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Section 8 · Sep 30, 2003, 01:18 am

In Arizona, where I live, many people are infuriated at the amount of immigrants pouring over our borders daily. I just sit and laugh. These xenophobic people have no sense. It takes about 10 years to become a US citizen, those xenophobic people who oppose it are saying that immigrants should wait 10 years while their family is starving to come over here. Many immigrants are dying in the desert, and people complain about the fact that we're placing water in the desert. Why? They say that the tax payers money shouldn't go towards saving lives. Funding wars to kill people is a much better idea. I'm tired of xenophobic assholes trying to destroy the last hope of poor immigrants who just want to support their family, and would like to eat at least three meals a day. Of course, saving lives isn't one of the top priorities these days.

Have Fun
Shalom

RebelWithanAK · Sep 30, 2003, 01:33 am

I'd agree with you, but your post is half newspeak / half repetition, states nothing but your own convictions, and will serve already as a poor start to a poor debate. I'm being harsh, I know, but it just bothers me.

Fallen Angel · Sep 30, 2003, 07:58 am

Why don't you get angry at the Mexican government instead, maybe they are the reason these people are starving etc they could bring in anything with them Section 8, drugs, disease, look past your big buzz word Xenophobia and start thinking commonsense.

Section 8 · Sep 30, 2003, 10:10 am

Rebel, looking over my post it was pretty crappy, oh well I guess I'll do ok.

FA, are you saying that since people are dying it's their government's fault, so we should just get angry at the government, which probably won't do anything, instead of taking direct action to help the poor dying immigrants.

Have Fun
Shalom

Fallen Angel · Oct 1, 2003, 05:15 am

Quote:

Originally posted by Section 8@09-30-2003 10:10 AM
Rebel, looking over my post it was pretty crappy, oh well I guess I'll do ok.

FA, are you saying that since people are dying it's their government's fault, so we should just get angry at the government, which probably won't do anything, instead of taking direct action to help the poor dying immigrants.

Have Fun
Shalom

Well why should your government wear another countrys problems, did you cause them?

fedfem · Oct 1, 2003, 11:19 am

It doesn't matter what country a person is born in. They are fellow human beings and deserve compassion and respect.

G. Adams · Oct 1, 2003, 11:58 am

Quote:

Originally posted by Fallen Angel+10-01-2003 05:15 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Fallen Angel @ 10-01-2003 05:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Section 8@09-30-2003 10:10 AM
Rebel, looking over my post it was pretty crappy, oh well I guess I'll do ok.

FA, are you saying that since people are dying it's their government's fault, so we should just get angry at the government, which probably won't do anything, instead of taking direct action to help the poor dying immigrants.

Have Fun
Shalom

Well why should your government wear another countrys problems, did you cause them? [/b][/quote]
Yes, kind of. The pressure on developing countries by the US, and the EU, to cut welfare spending, labour rights and open up to Western Interests has affected these people badly, while the US and EU have thrived because of it. If we are going to push free trade onto these nations, then we should do the same for ourselves, and if we follow free trade fully, that means the free trdae of labour as well as capital.

And besides, all the white americans are descended from immigrants, and they benefitted from that migration, why deny it to other people? It goes totally against the American Way of allowing anyone from the bottom of life to succeed.

Section 8 · Oct 2, 2003, 12:27 am

FA, I thought you were pro-war. You could argue that it was the other contries job to fix whatever was wrong. Yet you support invading Iraq. See how that backfires.

People aren't expendable, government is
Shalom

Fallen Angel · Oct 2, 2003, 03:45 am

I'm not pro war, I'm not a pacifist who wants to sacrifice anything for peace either.
Section 8 if you want to hand your country over to people who just walk or catch a boat in, then why not encourage for all your borders to be removed from the world map, you don't seem to grasp how important your national security is.
It's going to be a mexican way of life soon G. Adams for a good part of your country, would you prefer that?
Do you think when they out populate you they will be just as leniant towards yourself Section 8, is that what your hoping for?

Section 8 · Oct 2, 2003, 10:27 am

If all borders were removed and the flags were burned, then yes I would feel much better. Right now though, all I'm saying is to make it alot easier to achieve citizenship.

Shalom

Fallen Angel · Oct 3, 2003, 12:25 am

Quote:

Originally posted by Section 8@10-02-2003 10:27 AM
If all borders were removed and the flags were burned, then yes I would feel much better. Right now though, all I'm saying is to make it alot easier to achieve citizenship.

Shalom

You have a very bland outlook of the world, I prefer different nationalitys keeping to their own countries etc more diversity the better, the melting pot ideal, has'nt really worked too well in our country, as every one now sticks to their own cultures pretty much.

Section 8 · Oct 3, 2003, 12:28 am

Did I say the abolition of culture? No. I said to stop nationalism, because all it does is create wars and inequality.

RebelWithanAK · Oct 3, 2003, 01:34 am

There were Chinese, FA, before there was China. The nation does not define the people - the people define the nation. The problem with nationalism is that the nation is too large to have a cohesive body of people to define it. I, as a New Yorker, find myself more in tune with people from London, Paris and Hong Kong than I do people from Cleveland, St Louis and Detroit. Why, then, should I fight to defend people in Cleveland against people in Paris?

With immigrants, most of our economy is based on immigrant labor. Legitimizing it helped smooth relations (and living standards) for everybody - and this is shown again and again, what with the Germans, the Irish, the Chinese... then again, you bumblefucks from Cleveland wouldn't know that, would you?

Fallen Angel · Oct 3, 2003, 06:32 am

Bumble fuck, have to use that one..
I'm not from Cleveland either, look, lets just agree to disagree OK, you say a nations borders are no longer relevant in this day and age, I say we still need them.
You say Tomata, I say Tomato.

G. Adams · Oct 3, 2003, 07:48 am

Quote:

Originally posted by Fallen Angel@10-02-2003 03:45 AM
I'm not pro war, I'm not a pacifist who wants to sacrifice anything for peace either.
Section 8 if you want to hand your country over to people who just walk or catch a boat in, then why not encourage for all your borders to be removed from the world map, you don't seem to grasp how important your national security is.
It's going to be a mexican way of life soon G. Adams for a good part of your country, would you prefer that?
Do you think when they out populate you they will be just as leniant towards yourself Section 8, is that what your hoping for?

Oh no, an empoverished working class and hordes of unemployed people in my country. That won't help socialism grow in britain now will it?

RebelWithanAK · Oct 3, 2003, 10:57 am

I know you're not from Cleveland, I was just using it as an example. You're from New Zealand, and while I'm sure they have the same trepidation about taking SE Asian refugees in as Howard's Australia, I can really only go on about my stretch of the earth.

One thing I don't like is this two-horned argument, what with the status-quo conservative on one end and the radical social anarchists on the other. There's always another choice.

Section 8 · Oct 3, 2003, 11:09 am

Oh well, I'm not moving from my perch high up here on the left. You can be the "other choice" Rebel, but I'm sticking with my ideas.

Fallen Angel · Oct 3, 2003, 11:04 pm

I'm not from either Britain or NZ, I am an Aussie, I am definetly not a Socialist either G. Adams, the SE Asians arent really the problem here, except for the drug gangs like Yazuka(Japanese stand over gang here, )and the Triads, smaller vietnamese gangs such as 5T usually prey on their own people here, and run alot of money scams, Asian prostitutian raquets, and of course the Heroin and Cocaine markets.
The real problem here is the Middle Eastern cultures, that have a very high birth rate, are very macho ( unless they get caught rarely in a one on one confrontation)
and have alot of gangs who operate as standover men for the triads, they are also starting to wreck alot of havoc, with Caucasian people here, who are barred from entering various parts of western Sydney, that now resemble Beruit.

RebelWithanAK · Oct 3, 2003, 11:07 pm

FA, I obviously mistook someone else's bio for your own, but I was referring to Howard's keeping SE Asian refugees in prison camps in the past two years. I'm not going to touch your "middle eastern gangs" nor your "yakuza and triads" shit with a ten foot pole because I honestly think you don't have the first god damned clue what you're talking about.

Fallen Angel · Oct 3, 2003, 11:37 pm

Quote:

Originally posted by RebelWithanAK@10-03-2003 11:07 PM
FA, I obviously mistook someone else's bio for your own, but I was referring to Howard's keeping SE Asian refugees in prison camps in the past two years. I'm not going to touch your "middle eastern gangs" nor your "yakuza and triads" shit with a ten foot pole because I honestly think you don't have the first god damned clue what you're talking about.

I have talked to members of some of these gangs, I have seen the machete fights they have in the backstreets of our inner suburbs, I was a neighbour to a Vietnamese guy who wanted to leave the gang, he made the mistake of telling this to a gang member, he was then bashed out of the 5T with baseball bats by eight members of his gang, he was also stabbed twice through the left calf of his leg with a samurai sword, he now hobbles.
He spent three weeks in St. Vincents hospital recovering.
The Yazuka run the Japanese tourist guide raquet in Queensland mostly, and other Australian citys.
Gangs of Middle Easterners usually around twenty, are causing trouble where ever they go in the city, and call on their mobile phones more numbers in cars, if they need them, some recent pack rapes of Caucasian women were dealt with, the offenders given in some cases more than fifty years.
Please. I live here not you, you are the one who does'nt have a God damned clue what they are talking about sorry.

Sep 30, 2003, 01:33 am	#2 (permalink) (top)
RebelWithanAK Igneous Magma Location: New York City Posts: 739	I'd agree with you, but your post is half newspeak / half repetition, states nothing but your own convictions, and will serve already as a poor start to a poor debate. I'm being harsh, I know, but it just bothers me. . . . whenever any government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute a new government, laying its foundations on such principles and organizing its powers in such forms as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.

Oct 3, 2003, 01:34 am	#13 (permalink) (top)
RebelWithanAK Igneous Magma Location: New York City Posts: 739	There were Chinese, FA, before there was China. The nation does not define the people - the people define the nation. The problem with nationalism is that the nation is too large to have a cohesive body of people to define it. I, as a New Yorker, find myself more in tune with people from London, Paris and Hong Kong than I do people from Cleveland, St Louis and Detroit. Why, then, should I fight to defend people in Cleveland against people in Paris? With immigrants, most of our economy is based on immigrant labor. Legitimizing it helped smooth relations (and living standards) for everybody - and this is shown again and again, what with the Germans, the Irish, the Chinese... then again, you bumblefucks from Cleveland wouldn't know that, would you? . . . whenever any government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute a new government, laying its foundations on such principles and organizing its powers in such forms as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.

Oct 3, 2003, 10:57 am	#16 (permalink) (top)
RebelWithanAK Igneous Magma Location: New York City Posts: 739	I know you're not from Cleveland, I was just using it as an example. You're from New Zealand, and while I'm sure they have the same trepidation about taking SE Asian refugees in as Howard's Australia, I can really only go on about my stretch of the earth. One thing I don't like is this two-horned argument, what with the status-quo conservative on one end and the radical social anarchists on the other. There's always another choice. . . . whenever any government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute a new government, laying its foundations on such principles and organizing its powers in such forms as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.

Oct 3, 2003, 11:07 pm	#19 (permalink) (top)
RebelWithanAK Igneous Magma Location: New York City Posts: 739	FA, I obviously mistook someone else's bio for your own, but I was referring to Howard's keeping SE Asian refugees in prison camps in the past two years. I'm not going to touch your "middle eastern gangs" nor your "yakuza and triads" shit with a ten foot pole because I honestly think you don't have the first god damned clue what you're talking about. . . . whenever any government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute a new government, laying its foundations on such principles and organizing its powers in such forms as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.

Sep 30, 2003, 01:18 am	#1 (permalink) (top)
Section 8 Hot Lava Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 782	In Arizona, where I live, many people are infuriated at the amount of immigrants pouring over our borders daily. I just sit and laugh. These xenophobic people have no sense. It takes about 10 years to become a US citizen, those xenophobic people who oppose it are saying that immigrants should wait 10 years while their family is starving to come over here. Many immigrants are dying in the desert, and people complain about the fact that we're placing water in the desert. Why? They say that the tax payers money shouldn't go towards saving lives. Funding wars to kill people is a much better idea. I'm tired of xenophobic assholes trying to destroy the last hope of poor immigrants who just want to support their family, and would like to eat at least three meals a day. Of course, saving lives isn't one of the top priorities these days. Have Fun Shalom

Sep 30, 2003, 07:58 am	#3 (permalink) (top)
Fallen Angel Igneous Magma Location: Sydney,Australia. Posts: 333	Why don't you get angry at the Mexican government instead, maybe they are the reason these people are starving etc they could bring in anything with them Section 8, drugs, disease, look past your big buzz word Xenophobia and start thinking commonsense.

Sep 30, 2003, 10:10 am	#4 (permalink) (top)
Section 8 Hot Lava Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 782	Rebel, looking over my post it was pretty crappy, oh well I guess I'll do ok. FA, are you saying that since people are dying it's their government's fault, so we should just get angry at the government, which probably won't do anything, instead of taking direct action to help the poor dying immigrants. Have Fun Shalom

Oct 1, 2003, 11:19 am	#6 (permalink) (top)
fedfem Igneous Magma Location: Northeastern, USA Posts: 606	It doesn't matter what country a person is born in. They are fellow human beings and deserve compassion and respect.

Oct 2, 2003, 12:27 am	#8 (permalink) (top)
Section 8 Hot Lava Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 782	FA, I thought you were pro-war. You could argue that it was the other contries job to fix whatever was wrong. Yet you support invading Iraq. See how that backfires. People aren't expendable, government is Shalom

Oct 2, 2003, 03:45 am	#9 (permalink) (top)
Fallen Angel Igneous Magma Location: Sydney,Australia. Posts: 333	I'm not pro war, I'm not a pacifist who wants to sacrifice anything for peace either. Section 8 if you want to hand your country over to people who just walk or catch a boat in, then why not encourage for all your borders to be removed from the world map, you don't seem to grasp how important your national security is. It's going to be a mexican way of life soon G. Adams for a good part of your country, would you prefer that? Do you think when they out populate you they will be just as leniant towards yourself Section 8, is that what your hoping for?

Oct 2, 2003, 10:27 am	#10 (permalink) (top)
Section 8 Hot Lava Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 782	If all borders were removed and the flags were burned, then yes I would feel much better. Right now though, all I'm saying is to make it alot easier to achieve citizenship. Shalom

Oct 3, 2003, 12:28 am	#12 (permalink) (top)
Section 8 Hot Lava Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 782	Did I say the abolition of culture? No. I said to stop nationalism, because all it does is create wars and inequality.

Oct 3, 2003, 06:32 am	#14 (permalink) (top)
Fallen Angel Igneous Magma Location: Sydney,Australia. Posts: 333	Bumble fuck, have to use that one.. I'm not from Cleveland either, look, lets just agree to disagree OK, you say a nations borders are no longer relevant in this day and age, I say we still need them. You say Tomata, I say Tomato.

Oct 3, 2003, 11:09 am	#17 (permalink) (top)
Section 8 Hot Lava Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 782	Oh well, I'm not moving from my perch high up here on the left. You can be the "other choice" Rebel, but I'm sticking with my ideas.

Oct 3, 2003, 11:04 pm	#18 (permalink) (top)
Fallen Angel Igneous Magma Location: Sydney,Australia. Posts: 333	I'm not from either Britain or NZ, I am an Aussie, I am definetly not a Socialist either G. Adams, the SE Asians arent really the problem here, except for the drug gangs like Yazuka(Japanese stand over gang here, )and the Triads, smaller vietnamese gangs such as 5T usually prey on their own people here, and run alot of money scams, Asian prostitutian raquets, and of course the Heroin and Cocaine markets. The real problem here is the Middle Eastern cultures, that have a very high birth rate, are very macho ( unless they get caught rarely in a one on one confrontation) and have alot of gangs who operate as standover men for the triads, they are also starting to wreck alot of havoc, with Caucasian people here, who are barred from entering various parts of western Sydney, that now resemble Beruit.