America's New Bigots

[Aeris]

Quote by: Obese Excessive fat in body tissues. Obesity increases the risk for many health conditions, including diabetes, heart disease, and stroke. The National Heart, Lung, and Blood Institute defines overweight as having a body mass index (BMI) of 25 to 29.9 and obese as having a BMI of 30 or greater.

29% of American children are obese. 80% of the population over 25 is overweight. 3 million americans are morbidly obese. This means that they're 50-100% or 100 pounds above their ideal body weight.

Of those who are obese: 80% of type II diabetes related to obesity, 70% of Cardiovascular disease related to obesity, 42% breast and colon cancer diagnosed among obese individuals, 30% of gall bladder surgery related to obesity, and 26% of obese people having high blood pressure.

--------------------

How?

How did we let outselves sink to this level? Its not hard to stay in shape - even I do it and I'm a student with a full time job!

Its actually become a worldwide "epidemic".

Epidemic. How pathetic.

I can understand using the word in sentences like "Obesity has reached epidemic proportions". But we're not anymore - we're comparing obesity to the influenza outbreak in the early 1900s. I actually heard someone once compare it to the Black Plague. Obesity has hardly just "appeared" - its been a growing problem for years. That makes it all the worse because we had a chance to stop it, slow its growth or reverse it all together.

Someone once called me "weightist". You know, like a racist or a sexist. I apparently discriminate against people of weight.

Do me a favor - look up sexist on google. I got 12,200,000 results. How many did you get? There are wikipedia articles, papers published by professors and grad students, and jokes all on the first page. Look up racist. 50,500,000 results. Similar pages too. Now look up weightist. 1,330 results. The first is a Dashboard Confessional forum. Another is a blog.

The first time I was referred to as "weightist" I was shocked. I'm fairly politically correct and thusly I was horrified. So I rushed to my computer to look it up on an online dictionary.

Quote by: Dictionary.com No entry found for weightist. Did you mean weightiest? Suggestions: weightiest rightist weights weight's weights...

Maybe Merriam-Webster...

Quote by: www.m-w.com The word you've entered isn't in the dictionary. Click on a spelling suggestion below or try again using the search box to the right. Suggestions for weightist: 1. weightiest 2. whitest 3. wittiest 4. wettest 5. wet suit 6. whatsit 7. whiteouts 8. wait-list 9. weediest 10. watusi

Well maybe wikipedia in all of its user defined glory will have something...

Quote by: Wikipedia No results found. For help on searching, please see Wikipedia:Searching.

Oh noes! Shock and horror!

What's my point besides the fact that no one uses this word? Well first off is that I love telling that story. Second is that I'm not weightist. No one really is.

Amy, my morbidly obese roommate who found me to be such a intolerant bigot, was more weightist than me. I didn't discriminate against her because of her weight. But she did. She was suicidal she hated her weight that much. Thing was that it was a fixable problem and she never got off her ass to do anything about it. I'd sit down at the lunch table with one plate of food and a couple glasses of milk. She'd sit down with three plates drenched in condiments with pop. She hated that I thought the bus company and the airlines were right in charging her for two seats instead of building planes and buses to fit her. She does take up two seats.

We need to start instilling the values of eating right in school kids. Start 'em young. And none of this "If you binge on celery stick instead of cookies you won't gain as much weight ^^" crap. None of this "Nothing tastes as good as being skinny" shit. No, we just need to teach them moderation. Eat the pizza every once in a while - not every damn day - and you'll be fine!

I think everybody's weightist - I don't want to be fat. But then, I don't discriminate against someone because of their BMI. On the other hand, I should have the right to get pissed at the fatass next to me on the bus who's taking up half of my seat too without being told that I'm discriminating. I paid a good $2.75 for it and I should be able sit in all of it.

[Fonceai]

You're a lot nice than I am. I'm a weightist.

It is, partly, because I have a spare tire caused by 6 years of stress and excessive cortisol in my system. My fat is of a specific type and a doctor basically said that the faster I want to get rid of it, the less time I spend with my family and the more money I spend. Or there is lyposuction.

But I still take time to get some kind of exercise and physical activity.

I see fat people all the time down here. People who have parked behind a desk for 25 years and don't have to appear in front of people.

I respect the difference between mothers who have gained some weight and actual fat people.

And the fat people disgust me. I don't understand how they can let themselves go.

Yet I see them waddle onto the bus, incapable of handling the 5 steps. They sit in a seat, taking up enough of the second seat to make it unusable. Then they complain about not feeling good, or it's hot out, or any number of things where you could say to them, "Lose some weight and you'll feel better."

The sad, sad fact is that walking for 30 minutes a day makes a world of difference. How many of these people go home and are too busy to take a 30 minute walk. I come home and spend time with my daughter and wife, and we still take 30-45 minutes to go swimming or go for a walk.

These fat people need to give up ONE SHOW A NIGHT in order to make steps towards losing weight. That, and the difficult act of eating less at each meal. That's the hard part, it still is for me, but I drink a lot more water now. It's a simple matter of willpower.

There is no addiction on this planet that you can't quit if you do it the right way. I have no sympathy for their medical problems, and I wish to Christ that my health insurance premium payments weren't going to some fat-ass' blood pressure medication.

Personally, I'd rather see people with voluntary and detrimental lifestyle choices pay triple the premiums, or be denied altogether. These people are fat because they can get away with it, because no one is establishing consequences for obesity. Instead, we try to find better medical solutions for the symptoms instead of taking the donut out of their mouths.

[Fonceai]

damn double post - duplicated Deleted

[brien]

Quote by: Aeris 29% of American children are obese. 80% of the population over 25 is overweight. 3 million americans are morbidly obese. This means that they're 50-100% or 100 pounds above their ideal body weight. Of those who are obese: 80% of type II diabetes related to obesity, 70% of Cardiovascular disease related to obesity, 42% breast and colon cancer diagnosed among obese individuals, 30% of gall bladder surgery related to obesity, and 26% of obese people having high blood pressure. -------------------- How? How did we let outselves sink to this level? Its not hard to stay in shape - even I do it and I'm a student with a full time job! Its actually become a worldwide "epidemic". Epidemic. How pathetic. I can understand using the word in sentences like "Obesity has reached epidemic proportions". But we're not anymore - we're comparing obesity to the influenza outbreak in the early 1900s. I actually heard someone once compare it to the Black Plague. Obesity has hardly just "appeared" - its been a growing problem for years. That makes it all the worse because we had a chance to stop it, slow its growth or reverse it all together. Someone once called me "weightist". You know, like a racist or a sexist. I apparently discriminate against people of weight. Do me a favor - look up sexist on google. I got 12,200,000 results. How many did you get? There are wikipedia articles, papers published by professors and grad students, and jokes all on the first page. Look up racist. 50,500,000 results. Similar pages too. Now look up weightist. 1,330 results. The first is a Dashboard Confessional forum. Another is a blog. The first time I was referred to as "weightist" I was shocked. I'm fairly politically correct and thusly I was horrified. So I rushed to my computer to look it up on an online dictionary. Maybe Merriam-Webster... Well maybe wikipedia in all of its user defined glory will have something... Oh noes! Shock and horror! What's my point besides the fact that no one uses this word? Well first off is that I love telling that story. Second is that I'm not weightist. No one really is. Amy, my morbidly obese roommate who found me to be such a intolerant bigot, was more weightist than me. I didn't discriminate against her because of her weight. But she did. She was suicidal she hated her weight that much. Thing was that it was a fixable problem and she never got off her ass to do anything about it. I'd sit down at the lunch table with one plate of food and a couple glasses of milk. She'd sit down with three plates drenched in condiments with pop. She hated that I thought the bus company and the airlines were right in charging her for two seats instead of building planes and buses to fit her. She does take up two seats. We need to start instilling the values of eating right in school kids. Start 'em young. And none of this "If you binge on celery stick instead of cookies you won't gain as much weight ^^" crap. None of this "Nothing tastes as good as being skinny" shit. No, we just need to teach them moderation. Eat the pizza every once in a while - not every damn day - and you'll be fine! I think everybody's weightist - I don't want to be fat. But then, I don't discriminate against someone because of their BMI. On the other hand, I should have the right to get pissed at the fatass next to me on the bus who's taking up half of my seat too without being told that I'm discriminating. I paid a good $2.75 for it and I should be able sit in all of it.

Seems to me this is just another P C issue launched by an intolerant elitist media and picked up on by those who support them. I don't believe anyone wants to be fat and overweight. It happens over a period of time and needs to be corrected over a period of time. The first step, as in alcoholism, is the person has to want to change their weight. Second step is to do something about it. The last thing obese people need is a media coming down on them as outcasts and freaks to be made fun of in snide televised pieces that attribute their weight problem to personal sloveness and poor eating habits. Even though this may be the case, what obese people require is support and understanding, not derision and condescension.

It seems to me that we are more tolerant and compassionate about overweight dogs and cats than we are about overweight human beings. I am not giving overweight people a free pass, but rather suggesting we promote understanding and positive solutions toward healthy lifestyle choices.

Finally, weight and personal fitness is a personal decision and the government has no business in attempting to regulate someone's personal lifestyle. Education in the schools is an excellent way to influence a child's mind to make informed choices that will lead to a healthy lifestyle. As far as adults, it is their choice, and I don't think they should be ostracised, penalized, or in any way made to be the scapegoat of elitist snobs who think everyone should live the lifestyle they may seek to force upon others in society. These are personal decisions that are personal lifestyle choices that normally do not affect other people in society except themsleves. Insurance claims that result in higher premiums due to overweight problems should be managed by the insurance professionals who determine actuarial tables. People who don't like flying crampt should consider flying first class because the airline seats are a challenge for even a midly obese person. What else can one do, relegate all people over a arbitrary size to the 'back of the bus"?

No. These are problems that require personal responsibility managed through a heightened personal awareness of how obesity affects the general population. Airlines aren't going to fabricate larger seats for coach anymore than Mc Donalds is going to quit making BIg Mac's and supersized meals. Education is a reasonable start to solving the problems associated with obesity in America, and the solutions lay with in individual choices, and not in any government program that creates scapegoats out of those who fail to live up to another's idea of an acceptable lifestyle.

[Nono]

Quote by: Aeris Someone once called me "weightist". You know, like a racist or a sexist. I apparently discriminate against people of weight.

The human mind does nothing if not categorize. And we're all suckers for the temptation to make value judgements.

Quote by: brien Education is a reasonable start to solving the problems associated with obesity in America, and the solutions lay with in individual choices ...

We've evolved to like sweet things (if you ate berries, you got precious vitamins), etc.
Now we have a huge food-production industry that makes a lot of things cheap (petroleum-based fertilizers and whatnot) and we can gorge ourselves on garbage.

Alternatively, if you're poor in North America you might subsist on Wonder Bread and Kraft Dinner. Also garbage.

... and not in any government program that creates scapegoats out of those who fail to live up to another's idea of an acceptable lifestyle.

Once obesity becomes a public health issue, government has a legitimate interest in doing something about it.

[underbear1]

We have to accept not every one is a size two or has washboard abs and a 28 inch waist. Actually very few have the genetic make-up to achieve washboard stomachs, but we have models with that ideal selling clothes EVERYWHERE. We have both extremes of bulemia/anorexic and overweight people in America, neither are natural or healthy. We need to seriously look at the corn syrup they are putting in damn near every food product, because it's cheap and plentiful.

[5010]

I think if anything there is more hatred for healthy people. These people are within the healthy BMI, get accolades from their doctors, and live an active lifestyle with proper diet and exercise. Unhealthy people, even perfect strangers, seem to have no restraint when they express their hatred.

[brien]

[QUOTE=Nono]The human mind does nothing if not categorize. And we're all suckers for the temptation to make value judgements.

Alternatively, if you're poor in North America you might subsist on Wonder Bread and Kraft Dinner. Also garbage.[/ QUOTE] Once obesity becomes a public health issue, government has a legitimate interest in doing something about it.

Alternatively, if you're poor in North America you might subsist on Wonder Bread and Kraft Dinner. Also garbage.[/

As they say in Maine "Dow" Poor people don't have to exist on such garbage. I know many people who simply bake their own bread and make their own Mac & Cheese. I have seen the people you describe in the markets, but it once again boils down to individual choice. Perhaps it is lazy people buy Wonder bread and Kraft Mac & Cheese. There is no reason that those who wish to eat healthy can't do so with today's choices in the market. I know many people who do it. Even those on food stamps can make more of their own food from "scratch."

Once obesity becomes a public health issue, government has a legitimate interest in doing something about it

Let's define public health issue and the damage that obese people cause society in general. I just can't see obesity as a public health issue so serious that we must run to the government seeking protection from yet another bogeyman. " Nanny, Nanny, Joey is so fat he is taking up part of my space in the airline seat. And besides, he smells bad also." :rolleyes:

What's next, the deodorant police? :eek:

[G. Adams]

Quote by: underbear1 We have to accept not every one is a size two or has washboard abs and a 28 inch waist.

Crap, crap crap. Those whose genetics preclude a tight, toned and strong stomach are a tiny minority. And getting ripped is more about keeping food consumption down. It's not hugely difficult to get a good body.

I'm sick and tired of hearing people saying "oh i've tried everything, i just can't get might weight down", yet they have a coke with their dinner ffs. I can give anyone a fitness and diet plan that will get the fat off them and tone them up, but they need to show some dedication and patience for once in their lives. It is a symptom of our now now now society that causes so much laziness towards health, because if they don't have a model body 2 weeks into going to the gym they give up and cry they've tried so hard.

Unless you have prader-willi or any of the other real eating disorders, and not just habitual eating, you have no excuse for being permanently fat.

I'm not getting at people for not looking like models by the way, frankly many women look better at a UK size 14 instead of 8, but I hate the "can't do" attitude.

[underbear1]

The washboard stomach is genetic, others can diet and do crunches until they die of exhaustion and not achieve a washboard 6 pack.Now liposuction and implants can give this illusion and gay men specificly have their own form of anorexia/bulemia, the zero percentage of body fat, with a T shape shoulders and massive pecs.

[Aeris]

I'm hardly suggesting that all chicks need to be a size 2 and everybody needs a size two stomach. Hell, in 1950 it was attractive for a girl of my age and height to be 135 like I am. Washboard toothpicks can't have an hourglass figure.

I just think that if people kept their BMI within normal limits (i.e. a girl my age and height shouldn't weigh 175) we'd have a healthier society. You're making me sound like I want everybody to look like the models on the front of Cosmo and Playgirl.

A thirty minute walk instead of a television show would do a world of good. Picking a side salad instead of french fries would be a good decision. Stairs instead of the escalator. Cooking your own food. These are all little, managable things that normal people like you and me can do to stay healthy.

[Milton Bradley]

This looks like a good place for a fat joke.


I'm not scared of heights, I'm scared of widths.


Seriously though, I am only weightist in my natural attraction to the opposite sex. It's nothing that I consciusly choose to do, it's just where my eye naturally wanders. I like thin, petite women, and I just can't help it.

[Aeris]

Quote by: Milton Bradley Seriously though, I am only weightist in my natural attraction to the opposite sex. It's nothing that I consciusly choose to do, it's just where my eye naturally wanders. I like thin, petite women, and I just can't help it.

I've always looked at it this way. We still eat sweet foods because our ancestors needed the sugar. Our pupils still widen when we're scared so we can see better to fight or flee. And we're attracted to fit people because, no offense, fatties don't survive long in the wild. And who wants to breed with someone who's not going to survive? A little fat is attractive because it means you can survive a famine, but can you imagine an obese caveman running from a predator or hunting a wooly mammoth?

[underbear1]

Zoftig women were considered beautiful, because the represented fertility and wealth. Just look at the women Rubens painted, they look like Star Jones pre-surgery.
http://stuorgs.uidaho.edu/~flame/images/rubens_rape.jpg

[Scribbler1]

Well, maybe not quite Star Jones, but those women didn't look like anorexics. The same went for men a long time ago. Fat men were considered rich and/or successful because their size showed they could afford the fattening food so therefore they were to be admired.

[Ironstove]

Quote by: Scribbler1 Well, maybe not quite Star Jones, but those women didn't look like anorexics. The same went for men a long time ago. Fat men were considered rich and/or successful because their size showed they could afford the fattening food so therefore they were to be admired.

the key word you used was "were". see in our current society ugly isn't attractive and fat is ugly. nobody wants to be unattractive (and if they do then they probably have some issues) there are those who are perhaps apathetic about being astheticly pleasing to the rest of us so they let themselves go, but their main motive isn't to look unattractive; they just don't care.

people bringing up how "fat people were thought to be rich" or "fat women were thought to bear babies better" are using outdated and close-minded beliefs. when i see a fat person i dont' automatically assume "wow that guy must be making at least 6 figures a year." in fact, if anything i think:

1. bad genes
2. doesn't work out
3. has a bad diet
4. all of the above

i don't admire fat people for being fat. i don't think anyone does in our PRESENT time. living in the past is silly and it's time to get with the program. i know that some people are overweight because of their genes, but i doubt that 80% of america has bad genes. it is the way we eat. personally, i was born with pretty good genes, i never work out and i eat terrible food since i'm always in a rush but i'm 5'9 and weigh 125 pds so maybe i'm just being really arrogant by saying that being fat is a problem that is easy to fix. scientifically we know that being fat in unhealthy so i don't understand why there are still people that try to defend obesity saying that "it makes people think you're rich."

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: Ironstove the key word you used was "were". see in our current society ugly isn't attractive and fat is ugly.

Ugly is too subjective to use it in this kind of argument. Qualify it with "to me" or "in my opinion" and you'll be on safer ground.

nobody wants to be unattractive (and if they do then they probably have some issues) there are those who are perhaps apathetic about being astheticly pleasing to the rest of us so they let themselves go, but their main motive isn't to look unattractive; they just don't care.

Maybe they just don't care what YOU think. Believe it or not there are plenty of people who find "overweight" people attractive. A while back there was a model who would pose nude in magazines. She was fat and she was beautiful. (The first one to guess her name will win a coveted no-prize)

people bringing up how "fat people were thought to be rich" or "fat women were thought to bear babies better" are using outdated and close-minded beliefs.

Reread the thread. Nobody, particularly me, was saying this was the current norm and I DON'T think this is 1925. Note the use of "were" in my post. I wasn't saying any particular body weight was good or bad.

when i see a fat person i dont' automatically assume "wow that guy must be making at least 6 figures a year." in fact, if anything i think:..

I don't assume that either but again, what you and I think is strictly our opinion. Now, what is referred to as "morbid obesity" is another thing entirely and THAT is not healthy (not to mention unattractive as hell to me personally). But that's not just "fat" and most people who pack on a few extra pounds may not meet your esthetic preferences but they are perfectly capable of living a good life without worrying about what others think of them.

[Ironstove]

ty for the 2 cents on debating and using terms like "imo" ect... (personally i usually try to refrain from using those terms unless it is necessary to not sound like a complete bigot since it can make the argument ambiguous hence, killing the whole purpose of a debate)

i think that your version of "plenty of people" is pretty subjective. i rarely meet a person who seeks someone with love handles to start a relationship with.

even the majority of fat people i meet find skinny people attractive (i'm saying majority because i'm not sure if it's all of them since i never really bothered to ask what their physical preferences for their ideal soul mate were)

and if you don't assume that a fat person is rich, then why did you bring it up for your argument in your previous post? why would you bring up material for your side of the argument only to back down and say that you don't support it when it is brought to question?

[underbear1]

I only pointed out Ruben's models were the standard of beauty of their day, and standards are subject to change. In the roaring 20's small breasted thin women were the fashion, and again in the 1960's when Twiggy was the top model. The 1950's had Jane Mansfield and Marilyn as their standard of beauty, and they were definitely curvier body types.

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: Ironstove ty for the 2 cents on debating and using terms like "imo" ect... (personally i usually try to refrain from using those terms unless it is necessary to not sound like a complete bigot since it can make the argument ambiguous hence, killing the whole purpose of a debate)

I agree, but arguments like "they just don't care" is a little TOO subjective to let pass.

i think that your version of "plenty of people" is pretty subjective. i rarely meet a person who seeks someone with love handles to start a relationship with.

The fact that this woman is popular enough to make it into men's magazines is proof enough there are "plenty" of people who enjoy at least THAT heavy woman. And, as I realize I have no specifics I used the deliberately vague "plenty of people".

even the majority of fat people i meet find skinny people attractive (i'm saying majority because i'm not sure if it's all of them since i never really bothered to ask what their physical preferences for their ideal soul mate were)

So you are saying "the majority" of people you admittedly never asked who they find attractive somehow forms the basis of your argument? And even if your baseless position was actually true, you would have to admit the logic of the opposite being true. That of course would be that many skinny people must also find fat people generally attractive.

and if you don't assume that a fat person is rich, then why did you bring it up for your argument in your previous post? why would you bring up material for your side of the argument only to back down and say that you don't support it when it is brought to question?

I'm sure you know the difference between an argument and an observation. I was commenting on Underbear's mention of Reubens' paintings, which highlight larger women than those considered fashionable today. In my case it was that fat men in an earlier time WERE often considered well-off. Do you dispute this or will you continue to claim I was saying this is true TODAY? If you are indeed claiming I was referring to modern culture, kindly quote where I said it.