Volconvo is a debate forum for the discussion of political, religious, and news-based topics.

FIFI · Apr 16, 2004, 05:41 pm

Hello. I am a new member

And I would like to start today off with a good old fashion debate.
Ok, now here is whats going on:

In my highschool (In Oregon) I had a guy-friend of mine "come out" and he told his friends of his preferred sexual choice. After his coming out my friend was treated brutially. I am talking broken bone beatings, random death notes, exclusion in classes (mostly P.E.) even signs against all "sinning homo's" was posted by our Bible Club around the school. This went on for all of his sophmore, and the remander of his freshman year. School administraters were little help, since they never caught anyone unless my guy-friend could Identify them, and we realized that our health center and counsilers were unequipped, and ill-informed/prepared to answer or help homosexual students.
So, during my sophmore year, I and two other friends started the GSA (Gay Straight Alliance.) We helped our counsilers inform the other students, bought pamplets for the centers and ourselves, and set up a student counsler center that would help answer both straight, gay, transexaul, and bi students questions and help them explain themselves properly to family and friends, with health department help we now have condoms, contact for appointments and we even held rallies to promote peace in our schools for ALL students, no matter what your preferece.
The problem is that I am in my Junior year, and we have a new, very religious and VERY anti-homosexual princible who has ordered our club to be shut down because our title, projects, and message are "school inappropriet due to the sexual nature of our club discussions and meetings"
Are we wrong for promoting tolerence, information and comfort to my peers who are different??

Mia · Apr 16, 2004, 05:53 pm

I don't think so, but when you have Republicans against any kind of sex education even for straights I think you're going to have an uphill battle.

It's too bad you can't debate with your "religious" principle about the fact that the sin of homosexuality is no different than the lust in his groin for other women and he should not throw stones since we are all sinners!

Same goes for your Bible Club. I shut my brother up about homosexuality when I pointed out all sins and asked doesn't God say all sins are equal to each other?

Suburbanite · Apr 16, 2004, 06:04 pm

Do you live in Texas?

Catch 22 · Apr 16, 2004, 06:21 pm

hehe my advice to you is to ask for a debate with these religious assholes. If that doesn't work than I suggest all out guerilla war. Blitz these guys with media attention, leaflets, you name it. Get the entire town roiled in this thing until you can solve it.

and if all else fails kick the principal in the nuts.

Apr 16, 2004, 07:16 pm

FIFI, I know where you stand at. Ever live in a Latin American country and being gay? Well I have. The crap I put up with... well my parents moved around, working for the US Department of State... and that's how it goes. Homophobia is everywhere, but far worse in Latin America.

You definitely must start a blitzkrieg of media attention, leaflets, posters, etc (as Catch 22 mentioned) to bring more awareness. I'm an 18 year old gay guy, who is in College now, but when in high school I had to put up with a lot of crap and there was no GSA. This is very noble of you and I wish the best of luck for you.

I can't stand religious fundamentalists. I tell them: I'm atheist, gay and I don't want to hear quotes out of the bible or about your god. It is not part of my life.

I always thought Oregon was relatively non-homophobic.. isn't Portland like that? Well that principle could be taken to court if you really wanted to and you could legally force the school adminstration to accept your GSA club. That's as a very last resort.

Mozart1220 · Apr 17, 2004, 11:00 am

In Utah, there was a club sort of like yours. The kids discussed their problems and how to deal with them. They discovered they were not as alone as they thought. Many straight kids attended as a show of support. Some backward thinking parents and students (Mormons of course) petitioned and the club was shut down. The kids argued that it was no different than the chess club or the French club or any ither "interest group" that met on the campus.

The school realised they had to be fair. If they allowed other clubs to meet they HAD to allow the Gay/lesbian club to meet as well. Forward thinking right?

Wrong!

They banned ALL clubs on the school campus. Now the gay kids are perscuted even more for getting all the other clubs banned.

You gotta love bigots.

Apr 17, 2004, 11:57 pm

Well arrogant bigots are everywhere. I had to put up with them throughout high school and they won't disappear. Maybe education will help them see the errors of their actions and bigotry, but I'm not at all optimistic. But at least having a support group will encourage those who do not anything to help or hurt the situation to be supportive of gay and lesbian students.

The current group I'm part of:

CAl State Northridge GLBT Alliance

Mia · Apr 18, 2004, 06:08 am

Fifi, that is really great what you did and I hope you keep it up. Too few people are willing to put their necks out for someone else. Kudos and good luck!

ConservativeX · Apr 18, 2004, 11:53 am

[quote=Giancarlo,]Well arrogant bigots are everywhere. I had to put up with them throughout high school and they won't disappear.[quote]

Giancarlo, is there ANY sexual preference that you find morally wrong?

ANY?

ConservativeX · Apr 18, 2004, 11:55 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (FIFI,)
After his coming out my friend was treated brutially. I am talking broken bone beatings, random death notes, exclusion in classes (mostly P.E.) even signs against all "sinning homo's" was posted by our Bible Club around the school. This went on for all of his sophmore, and the remander of his freshman year. School administraters were little help, since they never caught anyone unless my guy-friend could Identify them, and we realized that our health center and counsilers were unequipped, and ill-informed/prepared to answer or help homosexual students.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

Except for the beatings and the death threats (which I condemn), the rest is acceptable. You can't FORCE someone to accept you and I hope that you stand up for religious people's rights to free press and speech.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (FIFI,)
Are we wrong for promoting tolerence, information and comfort to my peers who are different??<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

In your promotion of "tolerance", how do you refer to people with religious beliefs that say homosexuality is a sin?

Do you promote tolerance for them as well, or just your viewpoint?

SVMc · Apr 18, 2004, 03:23 pm

Fifi - Congratulations on founding such as progressive tolerant group in your high school, showing mutual support in incredibly important for all people of any persuasion.

Here is the link for the University of Oregon's Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgendered support services and educational program, if you contact them they will be able to give you some help and support in keeping your student group alive. LGBT Oregon

Also Catch-22 is correct get some media attention on this immediately. There is nothing like a bright light to make bigots crawl back under the rock they came from.

Originally Posted by ConservativeX
<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
In your promotion of "tolerance", how do you refer to people with religious beliefs that say homosexuality is a sin?
<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

Tolerance of intolerance is not tolerance, nor should it be expected. If someone disagrees with homosexuality, they do not have to participate in a homosexual relationship, no one will force them to. They will not be forced to view gay pornography or attend social functions at gay clubs. They can have their religious opinions and preach them if they want to, however when it comes to denying rights to people based on sexual orientation, such as shutting down the Gay Straight Alliance and not the Students Against Drunk Driving, or the Youth Bible Club (both of which are also morally based student activity clubs) then no, there should be no tolerance of discrimination.

Apr 18, 2004, 03:28 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (ConservativeX,)

Giancarlo, is there ANY sexual preference that you find morally wrong?

ANY?<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

*yawn* Anything else you want to ask homophobe?

I think heterosexuality or homosexuality are not wrong. And it is not a preference, it is an orientation.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
Except for the beatings and the death threats (which I condemn), the rest is acceptable. You can't FORCE someone to accept you and I hope that you stand up for religious people's rights to free press and speech.
<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

No, none of it is acceptable. You can't harass people and call them "faggots" and shit for their sexual orientation. You just can't harass people, period.

Damn you, conservativex, you shouldn't be in this thread.

dotcoma · Apr 18, 2004, 03:30 pm

I'm not a homophobe. I just can't get over the whole poop thing...

SVMc · Apr 18, 2004, 03:36 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
I'm not a homophobe. I just can't get over the whole poop thing... <hr size="1" /></blockquote>

That's not a homosexual thing, that's an anal sex thing and quite common in heterosexual sex as well.... Fortunately regardless of sexual orientation you don't have to do it if you don't like it.

Apr 18, 2004, 03:48 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (roxdog,)
I'm not a homophobe. I just can't get over the whole poop thing...<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

I'm gay and I don't do that.... not turned on by it.

Suburbanite · Apr 18, 2004, 04:24 pm

Fifi? Texas?

ConservativeX · Apr 18, 2004, 10:14 pm

Quote:

Originally posted by SVMc,
Originally Posted by ConservativeX

Quote:

In your promotion of "tolerance", how do you refer to people with religious beliefs that say homosexuality is a sin?

Tolerance of intolerance is not tolerance, nor should it be expected. If someone disagrees with homosexuality, they do not have to participate in a homosexual relationship, no one will force them to. They will not be forced to view gay pornography or attend social functions at gay clubs. They can have their religious opinions and preach them if they want to, however when it comes to denying rights to people based on sexual orientation, such as shutting down the Gay Straight Alliance and not the Students Against Drunk Driving, or the Youth Bible Club (both of which are also morally based student activity clubs) then no, there should be no tolerance of discrimination.

You don't even believe that. Are you saying that there should be NO MORAL discrimination in the USA?

NONE?

What about laws that prohibit actions based on morality?

ConservativeX · Apr 18, 2004, 10:18 pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Giancarlo,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Giancarlo,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-ConservativeX,

Giancarlo, is there ANY sexual preference that you find morally wrong?

ANY?

*yawn* Anything else you want to ask homophobe?

I think heterosexuality or homosexuality are not wrong. And it is not a preference, it is an orientation. [/b][/quote]

Leave the name calling to the Left, G. I've read a lot of your posts; you're better than that.

And you didn't answer my question; is there any kind of sexual preference/orientation that you find morally wrong?

If so, do you support ANY of them being outlawed?

Quote:

No, none of it is acceptable. You can't harass people and call them "faggots" and shit for their sexual orientation. You just can't harass people, period.

Except "homophobes", eh?

That's a double standard, G.

The fact is that name calling, while not desirable in a debate, is protected speech (if not libelous or slanderous in nature).

Quote:

Damn you, conservativex, you shouldn't be in this thread.

Why? Because you can't address my points in the other similar thread?

http://www.volconvo.com/forums/index.php?s...opic=1068&st=30

Mozart1220 · Apr 18, 2004, 10:18 pm

I find it funny that there are gay people even among conservative Republicans. I read in the paper today that they are very offended by resident Bush's attitude towards smae sex marraige and homosexuality in general. It seems that thre are about a million more Republicans who WON'T be voting for Jr. this November.

ConservativeX · Apr 18, 2004, 10:20 pm

Most people who are politically aware are not single-issue voters. There are issues which resonate strongly with various groups, but most people who are political in nature don't respond to just one issue.

For instance, I am Pro-Life; if John Kerry were Pro-Life and GW was Pro-Choice, but everything else was the same, I still wouldn't vote for Kerry.

Apr 16, 2004, 05:41 pm	#1 (permalink) (top)
FIFI THROBBIN ROBIN Location: USA Posts: 311	Hello. I am a new member And I would like to start today off with a good old fashion debate. Ok, now here is whats going on: In my highschool (In Oregon) I had a guy-friend of mine "come out" and he told his friends of his preferred sexual choice. After his coming out my friend was treated brutially. I am talking broken bone beatings, random death notes, exclusion in classes (mostly P.E.) even signs against all "sinning homo's" was posted by our Bible Club around the school. This went on for all of his sophmore, and the remander of his freshman year. School administraters were little help, since they never caught anyone unless my guy-friend could Identify them, and we realized that our health center and counsilers were unequipped, and ill-informed/prepared to answer or help homosexual students. So, during my sophmore year, I and two other friends started the GSA (Gay Straight Alliance.) We helped our counsilers inform the other students, bought pamplets for the centers and ourselves, and set up a student counsler center that would help answer both straight, gay, transexaul, and bi students questions and help them explain themselves properly to family and friends, with health department help we now have condoms, contact for appointments and we even held rallies to promote peace in our schools for ALL students, no matter what your preferece. The problem is that I am in my Junior year, and we have a new, very religious and VERY anti-homosexual princible who has ordered our club to be shut down because our title, projects, and message are "school inappropriet due to the sexual nature of our club discussions and meetings" Are we wrong for promoting tolerence, information and comfort to my peers who are different?? DON'T TAKE AWAY MY RIGHTS JUST BECAUSE YOU DON'T EXERCISE YOURS. Better to be thought a fool with ones mouth shut, than to speak and remove all doubt

Apr 16, 2004, 05:53 pm	#2 (permalink) (top)
Mia Retired Posts: 7,312	I don't think so, but when you have Republicans against any kind of sex education even for straights I think you're going to have an uphill battle. It's too bad you can't debate with your "religious" principle about the fact that the sin of homosexuality is no different than the lust in his groin for other women and he should not throw stones since we are all sinners! Same goes for your Bible Club. I shut my brother up about homosexuality when I pointed out all sins and asked doesn't God say all sins are equal to each other? "...with like-minded people one cannot discuss. With like-minded people one can only participate in a church service, and you know how I feel about church services." Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Apr 16, 2004, 06:21 pm	#4 (permalink) (top)
Catch 22 Igneous Magma Posts: 374	hehe my advice to you is to ask for a debate with these religious assholes. If that doesn't work than I suggest all out guerilla war. Blitz these guys with media attention, leaflets, you name it. Get the entire town roiled in this thing until you can solve it. and if all else fails kick the principal in the nuts. When machines and computers, profit motives and property rights are considered more important than people, the giant triplets of racism, militarism and economic exploitation are incapable of being conquered Martin Luther King Jr.

Apr 17, 2004, 11:00 am	#6 (permalink) (top)
Mozart1220 Igneous Magma Posts: 687	In Utah, there was a club sort of like yours. The kids discussed their problems and how to deal with them. They discovered they were not as alone as they thought. Many straight kids attended as a show of support. Some backward thinking parents and students (Mormons of course) petitioned and the club was shut down. The kids argued that it was no different than the chess club or the French club or any ither "interest group" that met on the campus. The school realised they had to be fair. If they allowed other clubs to meet they HAD to allow the Gay/lesbian club to meet as well. Forward thinking right? Wrong! They banned ALL clubs on the school campus. Now the gay kids are perscuted even more for getting all the other clubs banned. You gotta love bigots. Big Jr is watching you!

Apr 18, 2004, 06:08 am	#8 (permalink) (top)
Mia Retired Posts: 7,312	Fifi, that is really great what you did and I hope you keep it up. Too few people are willing to put their necks out for someone else. Kudos and good luck! "...with like-minded people one cannot discuss. With like-minded people one can only participate in a church service, and you know how I feel about church services." Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Apr 16, 2004, 06:04 pm	#3 (permalink) (top)
Suburbanite BANNED Location: Los Angeles Posts: 3,203	Do you live in Texas?

Apr 16, 2004, 07:16 pm	#5 (permalink) (top)
Giancarlo Guest Posts: n/a	FIFI, I know where you stand at. Ever live in a Latin American country and being gay? Well I have. The crap I put up with... well my parents moved around, working for the US Department of State... and that's how it goes. Homophobia is everywhere, but far worse in Latin America. You definitely must start a blitzkrieg of media attention, leaflets, posters, etc (as Catch 22 mentioned) to bring more awareness. I'm an 18 year old gay guy, who is in College now, but when in high school I had to put up with a lot of crap and there was no GSA. This is very noble of you and I wish the best of luck for you. I can't stand religious fundamentalists. I tell them: I'm atheist, gay and I don't want to hear quotes out of the bible or about your god. It is not part of my life. I always thought Oregon was relatively non-homophobic.. isn't Portland like that? Well that principle could be taken to court if you really wanted to and you could legally force the school adminstration to accept your GSA club. That's as a very last resort.

Apr 17, 2004, 11:57 pm	#7 (permalink) (top)
Giancarlo Guest Posts: n/a	Well arrogant bigots are everywhere. I had to put up with them throughout high school and they won't disappear. Maybe education will help them see the errors of their actions and bigotry, but I'm not at all optimistic. But at least having a support group will encourage those who do not anything to help or hurt the situation to be supportive of gay and lesbian students. The current group I'm part of: CAl State Northridge GLBT Alliance

Apr 18, 2004, 11:53 am	#9 (permalink) (top)
ConservativeX Igneous Magma Posts: 259	[quote=Giancarlo,]Well arrogant bigots are everywhere. I had to put up with them throughout high school and they won't disappear.[quote] Giancarlo, is there ANY sexual preference that you find morally wrong? ANY? The foundation of the Constitution is laid on the 10th Amendment. To take a single step beyond is to take possession of a boundless field of power, no longer susceptible of any definition - JEFFERSON

Apr 18, 2004, 11:55 am	#10 (permalink) (top)
ConservativeX Igneous Magma Posts: 259	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (FIFI,) After his coming out my friend was treated brutially. I am talking broken bone beatings, random death notes, exclusion in classes (mostly P.E.) even signs against all "sinning homo's" was posted by our Bible Club around the school. This went on for all of his sophmore, and the remander of his freshman year. School administraters were little help, since they never caught anyone unless my guy-friend could Identify them, and we realized that our health center and counsilers were unequipped, and ill-informed/prepared to answer or help homosexual students.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Except for the beatings and the death threats (which I condemn), the rest is acceptable. You can't FORCE someone to accept you and I hope that you stand up for religious people's rights to free press and speech. </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (FIFI,) Are we wrong for promoting tolerence, information and comfort to my peers who are different??<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> In your promotion of "tolerance", how do you refer to people with religious beliefs that say homosexuality is a sin? Do you promote tolerance for them as well, or just your viewpoint? The foundation of the Constitution is laid on the 10th Amendment. To take a single step beyond is to take possession of a boundless field of power, no longer susceptible of any definition - JEFFERSON

Apr 18, 2004, 03:23 pm	#11 (permalink) (top)
SVMc Lazy Sniper Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 513	Fifi - Congratulations on founding such as progressive tolerant group in your high school, showing mutual support in incredibly important for all people of any persuasion. Here is the link for the University of Oregon's Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgendered support services and educational program, if you contact them they will be able to give you some help and support in keeping your student group alive. LGBT Oregon Also Catch-22 is correct get some media attention on this immediately. There is nothing like a bright light to make bigots crawl back under the rock they came from. Originally Posted by ConservativeX </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by In your promotion of "tolerance", how do you refer to people with religious beliefs that say homosexuality is a sin? <hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Tolerance of intolerance is not tolerance, nor should it be expected. If someone disagrees with homosexuality, they do not have to participate in a homosexual relationship, no one will force them to. They will not be forced to view gay pornography or attend social functions at gay clubs. They can have their religious opinions and preach them if they want to, however when it comes to denying rights to people based on sexual orientation, such as shutting down the Gay Straight Alliance and not the Students Against Drunk Driving, or the Youth Bible Club (both of which are also morally based student activity clubs) then no, there should be no tolerance of discrimination. Capitalism is: Man exploiting man. Socialism is the other way around.

Apr 18, 2004, 03:28 pm	#12 (permalink) (top)
Giancarlo Guest Posts: n/a	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (ConservativeX,) Giancarlo, is there ANY sexual preference that you find morally wrong? ANY?<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> yawn Anything else you want to ask homophobe? I think heterosexuality or homosexuality are not wrong. And it is not a preference, it is an orientation. </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by Except for the beatings and the death threats (which I condemn), the rest is acceptable. You can't FORCE someone to accept you and I hope that you stand up for religious people's rights to free press and speech. <hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> No, none of it is acceptable. You can't harass people and call them "faggots" and shit for their sexual orientation. You just can't harass people, period. Damn you, conservativex, you shouldn't be in this thread.

Apr 18, 2004, 03:30 pm	#13 (permalink) (top)
dotcoma Volcanic Erupter Posts: 3,154	I'm not a homophobe. I just can't get over the whole poop thing...

Apr 18, 2004, 03:36 pm	#14 (permalink) (top)
SVMc Lazy Sniper Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 513	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by I'm not a homophobe. I just can't get over the whole poop thing... <hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> That's not a homosexual thing, that's an anal sex thing and quite common in heterosexual sex as well.... Fortunately regardless of sexual orientation you don't have to do it if you don't like it. Capitalism is: Man exploiting man. Socialism is the other way around.

Apr 18, 2004, 03:48 pm	#15 (permalink) (top)
Giancarlo Guest Posts: n/a	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (roxdog,) I'm not a homophobe. I just can't get over the whole poop thing...<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> I'm gay and I don't do that.... not turned on by it.

Apr 18, 2004, 04:24 pm	#16 (permalink) (top)
Suburbanite BANNED Location: Los Angeles Posts: 3,203	Fifi? Texas?

Apr 18, 2004, 10:18 pm	#19 (permalink) (top)
Mozart1220 Igneous Magma Posts: 687	I find it funny that there are gay people even among conservative Republicans. I read in the paper today that they are very offended by resident Bush's attitude towards smae sex marraige and homosexuality in general. It seems that thre are about a million more Republicans who WON'T be voting for Jr. this November. Big Jr is watching you!

Apr 18, 2004, 10:20 pm	#20 (permalink) (top)
ConservativeX Igneous Magma Posts: 259	Most people who are politically aware are not single-issue voters. There are issues which resonate strongly with various groups, but most people who are political in nature don't respond to just one issue. For instance, I am Pro-Life; if John Kerry were Pro-Life and GW was Pro-Choice, but everything else was the same, I still wouldn't vote for Kerry. The foundation of the Constitution is laid on the 10th Amendment. To take a single step beyond is to take possession of a boundless field of power, no longer susceptible of any definition - JEFFERSON