. I don't know what else to tell you. What branch of service are you anyway? Delusion- A persistent false belief held in the face of strong contradictory evidence. (i.e. religion) Shared

Sep 28, 2006, 10:06 pm	#3 (permalink) (top)
Jack formerly Isherwood Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 13,335	I'm guessing Marines, but I won't say why. The problem is that military service is not just another job. Conflicts are waged based on estimates on troop strength. Imagine the chaos if troop strength changed from month to month because some were leaving for better jobs, others because they wanted to be closer to home, still others because they don't want to die. By having set-term enlistments, military actions can be planned better. As can the amount of supplies needed by the different branches, etc. The military is all about planning. And by limiting the reasons a person can request a discharge, they create a limit on the variations in troop strength. Then there's the contract... Ask a lawyer about that one. The Forum Rules Radical Atheist Heathen Queer Let's agree to respect each others views, no matter how wrong yours may be. (Ashleigh Brilliant)

Sep 28, 2006, 11:06 pm	#4 (permalink) (top)
Chris Gamma-ray burst Location: Nashville Posts: 6,294	Here is the "paper" in question. My copy from 1993: (sorry for the crinkles) it had been in storage for ages) Delusion- A persistent false belief held in the face of strong contradictory evidence. (i.e. religion) Shared

Sep 28, 2006, 11:44 pm	#6 (permalink) (top)
Morgan_Freeman Illogic Hunter Location: Seattle Posts: 2,385	What a whiner. If your qualifications are so good, then you should have no problem getting a similar job once you're out. "A republic, if you can keep it." -- Benjamin Franklin Free State Project freestateproject.org

Sep 28, 2006, 11:18 pm	#5 (permalink) (top)
underbear1 BANNED Posts: 2,630	The military OWNS you until they tell you they don't. I'd suggest a gay affair, but don't go by me, that's what I always suggest..............LOL

Sep 29, 2006, 01:28 am	#7 (permalink) (top)
underbear1 BANNED Posts: 2,630	My ex lover's son who was top of his medical class, but had used the Air Force pay for his education, lost out on being able to do his residency at John Hopkins, cuz when the military tells you what to do, you have NO CHOICE.

Sep 29, 2006, 09:05 am	#8 (permalink) (top)
lsbskins1 Redskins Rule Location: South-Western Virginia Posts: 2,456	Think of yourself as an elite athelete. You were signed to a multi-year contract by the Washington Nationals. You got time left. It does not matter if Steinbrenner is pushing 100 million dollar offer under your door now, you gotta wait for the other contract to expire. You aint an at-will employee, you are under contract. You signed it. All I see when I look down, something jumpin' on the ground, Scratchin' dirt, cluckin' in the barnyard - Tell me, could that be you? John Kay

Sep 29, 2006, 11:30 am	#9 (permalink) (top)
Fonceai BANNED Location: New York Posts: 4,217	@nickjh85 You're not going to like this answer... When I was in the Air Force I went through the same thing. I could get a really nice paying job. I never accepted them. The thing your lawyer told you about... getting out for the same reason as Lottery winners... do you know why that is? For those who don't, it's because if you have a significant amount of money you have no reason to follow orders. The payment from the military and the benefits aren't enough, so they separate you. A $100K job offer probably won't cut it. It is possible to get such a lucrative offer while you're still in, but here's something to consider... Do they know you're in the military? If they are still offering and don't understand, I don't think you want to work for them. That indicates they think they can buy you off and have no consideration for other things. Might be bad news. Also... you signed the paperwork. Do your time. If you can get $100K a year now, you'll be just as qualified but have more experience if you finish out your contract.

Sep 29, 2006, 11:54 am	#10 (permalink) (top)
Chris Gamma-ray burst Location: Nashville Posts: 6,294	well said Fonceai Delusion- A persistent false belief held in the face of strong contradictory evidence. (i.e. religion) Shared

Sep 30, 2006, 09:15 am	#12 (permalink) (top)
xyzer Liberated thinker Location: New Mexican Alps Posts: 2,113	ish..points out the bottom line...You are under contract! Your can't violate its terms without getting some sort of sanction. The same is true whether you are in the military or working for some other entity. The sanctions applicable to the military service are much more stringent and severe that those in some civilian organization. So your stuck for the duration of your contract.... Thus we play the fools with the time, and the spirits of the wise sit in the clouds and mock us.

Oct 5, 2006, 01:04 am	#13 (permalink) (top)
JohnMK Laissez-Faire Location: Seattle Posts: 539	How about the route of honesty? Inform this company of your good ethic: that you will not leave a contract no matter what benefits it might bring you, but that you are very interested in the job when you get out should the need remain. This should impress any employer at least a little bit, maybe even enough that they might create an opening for you when you finally do become available.

Oct 5, 2006, 03:46 am	#14 (permalink) (top)
PatrickHenry 9/11: Inside Job Location: Hawai'i, Big Island Posts: 10,438	I think Nick forgot he posted this. The US military sucks. They should all realize that their oath to defend the constitution against enemies includes the domestic enemies residing in Washington. Unwarranted foreign wars are getting US warriors killed, but they won't step back from the plate and swat down the pitch thrown at their heads. The brass has no balls. "Arms in the hands of the citizens may be used at individual discretion for the defense of the country, the overthrow of tyranny or private self-defense." -- John Adams

Oct 5, 2006, 06:33 pm	#15 (permalink) (top)
Fonceai BANNED Location: New York Posts: 4,217	I can honestly say that the enemies in D.C. were one of the reasons I left the military. The problem is that those enemies are the hands that feed you, the pay you, and give you everything you have, but also give you orders that are legal but skirt the very edge of what you can tolerate.

Oct 6, 2006, 05:51 pm	#16 (permalink) (top)
The Architect Agnostic, Cynic Location: New York Posts: 285	Maybe the military should offer some more incentives and bonuses, maybe gice taxbreak to servicemens family. The would boost enrollment which i think we need if we want to stay in Iraq and try to stop NK and Iran from getting nukes.

Oct 6, 2006, 10:19 pm	#17 (permalink) (top)
Fonceai BANNED Location: New York Posts: 4,217	They used to have re-enlistment bonuses for many jobs. At least, they did in the Air Force. They realized that you could make some really good money in the private sector doing the jobs that paid dick in the military. For instance, my AFSC was 3C2X1. Once upon a time, I had a Selective Re-enlistment Bonus (SRB) of 6. That meant that my re-enlistment bonus was my SRB * Monthy Pay * Number of Years of Re-Enlistment. With an SRB of 6, a 6 Year Re-Up, and a $2,000 a month paycheck, that meant you got $72,000 for Re-upping. You got half up front, and the remainder spread over the 6 years. If you did this while you were in the Middle East, it was tax-free. They got rid of that, because too many people were staying in and getting the $72K tax free. What happened was they started bleeding highly qualified professionals. The highly technical people are leaving.

Oct 6, 2006, 11:02 pm	#18 (permalink) (top)
The Architect Agnostic, Cynic Location: New York Posts: 285	People are leaving, I see that a not such a good sign, the government should do something to keep people in the army, and to sign up.

Oct 10, 2006, 08:37 pm	#19 (permalink) (top)
nickjh85 Sedimentary Rock Posts: 3	No I haven't forgotten that I posted this, and I appreciate your comments... Maybe I should explain a little more. The job is being offered by my father, so there's no integrity checks there. The reason why I need to take this now is that he can't give me this job once I get out in '08. The reason being that if I walked into this job now, it would be more of an apprenticeship on how to actually fill the contracts and distribute the products. By the time '08 rolls around theres gonna be far too much money at stake for me to learn. Ex. Right now he's turning 5-7mil dolar contracts at %24 profits... By '08 they are gonna be upwards from 60mil dollar contracts at %40 profits... That's an exponential increase in a year and half... Anyways you see what I'm getting at here? I've already submitted my Chapter packet along with an in depth explanation as far as why I need to take this job now. I guess I'll see how it turns out... And if anyone cares what the outcome is it will definately be posted here, and I promise to check this thread much sooner than after my first post...

Oct 10, 2006, 08:41 pm	#20 (permalink) (top)
nickjh85 Sedimentary Rock Posts: 3	And I'm not a Marine for whoever said that, I'm in the army. :-P