Where Your Cheeseburger came from

[Young]

A local Rancher requested my help in taking some of his caddle to market the other day. As his old Chevy creeped up the hill, the Caddle looked as if they knew what was about to happen. They were all rounded up into a coral and three of them had to be Deballed in order to control the population of the heard. Then all but the most eligable were let out of the corral, this included calfs, heffers, and large bulls. Of the Nine remaining, Five were in real trouble. I watched as this Rancher began to make up his mind on which four to keep. Then the chosen Five were loaded up and we drove them to the sale. Beef currently brings around $1 per pound. The caddle were run through the auction, and buyers were found for each of the Five. Another Rancher could have decided to make the Purchase and given a stay of execution, I wondered if the Cow knew that one man bidding on him intended to run him through the slaughter house, while the other Man intended to temporarily save his life. All Five were unlucky, the highest bidder was the Slaughter house on this day. All of this must take place in order for Jack to get the Meat for your super Jack with Cheese. Did You know that the Rancher named what would become your cheeseburger...Betsy? You may have ate Betsy for Lunch, and I will spare you the details of what happens at the Slaughter house, but i suppose you can Imagine...it's not pretty.

Young

[The Black Flag]

I forget the name of the comedian that said this, but he sums up why I, and i think a lot of other people, eat meat: "Meat tastes like murder, and murder tastes pretty god-damned good!"

[SVMc]

Dennis Leary No Cure for Cancer

[Helter]

That's just an appeal to emotion, which is a logical fallacy. (assuming that this is an anti-meat argument)

[Suburbanite]

Injecting a little humor is good for a thread I think, takes the edge off the otherwise important conflict.

[Gorgo]

There may be some political reason not to eat meat, but I've yet to see a decent appeal to vegetarianism based on the idea that animals are more like humans than plants, and we name the animals, so therefore it's better to kill plants to eat than animals.

I don't even kill bugs in my house. I carry spiders out. I don't hunt. I don't garden. I don't fish because I don't want to kill the bait for sport.

However, if I was hungry, much as I love them, I'd probably kill my dear sweet mutts to survive.

[Mia]

I've seen a lot of West Wing fans - did anyone see the one where he pardons a turkey at Thanksgiving? CJ was hysterical!

[white rice]

The underlying principle to eating meat is that people find a higher value in their food than the welfare of some animal you've never seen before and its abstract quantity of emotion and life.

Mad Cow or an E. Coli epidemic would probably scare more people out of not eating beef than emotional reasoning.

I'm aware of what happens inside a slaughterhouse, but I still eat meat because its good. Those for animal rights need a better argument.

[The Black Flag]

I'm all for animal rights. My friends have come close to getting there ass torn into trying to hurt an animal in front of me, squerral, rabbit, dog, cat, doesn't matter, unless it's being killed for food, it shouldn't be harmed...I have a heart. I hate to see things suffer, but sometimes..they taste too good.

[GreatWyrm of Babylon]

Young
I have also witnessed the process, so what? But, I must point out that the plural for the genus Bos, is cattle not caddle.


Helter
An emotional appeal is not a logical fallicy, debate even has a name for it, it is called pathos.

[Helter]

Originally posted by GreatWyrm of Babylon, Young Helter An emotional appeal is not a logical fallicy, debate even has a name for it, it is called pathos.

Maybe you should peruse the link in your own signature. Just because debate has a name for it doesn't mean that it isn't a logical fallacy.

edited to add:
In particular, take a look at this particular quote:
"This fallacy is actually an extremely effective persuasive device. As many people have argued, peoples' emotions often carry much more force than their reason. Logical argumentation is often difficult and time consuming and it rarely has the power to spurn people to action. It is the power of this fallacy that explains its great popularity and wide usage. However, it is still a fallacy."

[GreatWyrm of Babylon]

Helter
It was the first post and not presented as a factual retort. Therefore, it is the defining post on the theme of the debate. It is only a logical fallicy if the debate is taking place in any mode other than pathos, and being the lead it defines the debate mode as pathos.

Placed anywhere else, I would concur, but not as the lead post.

[Helter]

Originally posted by GreatWyrm of Babylon, Helter It was the first post and not presented as a factual retort. Therefore, it is the defining post on the theme of the debate. It is only a logical fallicy if the debate is taking place in any mode other than pathos, and being the lead it defines the debate mode as pathos. Placed anywhere else, I would concur, but not as the lead post.

It doesn't matter Wyrm... A logical fallacy is a logical fallacy, no matter where or when it occurs. If you want to operate under a particular set of debate rules, they need to be specified prior to the establishment of the debate, but even then, the rules of the debate do not supercede logic.
As it is, the only saving grace of this post would be if the original poster maintained that it was not actually meant as an anti-meat argument, and was only meant to establish dialogue (which you might notice, I covered as a possibility in my post).

[GreatWyrm of Babylon]

Well, I have to admit, debating with you was more fun than debating what was presented by that first post.

EDIT: But if I keep on the debate site tonight I need to drag out my normal sized keyboard. The laptop is convienent but not really meant for typing.

[Mr.Vicchio]

I hunt, I fish, I eat meat regularly, I even eat meat from places where I named the cows and then killed them myself. Cows are food and damned good food.

Bambi makes great sausage and jerky, moose steaks... MMMMMMM yummy. Fish are fish, great to eat, good in my aquirium to look upon. Ostrich, you haven't lived till you've had a good Ostrich steak. Chickens? Nasty birds, dumb as hell, great fried baked or BBQ'd.

Thats my stance. Little mean perhaps to some, but Food is food, and its better fresh. Like that time my cousin and I took 5 ducks one day camping, and roasted them for breakfast, WOW talk about great food. Oh and dove, love a good dove gumbo.

Am I a cruel man who hates animals? No. Just know my place in the world.

[Catch 22]

I really don't care whether I kill an animal for food or not. I’ve been raised a fan of meat and it's many forms and I’m not about to give that up. There just seems to be no real good reason for me not to.

[Young]

I wanted to see where people stood. The point of this was to say that a lot of people hate how it gets to them, but thats how it has to be. I Hunt, I've skinned a Coyote, I've struggled with a shot Bear & stabbed it, but I also swerve to miss animals in the road for more than just not to damage my car. I still like the taste of Meat, but I don't feel good about eating it. I feel that I hunger for something better, and i don't see my alternative as being Vegetarian. I must admit Potatoes, green beans, flavored rice, and cornbread are wonderful stapples that Your body enjoys...Putting a meat with these is common, but for Your health may not be best.


Young

[Lava]

>I wanted to see where people stood. The point of this was to say that a lot of people hate how it gets to them, but thats how it has to be.

thats not true, you have a choice, each of us has. In times past eating other animals was necessary, but today it is not. It is an additional expense than is entirely a choice of taste. Nothing more.

If you think a taste choice is a sound moral defence for what happens to those who end up on your plate, I dont know, but call me unconvinced.


> I Hunt, I've skinned a Coyote, I've struggled with a shot Bear & stabbed it, but I also swerve to miss animals in the road for more than just not to damage my car. I still like the taste of Meat, but I don't feel good about eating it. I feel that I hunger for something better, and i don't see my alternative as being Vegetarian.

there are many options. Full vegetarianism is just one of them.

> I must admit Potatoes, green beans, flavored rice, and cornbread are wonderful stapples that Your body enjoys...Putting a meat with these is common, but for Your health may not be best.

Meat eating causes heart disease, ie many deaths every year.
Meat is also the prime source of food poisoning

Its not the choice I make. I just dont see how it could be good for me, either physically nor for my self respect. Does it trouble you too?


Regards, Lava!

[PatrickHenry]

My buddy, Sione, went fishing yesterday. This morning he gave me half of a mahimahi. Man, for breakfast I cooked that and it hit the spot. Good clean fish from the clear Pacific Ocean. Health food. I feel good now...

[white rice]

Originally posted by Young, I wanted to see where people stood. The point of this was to say that a lot of people hate how it gets to them, but thats how it has to be. I Hunt, I've skinned a Coyote, I've struggled with a shot Bear & stabbed it, but I also swerve to miss animals in the road for more than just not to damage my car. I still like the taste of Meat, but I don't feel good about eating it. I feel that I hunger for something better, and i don't see my alternative as being Vegetarian. I must admit Potatoes, green beans, flavored rice, and cornbread are wonderful stapples that Your body enjoys...Putting a meat with these is common, but for Your health may not be best. Young

Do you still hunt? Animals hunt for survival. Humans hunt for sport.

There are some good vegetarian alternatives. You just have to do some research and open your mind up to new ethnic tastes. It can be delicious, but it doesn't replace the taste of meat. Nothing does, and if you decide to make that choice then that'll be a big factor. Also, the better tasting variety will cost more.