School Shootings

[Athena]

A young man at the high school my daughter attended, killed his parents and the next day he went to school and shoot several students. Pretty much the same as Columbine and I will blame the school. The school was terrible. It was sort of a rich kids school and it wasn't terrible accedemically, but the staff was excessively impersonally and authoritarian and careless with students feelings. In fact the mayor of the town will not send his own children to the public schools. He knows they are bad, but is unmoved to do anything about the problem.

On other threads the importance of liberal education has been mentioned. We do need to prepare our young for life in every way. Thinking of them as products to prepare for industry is wrong. Attitudes about work and what people are paid, have been pretty bad in these forms, with people too often being very callous about others. The problem is not just in our schools. We have social problems, and public education is the best way to reduce them. Number one, schools must be personal. Each student must feel like a valued human being, and those who are mean must learn this is socially unacceptable.

1, We respect everyone because we are respectful people.
2. We act with dignity and protect the dignity of others.
3. We act with integrity.

[Allas]

Blame? Ugh. What a primitive concept.

Bottom line is, if we assume that anyone but the 2 in question are to blame, then we automatically devoid the two gunmen of their free will, and subsequently also their responsability.

[Morgan_Freeman]

Quote by: Allas Blame? Ugh. What a primitive concept. Bottom line is, if we assume that anyone but the 2 in question are to blame, then we automatically devoid the two gunmen of their free will, and subsequently also their responsability.

How do you figure? If you attack me on the street and I punch you in response, who's fault is it that you got punched? It's yours, right? How is it "primitive" for me to blame you?

Similary, I wouldn't be suprised if some of the people who got shot instigated their own deaths in some way.

[Allas]

Quote by: Morgan_Freeman How do you figure? If you attack me on the street and I punch you in response, who's fault is it that you got punched? It's yours, right? How is it "primitive" for me to blame you? Similary, I wouldn't be suprised if some of the people who got shot instigated their own deaths in some way.

I can see where you are going with this, which then devides it up into 2 categories of blame. Direct and indirect "fault". In the example you mentioned, it would indirectly be my fault as i provoked the attacked, but directly your fault for actually throwing the punch.
Dont get me wrong, i dont mean to suggest you arent right to defend yourself, certainly you should. I mean to suggest, that despite being provoked, you are, or should be, in control of your own actions.

By primitive i meant, primitive in the sense that sitting here and trying to asign blame, rather than trying to asses what went wrong and how to prevent such a situation from happening again.

Everyone gets bullied or what not at some point in time. Are you telling me a bullet to the face is a justifiable respone? I doubt it.

[Morgan_Freeman]

Quote by: Allas Everyone gets bullied or what not at some point in time. Are you telling me a bullet to the face is a justifiable respone? I doubt it.

If you are trapped in a shithole public school with a bunch of people who harass you daily, shooting a few of them sounds like a "justifiable" self-defense measure to me. I'm sure there are many kids who feel that way. The only reason they don't do it is because they're too afraid or they don't want to go to jail.

You want solutions? Here's mine: end compulsory public schooling.

[Athena]

We should be using the word cause, instead of blame.

Nature designed human beings to react to their environment. Human beings may or may not be aware of why they react as they do. We all have a subconscious, and we not know is in our subconscious. Our subconscious is formed from the time we are conscieved, until about age 8. This made more complex by family and social factors and also brain chemicals. Blunting stating what should be so for any human being, is proposterous. We are diverse creatures, designed to respond.

We can not control individual responses, but can effect that to which they are responding.
Every school has its own culture. A few human beings have learned how to effect school cultures in dramatic ways. If more than a few human beings understand this, there would be no school shootings. As all human beings, except those suffereing severe organic brain dyfunction, are responding to their environment.

Since 1948 we have educated for the "Lord of the Flies" consciousness. We see this consciousness frequently in these forums. We could call this survival of the fittest syndrome, except what enabled human beings to survive is cooperation, not competition.
Our media catars to our lowest level of carnal lust. We have Society and Rights and have forgotten duty. We have created the social conditions for violent reactions. We don't even know there is another choice. Matriarchies manifest a very different kind of culture, where people behave differently, but we are not aware of this possibility, and therefore, mistake
our national aggressiveness for normal human nature and even value some of the most crude behaviors. This begins with tolerating insults and put downs, stripping people of their human dignity, and instead of faulting this bad behavior, telling the victim of it, that s/he needs a tougher skin. Allegators need tough skins. Human beings need a concept of good manners. Returning to education of good manners and what they have to do with liberty, would resolve many of social problems.

[Athena]

PS, at Thurston where a student killed his parents and students, the principle had terrible communication and social skills. He knew the boy was in trouble, and that the boys parents were respected teachers. Had he been personal with the boy, he could have prevented the shootings. But his blindness to the needs of this child, and complete impersonalness, therefore, mismanagement of this troubled children, pushed him over the edge.

The community had several meetings about how to prevent this problem in the future and the meetings were a sick joke. Rooms crammed full of concerned citizens, but each was given only 3 minutes make a statement about a very complex problem, so nothing meaningful could be accomplished, and no dared to fault the principle, because of this blind heirarchy of experts and specialist we have been taught is superior. Instead of arranging for these very concerned citizens to have a regular meeting place and the time to come up with solutions, they were cut off. Citizens lost control of the schools long ago, and those in control, and working to keep it. The whole of our society has been fractured into specialties, and the social problems are now something for the experts and specialist to manage, not what we as a people work together to manage. We no longer have democracy, and some insist we never were one.

Our opionion of our intelligence is highly over rated.