Why I ask, are fathers so... powerless?

[Mr.Vicchio]

I ask this in light of the recent protest on the mall by the feminist for abortion rights.

They demand "a womans right to choose!" Transaltion, Fathers don't matter...

Why, seriously, are fathers given ZERO say in this matter. That clump of cells the woman wants to kill off/abort is also the biological coupling of the fathers genetic material. Shouldn't the biologicial father be able to have a say, to sue to force the birth of the child then be given full and unfettered rights to child instead of it being killed off?

Granted, its not his body, and I ackowledge that, but why should the father be denied the right to the childs life, the mother wanting the abortion has stated flatly by seeking said abortion that she wants nothing to do with the prospective child, why cant the father demand the child?


I think its... completely insane to argue that a man has NO say in an abortion. Fathers have rights too damn it!

[Mia]

I agree. A woman can choose to have a baby that the father would like her to abort. She can force him to pay child support for 18 years.

Why can't he make her carry his baby for 9 months?

That's a double standard.

[Gorgo]

The more logical question there would be why can't he make her make him carry the baby for 9 months. If he wants to carry it, then it would be his right to choose.

[Mr.Vicchio]

Originally posted by Gorgo, The more logical question there would be why can't he make her make him carry the baby for 9 months. If he wants to carry it, then it would be his right to choose.

No offense, but since such is medically and physically immpossible, that entire line of thought is moot point, useless to the deabt,e and ignorant.

Sorry but what you are asking is not possible, so why use something not possible as a debate point?

[Gorgo]

What I am saying is that it is her body. She was trying to make a logical point based on something that wasn't logical. If she could force him to carry the baby, then it would make sense to say he could force the pregnancy to continue. He doesn't, so why should he be able to force the pregnancy to continue.

Originally posted by Mr.Vicchio, Sorry but what you are asking is not possible, so why use something not possible as a debate point?

[Gorgo]

Having said that, if they guy wants an abortion and she wants the baby, then I'd say it's her baby. Let her take care of it and if the guy doesn't want to be involved, then that's her problem.

It's not, really, though. It's society's problem at that point, isn't it? Because we tend to take responsibility for youngsters.

Hmmmm.

[prettyredhead]

Fathers have certain rights to a born child. A fetus is not a child yet and nothing you say can prove otherwise. Why dont you focus on the millions of already born, fatherless kids>?

[Capt Lee]

Both parties knew the possible consequences and the natural roles of each party of thier sexual union. This whole argument is void of personal responsibility. To me it's an issue to create more division in the US and your mind off more important things. Before our culture was destroyed, and replaced by a subculture and the church has been minimalized and the enabler the government totally ignores personal responsibility so they can save us from ourselves.

Capt Lee

[white rice]

It's the nature of man. Deadbeats can run off and ditch the woman almost immediately. No amount of "child support" can replace another parent in the house. If we were animals, mothers usually stick with their babies while the father might or might not leave them on their own. The depressing number of deadbeats dads in America establishes that link while leaving the single parent mother to support a family on her own.

I guess when fathers establish their role universally and become real men, then could there be an honest debate for a selfish woman who doesn't want to go through a "9 month hassle". Until then, every woman gets the benefit of the doubt.

It's unfortunate really.

[Mr.Vicchio]

I see the feminist indoctrination has spread. Yes its "her body" so its okay for her to dent the man the right the child he helped create. Cause of course, its her body. I see that men are still evil pigs to many.

Sigh...

[GreatWyrm of Babylon]

Feminism hel,it is rational thought. If the woman does not want the baby you put in her, what makes you think she is willing to keep you around long enough to raise it? And if you do not want to stick around to raise it, what right is it of yours?

[Mia]

Originally posted by GreatWyrm of Babylon, Feminism hel,it is rational thought. If the woman does not want the baby you put in her, what makes you think she is willing to keep you around long enough to raise it? And if you do not want to stick around to raise it, what right is it of yours?

What if she doesn't want him or the baby but he does want to raise the baby himself?

[VXerick]

Originally posted by Mia,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mia,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-GreatWyrm of Babylon, Feminism hel,it is rational thought. If the woman does not want the baby you put in her, what makes you think she is willing to keep you around long enough to raise it? And if you do not want to stick around to raise it, what right is it of yours?

What if she doesn't want him or the baby but he does want to raise the baby himself?[/b][/quote] There's plenty of fish in the ocean. I think if people were really responsible, as someone else noted elsewhere in this thread, they would consider the aftermath of their actions beforehand.

If a woman is that uncaring, why would a man even want her? Unless she's the only woman around for miles. Besides men shouldn't expect her to be using birth control (although she should be, but some women are out to trap men, don't you know?). They should at least use a condom, which may not prevent all pregnancies, but a goodly number of them.

[Mia]

OK - two people who are starting to see it going nowhere but still trying to keep it together have protected sex and break up for good a couple of weeks later. The protection, which is never 100% accurate, failed them, and the woman is now pregnant.

She wants nothing to do with father or child. She wants to abort it and go to Mexico.

The father wants her to have the baby and he and his family want to raise it and she can stay and raise it with him or she can go to Mexica - whatever she wants.

He's asking her for 9 months of her life to let his baby grow and live.

Why is that unreasonable?

We say fathers knew what might be involved with sex and make them support babies financially whether they want to or not. Why isn't the same standard held to women in these kinds of cases?

[GreatWyrm of Babylon]

Mia
Because it gives one person power over anouter, which in my experience is the closest thing to evil there is. Can you imagine a rapist found 'not gulty' by some technicality, like not being read his rights, forcing the poor girl to have his child. :(

[Mr.Vicchio]

Very good question Mia.

If I as a man, get a woman pregnant, and she wants to keep the child, I am paying child support plus for 18 years. If she doesn't want it and I don't I am ass out again.

Thusly the whole situation is a lose - lose situation.

Thats not fair reguardless HOW you look at the situation.

[white rice]

Originally posted by Mr.Vicchio,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mr.Vicchio,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Very good question Mia. If I as a man, get a woman pregnant, and she wants to keep the child, I am paying child support plus for 18 years. [/b]

Actually, many men have forced their girlfriends to get an abortion. If all else fails, you could skip town as enough men have done. Plus, you have the choice to change your mind and try to be a father again. The ball is in your court.

There's many unpredictable factors in raising a child. During pregnancy, she might have some freak miscarriage ruining your chance of wanting the lil bastard. Or worse off, the mother is consistently irresponsible and does every vice imaginable like smoking, drinking, and shooting drugs for her pleasure at the expense of the baby. Would you still want your baby if it were deformed or mentally retarded? A pragmatist would think, better luck next time....

Originally posted by Mr.Vicchio,@ If she doesn't want it and I don't I am ass out again.

Do you mean if you do want it? If you do want a child, consider that your son would be better served by having a mother and a father consistently in its life, and if she's unwilling to play that role, then you would be better served finding a woman who shares the same interests.

<!--QuoteBegin-Mr.Vicchio,

Thats not fair reguardless HOW you look at the situation.[/quote]

The only lose-lose is for the baby. It's mostly unfair for the baby. The only thing compelling you to do the "right thing" if she keeps it is civil law, and that's easily solved by running town.

[Mr.Vicchio]

Ment I want too, sorry. This subject fires me up as a father of two children, the thoguht of abortion except in extremem cases.. is horrendous to me.

[Suburbanite]

Originally posted by Mia, I agree.  A woman can choose to have a baby that the father would like her to abort.  She can force him to pay child support for 18 years. Why can't he make her carry his baby for 9 months? That's a double standard.

On a legal level the choice to remove a child is not the fathers because he isn't the one having it. However, on a personal level of course he has a say, if he gets her to change her mind, takes the child himself, whatever.

[Jet]

What GreatWyrm said. Fetuses are part of the body of the woman; the woman nurtures them and bears them, with the man just having helped a little along. I mean, you won't claim rights over something just because you spat on it and it bears your DNA, will you?