Volconvo is a debate forum for the discussion of political, religious, and news-based topics.

5010 · Jun 30, 2006, 05:35 pm

A new study reported here compared driving sober, distracted, and drunk during a simulation. The simulation was something police officers use for high-speed pursuit training. Sober and drunk results had insignificant differences in braking reactions and no crashes. The cell phone result had a significant difference in braking reaction and there were 3 crashes among the 40 test subjects. Drunk meant they had .08 blood-alcohol, legally defined by many states as driving while intoxicated.

The weird thing about the article is the title: "Cell phone talking worse than driving drunk - study". That leads the reader to think that drunk driving is bad, but the study shows nothing unsafe about drunk driving. What is really news to me would be this title: "Drunk driving found as safe as sober driving - study".

Is there a bias in the news towards making the government more restrictive?

PatrickHenry · Jun 30, 2006, 06:20 pm

Quote:

Quote by: 5010

...

Is there a bias in the news towards making the government more restrictive?

No doubt there is. But the study showed that the intoxicated drivers were more aggressive and also followed closer than the others. 5010, don't make it seem that drunk driving is OK. It's deadly.

Also the article noted that drunk drivers are often MUCH more intoxicated than the ones in the study...

Mia · Jun 30, 2006, 06:20 pm

The study was not comprehensive enough to determine that drunk driving is safe. I also saw a study that showed exhausted drivers doing worse than drunk. I have felt very unsafe DWE myself.

5010 · Jun 30, 2006, 06:38 pm

Oh I fully believe that there is a point where alcohol is deadly for driving, but what is uncertain is what level impairs driving. The study shows .08 is no biggie and therefore it is seriously wrong to put someone in a cage at that level.

Mia · Jun 30, 2006, 08:10 pm

I don't think the study showed that at all. Testing on two measurements only with drivers in an observed situation doesn't mean that people are not impaired at .8.

Leveller · Jul 1, 2006, 04:18 pm

In defining a rule for everyone, you have to go for the lowest common denominator, the vast majority of people can drive on .8 but some people are very poor at handling there drink, you have to set a limit where you can be sure that no-one who has drunk that much is inaperble of driving.

Beyond that point, its obviosly a scale. In the UK, having 2 pints would put you over the limit, but many people can still drive perfectly safely, having had 8 though, you'd be lucky to find your car, let alone drive it home safely.

And in the end, if you were driving drunk sand you hit someone, could you forgive yourself?

underbear1 · Jul 1, 2006, 04:47 pm

My lover's mother was killed by a drunk driver. If you are willing to risk the life of a beloved family member to rationalize drunk drivers, that's pathetic. If you are willing to rationalize your drunk killing MY LOVED ONE it's criminal.

carlessbiker · Jul 1, 2006, 04:56 pm

The study was aimed at showing the effect of driving while talking on a cell phone. It (to the best of my knowledge) was intended to show that driving on the phone was as bad if not worse than drink under the influence. The reason they showed it at a lower level of intoxication is due to the fact that nothing is as bad as an extremely drunk person driving. I like my whiskey as much as anyone but I think that anyone who has more than one drink and drives should have their license taken away.

jose · Jul 1, 2006, 05:01 pm

It also depends on the flow of traffic years ago i used to drive home from a night out with one eye closed so as not to see double but then my car was almost the only one on the road, now i only drink at home,,,,cheers

carlessbiker · Jul 1, 2006, 05:04 pm

Well, don't quit your day job - a motivational speaker is not for you. You realize how many cyclists and pedestrians have been hit on low traffic roads due to that one dumb-ass who think he can "handle his liquor?"

jose · Jul 1, 2006, 05:21 pm

I dont have a day job or a night one i´m retired, and as i said things have changed i no longer drink at social functions, i do however enjoy a few beers at home, i also have earned a lot of money as a motivational speaker and as of today i havent run over one carelessbiker

carlessbiker · Jul 1, 2006, 05:38 pm

Quote:

Quote by: jose

i also have earned a lot of money as a motivational speaker

Haha, didn't see that one coming.

Quote:

Quote by: jose

and as of today i havent run over one carelessbiker

It's car-less, not care-less....but good.

Mia · Jul 1, 2006, 06:13 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Leveller

In defining a rule for everyone, you have to go for the lowest common denominator, the vast majority of people can drive on .8 but some people are very poor at handling there drink, you have to set a limit where you can be sure that no-one who has drunk that much is inaperble of driving.

Beyond that point, its obviosly a scale. In the UK, having 2 pints would put you over the limit, but many people can still drive perfectly safely, having had 8 though, you'd be lucky to find your car, let alone drive it home safely.

And in the end, if you were driving drunk sand you hit someone, could you forgive yourself?

An alcoholic who has developed a tremendous tolerance can probably drive safely with quite a high blood level, but what you wrote makes sense. If there are people who are impaired at .8 (and I agree many, if not most, are) then that is where the bar has to be set.

Clarence · Jul 2, 2006, 02:31 am

Confession. I have driven over the legal limit many times before. 3-4 nights a week, about a year after I turned 21, I got highly buzzed and tore off in my extremely powerful machine into the cool night air. You know, I'd walk out feeling giddy buzzed but highly focused. The overhead lamps shine down on it's muscular contours. As I approach, the lamps move over the car as if stroking a tamed beast. I know. I'll take the 'back' way home...

now at this point it sounds like I'm about to get out of control. Am I really about to not only drive under the influence, but speed under the influence? The answer (many times) was yes. I've been lucky.

I'm not afraid to tell you that I can handle a vehicle. Sure enough, I drive safer than most people who never break the speedlimits. Just like using a dangerous powertool, driving is usually not dangerous unless you aren't paying attention (or speeding). I mean, it's easy to drive. Look at how many people do it succesfully. The reason talking on your cell phone and driving is dangerous, is the lack of attention to the road it causes. :confused: The dangerous thing about speeding is that mistakes have higher consequences.

Wrecks happen out of nowhere occasionaly. Things out of the drivers ability to control. Unexpected debris in the road. or you get rear-ended. drunk driver hits you. I can't think of anymore but there's gotta be a kazillion scenerios where the driver was not to blame. Each of them random and hard to imagine. I call these things the hidden variable.

So, the hidden variable is rare and unexpected when it arrives. Could happen to anyone, by definition. When you increase four-wheeled projectile speed, you are increasing the consequences of said hidden variable. (getting to my point)

Alcohol affects your motor skills and mental state seperately. We all know that alcohol impairs motor skills, reaction time ect. Two beers are not going to inebriate me. For me, the truly dangerous thing about driving buzzed is the increased speed I feel confortable at. For others too.

I never got in trouble and no longer live that life style. I no longer own a 400hp RUV. new term, Race Utility Vehicle. I drive a volkswagen on the raod. I also have therapy sessions every sat evening. So when I started reading this thread, I looked at myself to see how I feel. I feel that I took too many chances not to feel lucky and sorry at the same time. Honestly, I have always felt pissed when other people drink and drive. Don't drink and drive. I'm glad I didn't learn the hard way. I'm the kinda person that would go nuts if I killed someone innocent. Shoot, I dodge frogs in foggy valleys and chipmunks on leave-strewn gravel.

If you're one of the millions who drive buzzed, you might get caught. probably not. At least consider the hidden variables and control your speed. And definitly do not speed while driving drunk and talking on your cell phone. or any combination of the three.

Also, get rid of your cell phone as soon as possible. I think they're ridiculous. Especially since you are getting severely ripped off. Extremely high profit margins fund terrorism, for sure. Plus they sometimes cause wrecks. I'll bet there's times where someone is focusing on driving and wrecking their conversation with someone important. It's no win, see? Cell phones in the trash. CB radios under the dash.

GodBlessAmerica · Jul 2, 2006, 02:33 am

Drugs, alcohol and cell phones are all bad with driving IMO.

tman_ndsu08 · Jul 2, 2006, 10:51 am

All the talk about what's safe and what's not safe for a level of alcohol when driving is irrelvent.

People are going to go out. Can't stop that, never will.
People are going to drive to get the place they go out to. Can't stop that, never will.
People are going to drink at those places. Can't stop that, never will.
People are going to drive home drunk. Can't stop that, never will.

Sure, it's tragic that people get in wreaks.

Is it more tragic if someone who gets in a wreak is drunk? Are you going to say that one crash that kills is worse than another crash?

underbear1 · Jul 2, 2006, 11:08 am

Quote:

Quote by: tman_ndsu08

All the talk about what's safe and what's not safe for a level of alcohol when driving is irrelvent.

People are going to go out. Can't stop that, never will.
People are going to drive to get the place they go out to. Can't stop that, never will.
People are going to drink at those places. Can't stop that, never will.
People are going to drive home drunk. Can't stop that, never will.

Sure, it's tragic that people get in wreaks.

Is it more tragic if someone who gets in a wreak is drunk? Are you going to say that one crash that kills is worse than another crash?

This has yet to be determined. The difference with drunk driving and distracted driving, BOTH ARE PREVENTABLE. The loss of life due to something preventable, makes it all the more tragic when it kills the person choosing that behavior, unfortunately both kill innocent bystanders as well.

tman_ndsu08 · Jul 2, 2006, 11:14 am

It isn't preventable.

You'll never be able to stop it.

And franky, I don't think they should even try.

If you get into a wreak, you get into a wreak and it's your fault.

Deal with the wreak.

underbear1 · Jul 2, 2006, 11:34 am

Quote:

Quote by: tman_ndsu08

It isn't preventable.

You'll never be able to stop it.

And franky, I don't think they should even try.

If you get into a wreak, you get into a wreak and it's your fault.

Deal with the wreak.

OK line the highways near a popular bar with your family members to test your theory.........deal with it!

tman_ndsu08 · Jul 2, 2006, 11:55 am

I don't quite understand you strawman argument.

Are you going to make an attempt at a counter argument with logic? Or keep appealing to emotion in a non sequitor fashion?

Jun 30, 2006, 05:35 pm	#1 (permalink) (top)
5010 mostly harmless Location: USA Posts: 1,284	Safely driving drunk A new study reported here compared driving sober, distracted, and drunk during a simulation. The simulation was something police officers use for high-speed pursuit training. Sober and drunk results had insignificant differences in braking reactions and no crashes. The cell phone result had a significant difference in braking reaction and there were 3 crashes among the 40 test subjects. Drunk meant they had .08 blood-alcohol, legally defined by many states as driving while intoxicated. The weird thing about the article is the title: "Cell phone talking worse than driving drunk - study". That leads the reader to think that drunk driving is bad, but the study shows nothing unsafe about drunk driving. What is really news to me would be this title: "Drunk driving found as safe as sober driving - study". Is there a bias in the news towards making the government more restrictive? - solo (my site)

Jun 30, 2006, 06:20 pm	#3 (permalink) (top)
Mia Retired Posts: 7,312	The study was not comprehensive enough to determine that drunk driving is safe. I also saw a study that showed exhausted drivers doing worse than drunk. I have felt very unsafe DWE myself. "...with like-minded people one cannot discuss. With like-minded people one can only participate in a church service, and you know how I feel about church services." Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Jun 30, 2006, 06:38 pm	#4 (permalink) (top)
5010 mostly harmless Location: USA Posts: 1,284	Oh I fully believe that there is a point where alcohol is deadly for driving, but what is uncertain is what level impairs driving. The study shows .08 is no biggie and therefore it is seriously wrong to put someone in a cage at that level. - solo (my site)

Jun 30, 2006, 08:10 pm	#5 (permalink) (top)
Mia Retired Posts: 7,312	I don't think the study showed that at all. Testing on two measurements only with drivers in an observed situation doesn't mean that people are not impaired at .8. "...with like-minded people one cannot discuss. With like-minded people one can only participate in a church service, and you know how I feel about church services." Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Jul 1, 2006, 04:56 pm	#8 (permalink) (top)
carlessbiker Someplace Hot Location: So. Utah Posts: 65	The study was aimed at showing the effect of driving while talking on a cell phone. It (to the best of my knowledge) was intended to show that driving on the phone was as bad if not worse than drink under the influence. The reason they showed it at a lower level of intoxication is due to the fact that nothing is as bad as an extremely drunk person driving. I like my whiskey as much as anyone but I think that anyone who has more than one drink and drives should have their license taken away. You're not your job. You're not how much money you have in the bank. You're not the car you drive. You're not the contents of your wallet. You're not your fucking khakis.

Jul 1, 2006, 04:18 pm	#6 (permalink) (top)
Leveller radial spaghetti Location: YOU Posts: 31	In defining a rule for everyone, you have to go for the lowest common denominator, the vast majority of people can drive on .8 but some people are very poor at handling there drink, you have to set a limit where you can be sure that no-one who has drunk that much is inaperble of driving. Beyond that point, its obviosly a scale. In the UK, having 2 pints would put you over the limit, but many people can still drive perfectly safely, having had 8 though, you'd be lucky to find your car, let alone drive it home safely. And in the end, if you were driving drunk sand you hit someone, could you forgive yourself?

Jul 1, 2006, 04:47 pm	#7 (permalink) (top)
underbear1 BANNED Posts: 2,630	My lover's mother was killed by a drunk driver. If you are willing to risk the life of a beloved family member to rationalize drunk drivers, that's pathetic. If you are willing to rationalize your drunk killing MY LOVED ONE it's criminal.

Jul 1, 2006, 05:01 pm	#9 (permalink) (top)
jose Volcanic Erupter Location: España Posts: 2,586	It also depends on the flow of traffic years ago i used to drive home from a night out with one eye closed so as not to see double but then my car was almost the only one on the road, now i only drink at home,,,,cheers

Jul 1, 2006, 05:04 pm	#10 (permalink) (top)
carlessbiker Someplace Hot Location: So. Utah Posts: 65	Well, don't quit your day job - a motivational speaker is not for you. You realize how many cyclists and pedestrians have been hit on low traffic roads due to that one dumb-ass who think he can "handle his liquor?" You're not your job. You're not how much money you have in the bank. You're not the car you drive. You're not the contents of your wallet. You're not your fucking khakis.

Jul 1, 2006, 05:21 pm	#11 (permalink) (top)
jose Volcanic Erupter Location: España Posts: 2,586	I dont have a day job or a night one i´m retired, and as i said things have changed i no longer drink at social functions, i do however enjoy a few beers at home, i also have earned a lot of money as a motivational speaker and as of today i havent run over one carelessbiker

Jul 2, 2006, 02:31 am	#14 (permalink) (top)
Clarence pregnant with truth Posts: 2,272	Confession. I have driven over the legal limit many times before. 3-4 nights a week, about a year after I turned 21, I got highly buzzed and tore off in my extremely powerful machine into the cool night air. You know, I'd walk out feeling giddy buzzed but highly focused. The overhead lamps shine down on it's muscular contours. As I approach, the lamps move over the car as if stroking a tamed beast. I know. I'll take the 'back' way home... now at this point it sounds like I'm about to get out of control. Am I really about to not only drive under the influence, but speed under the influence? The answer (many times) was yes. I've been lucky. I'm not afraid to tell you that I can handle a vehicle. Sure enough, I drive safer than most people who never break the speedlimits. Just like using a dangerous powertool, driving is usually not dangerous unless you aren't paying attention (or speeding). I mean, it's easy to drive. Look at how many people do it succesfully. The reason talking on your cell phone and driving is dangerous, is the lack of attention to the road it causes. :confused: The dangerous thing about speeding is that mistakes have higher consequences. Wrecks happen out of nowhere occasionaly. Things out of the drivers ability to control. Unexpected debris in the road. or you get rear-ended. drunk driver hits you. I can't think of anymore but there's gotta be a kazillion scenerios where the driver was not to blame. Each of them random and hard to imagine. I call these things the hidden variable. So, the hidden variable is rare and unexpected when it arrives. Could happen to anyone, by definition. When you increase four-wheeled projectile speed, you are increasing the consequences of said hidden variable. (getting to my point) Alcohol affects your motor skills and mental state seperately. We all know that alcohol impairs motor skills, reaction time ect. Two beers are not going to inebriate me. For me, the truly dangerous thing about driving buzzed is the increased speed I feel confortable at. For others too. I never got in trouble and no longer live that life style. I no longer own a 400hp RUV. new term, Race Utility Vehicle. I drive a volkswagen on the raod. I also have therapy sessions every sat evening. So when I started reading this thread, I looked at myself to see how I feel. I feel that I took too many chances not to feel lucky and sorry at the same time. Honestly, I have always felt pissed when other people drink and drive. Don't drink and drive. I'm glad I didn't learn the hard way. I'm the kinda person that would go nuts if I killed someone innocent. Shoot, I dodge frogs in foggy valleys and chipmunks on leave-strewn gravel. If you're one of the millions who drive buzzed, you might get caught. probably not. At least consider the hidden variables and control your speed. And definitly do not speed while driving drunk and talking on your cell phone. or any combination of the three. Also, get rid of your cell phone as soon as possible. I think they're ridiculous. Especially since you are getting severely ripped off. Extremely high profit margins fund terrorism, for sure. Plus they sometimes cause wrecks. I'll bet there's times where someone is focusing on driving and wrecking their conversation with someone important. It's no win, see? Cell phones in the trash. CB radios under the dash.

Jul 2, 2006, 02:33 am	#15 (permalink) (top)
GodBlessAmerica Look Stuff Up Posts: 810	Drugs, alcohol and cell phones are all bad with driving IMO. "Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

Jul 2, 2006, 10:51 am	#16 (permalink) (top)
tman_ndsu08 BANNED Posts: 5,021	All the talk about what's safe and what's not safe for a level of alcohol when driving is irrelvent. People are going to go out. Can't stop that, never will. People are going to drive to get the place they go out to. Can't stop that, never will. People are going to drink at those places. Can't stop that, never will. People are going to drive home drunk. Can't stop that, never will. Sure, it's tragic that people get in wreaks. Is it more tragic if someone who gets in a wreak is drunk? Are you going to say that one crash that kills is worse than another crash?

Jul 2, 2006, 11:14 am	#18 (permalink) (top)
tman_ndsu08 BANNED Posts: 5,021	It isn't preventable. You'll never be able to stop it. And franky, I don't think they should even try. If you get into a wreak, you get into a wreak and it's your fault. Deal with the wreak.

Jul 2, 2006, 11:55 am	#20 (permalink) (top)
tman_ndsu08 BANNED Posts: 5,021	I don't quite understand you strawman argument. Are you going to make an attempt at a counter argument with logic? Or keep appealing to emotion in a non sequitor fashion?