Self-Control as rare as Common Sense?

[Quismo]

While America has built its foundation upon the notion of freedom, along with this comes the imperativeness of having self-control. Americans seem to be apt to over-indulgence and look towards external solutions to this problem via therapy, religion, surgery, etc... when in reality the answer resides in a simple word: Self-Control.

Common sense and self-control also go hand in hand. Obesity is not caused by genetic disorders or a psychological imbalance raising the frequency of hunger pangs. Plain and simple if you frequently eat fast/fried food, neglect minimal amounts of exercise, and harbor other lethargic tendencies the condition of your health will quickly deteriorate. I am not a doctor or health professional, but merely come to these conclusions by simple observation, cause and effect, and common sense. Although, millions this year will go out and buy books and magazines that produce multiple variations of what I just said.

This becomes a greater problem when the government and other higher ups begin to police this self-control into our minds.

The deal between the American Heart Association and the beverage industry, brokered by the former President Bill Clinton, will allow only unsweetened juice, low-fat milk and water in elementary and middle school vending machines and cafeterias. Low-calorie and sports drinks will still be available in high schools.

And while most parents are in praise of this movement, it only masks the fact that the parents of these fat kids are negecting their duties to embed within the child a degree of self-control.

Mr Clinton, who has suffered weight problems and had a heart bypass operation since leaving the White House, said: “This is a bold step forward in the struggle to help 35 million young people lead healthier lives. This one policy can add years and years and years to the lives of a very large number of young people.”

During my senior year in high school I remember when the coke machines were removed and how highly pissed I was that I could not enjoy a carbonated drink during lunch because some fat fuck needed to have one during every meal, snack, and interval inbetween.

How do you feel about the regulation, not only of soft drinks and foods, but of self-control in general? Is this a progress in our society or a set back allowing the government to furthur control our personal lives?

The rest of the article can be read here: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...164075,00.html

[tman_ndsu08]

In general, the more the government can regulate your life, the better off they will be.

You're absolutely right for questioning the government's repeated attempts to run your life.

[Milton Bradley]

People are conditioned to be weak ( and, weak minded ) by the Nanny State that hopes to control them.

[brien]

Quote by: Quismo While America has built its foundation upon the notion of freedom, along with this comes the imperativeness of having self-control. Americans seem to be apt to over-indulgence and look towards external solutions to this problem via therapy, religion, surgery, etc... when in reality the answer resides in a simple word: Self-Control. Common sense and self-control also go hand in hand. Obesity is not caused by genetic disorders or a psychological imbalance raising the frequency of hunger pangs. Plain and simple if you frequently eat fast/fried food, neglect minimal amounts of exercise, and harbor other lethargic tendencies the condition of your health will quickly deteriorate. I am not a doctor or health professional, but merely come to these conclusions by simple observation, cause and effect, and common sense. Although, millions this year will go out and buy books and magazines that produce multiple variations of what I just said. This becomes a greater problem when the government and other higher ups begin to police this self-control into our minds. And while most parents are in praise of this movement, it only masks the fact that the parents of these fat kids are negecting their duties to embed within the child a degree of self-control. During my senior year in high school I remember when the coke machines were removed and how highly pissed I was that I could not enjoy a carbonated drink during lunch because some fat fuck needed to have one during every meal, snack, and interval inbetween. How do you feel about the regulation, not only of soft drinks and foods, but of self-control in general? Is this a progress in our society or a set back allowing the government to furthur control our personal lives? The rest of the article can be read here: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...164075,00.html

I mostly tend to agree with your position except that you should understand that not ALL obese people are overweight due to eating habits. There are medical conditions which require medications that can increase weight even though the patient is consuming less caloric intake than before the medication was induced. I have seen this in cancer patients on hormone therapy. I have seen this in patients with Psychological disorders taking Lithium causing weight gain as well. So please be careful when you indict "some fat fuck" before you know exactly why someone may be obese.

[Zhavric]

Quote by: Milton Bradley People are conditioned to be weak ( and, weak minded ) by the Nanny State that hopes to control them.

Yeah... ask some homeless guy how coddled and nannied he feels. If you can't find one, come to Ohio. We have plenty.

No, we do have self-control and we do have common sense, but we also have 21st century ADVERTISING.

Take a look at the advertising that you watch. I mean REALLY look at it. The message isn't subliminal anymore. It's right there, reprogramming you and your kids to think differently.

Advertising is all about memes and abusing memes. Think about how many commercials use sex to sell products that have absolutely nothing to do with dating / relationships / sex. Think about commercials that target kids. I saw a cool-aid commerical the other day that looked more like an advertisement for a water-slide park than a beverage commercial.

So, I don't believe it's a matter of common sense. It's a matter of pervasive advertising. Even most things that are advertised as being healthy aren't. How many sugar cereals are touted as "part of this complete breakfast"?

What's the answer? Understand more about memes and how advertising abuses them. Understand more about health. Understand more about what you put into your body and why.

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: Zhavric Yeah... ask some homeless guy how coddled and nannied he feels. If you can't find one, come to Ohio. We have plenty.

I'm in Ohio Province, the Corporate Republic, it's right over there <------- under my name.

Quote by: Zhavric No, we do have self-control and we do have common sense, but we also have 21st century ADVERTISING. Take a look at the advertising that you watch. I mean REALLY look at it. The message isn't subliminal anymore. It's right there, reprogramming you and your kids to think differently. Advertising is all about memes and abusing memes. Think about how many commercials use sex to sell products that have absolutely nothing to do with dating / relationships / sex. Think about commercials that target kids. I saw a cool-aid commerical the other day that looked more like an advertisement for a water-slide park than a beverage commercial. So, I don't believe it's a matter of common sense. It's a matter of pervasive advertising. Even most things that are advertised as being healthy aren't. How many sugar cereals are touted as "part of this complete breakfast"? What's the answer? Understand more about memes and how advertising abuses them. Understand more about health. Understand more about what you put into your body and why.

I have to agree for the most part.


An interesting observation about that Kool-Aid commercial you mention.


The Kool-Aid pitcher has never had clothing on before this last commercial, yet in this most recent incarnation he is wearing desert camouflage fatigues like the troops in Iraq wear in combat.

[bishop]

Quote by: quismo And while most parents are in praise of this movement, it only masks the fact that the parents of these fat kids are negecting their duties to embed within the child a degree of self-control.

suppose a parent gives their child some money to buy lunch at school - rather than brown bag it.. and suppose the parent doesn't want their child to drink unhealthy soda.. how is the parent supposed to ensure that their child does, in fact, buy something healthy instead of soda?

Quote by: quismo How do you feel about the regulation, not only of soft drinks and foods, but of self-control in general? Is this a progress in our society or a set back allowing the government to furthur control our personal lives?

public schools were about as horrible an example as you can give - because they're public institutions. the state can regulate its own institutions, just like you can regulate behavior inside your own home (like forcing people to take their shoes off before walking on the carpet for example).

the government doesn't prevent you from going to mcd's every day, for every meal.. it doesn't prevent you from buying a case of beer/day.. it doesn't prevent you from smoking a carton of cigarettes a day. etc..

my state recently passed regulations impacting purchases of nyquil and sudafed (and their generic alternatives)... now when you want to buy them, you have to fill out some sort of application and provide certain information. the reason behind this is because private meth labs use these products to make their vile drugs.. this example doesn't seem to be one of self-control or the lack thereof - it seems to be centered more around public health/safety. i personally don't agree with the law, but this particular regulation has nothing to do with self-control..

and, i can't think of many instances where the government does regulate what we can buy (aside from drugs). do you have any better examples?

[brien]

Quote by: Zhavric Yeah... ask some homeless guy how coddled and nannied he feels. If you can't find one, come to Ohio. We have plenty. No, we do have self-control and we do have common sense, but we also have 21st century ADVERTISING. Take a look at the advertising that you watch. I mean REALLY look at it. The message isn't subliminal anymore. It's right there, reprogramming you and your kids to think differently. Advertising is all about memes and abusing memes. Think about how many commercials use sex to sell products that have absolutely nothing to do with dating / relationships / sex. Think about commercials that target kids. I saw a cool-aid commerical the other day that looked more like an advertisement for a water-slide park than a beverage commercial. So, I don't believe it's a matter of common sense. It's a matter of pervasive advertising. Even most things that are advertised as being healthy aren't. How many sugar cereals are touted as "part of this complete breakfast"? What's the answer? Understand more about memes and how advertising abuses them. Understand more about health. Understand more about what you put into your body and why.

I agree that advertising is powerful. Your post seems to assume that people mostly get their adverstising from the TV Maybe so. If this is true, then perhaps the control lies with the remote.

In the print media, one usually scans. In the radio medium, one now has satellite alternative.

So there are ways to insulate oneself from the power of advertising. Myself, I use Consumer reports and referrals. I consider advertisng for what it is; a shameless self promotion not in my best interest.

As for homeless people, well they have always been around but when I was a kid we called them hobos, tramps and bums. Maybe many are homeless by choice? Others that aren't homeless by choice can get the help they seek but many don't want the strings that come attached to that help. Fine. We all have choices in life. Make them and live with them.

[samsara15]

It was lack of self-contol that doomed and discredited the hippies. That, along with basic Christian morality that thinks there's basically something wrong with people enjoying life too much.

[Kite]

I admit that I have very little self control. I have trouble getting myself to do work outside of school, and I have trouble getting myself to stop playing videogames and go outside. However, in the last few months I seem to have gotten better at these things, probably because I realized that if I do not do my work, I will not graduate, and I will not go to college. This in turn motivated me to get the work done. Self control is about knowing when to stop, and knowing when to go. On saturday, I did not use my self control, and I played one videogame for 14 hours, stopping only to eat, go to the bathroom, and mow the lawn. At the end of the day I was tired and my ass hurt. I thought, hmm, that was a bad idea, I won't do that again. This is how we control ourselves.

[Zhavric]

Quote by: brien I agree that advertising is powerful. Your post seems to assume that people mostly get their adverstising from the TV Maybe so. If this is true, then perhaps the control lies with the remote. In the print media, one usually scans. In the radio medium, one now has satellite alternative. So there are ways to insulate oneself from the power of advertising. Myself, I use Consumer reports and referrals. I consider advertisng for what it is; a shameless self promotion not in my best interest.

Advertising that targets adults is bad, but it's nowhere near as sinister or as effective as advertising that targets children.

More information can be found at the website for "Campaign For A Commercial-Free Childhood"

• Children see about 40,000 advertisements a year on TV alone, a figure that does not include product placement.5

• Children see advertisements on the Internet, at the movies, on school buses, in their classrooms and cafeterias.

• Almost every major media program for children has a line of licensed merchandise used to sell fast-food, breakfast cereals, snacks and candy.

• Many toys, such as Coca-Cola Barbie and McDonald’s Play-Doh are actually
advertisements for junk food.

• In their effort to establish cradle-to-grave brand loyalty, marketers even target babies through licensed toys and accessories featuring media characters.

• Until the age of about 8 children do not understand advertising’s persuasive intent.

• Very young children can’t distinguish between commercials and program content; even older children sometimes fail to recognize product placement as advertising.

• Marketers often use older children’s desire to fit in with their peers and tendency to rebel against authority figures as selling points for their products. A recent Pepsi ad celebrated teens who had been arrested for downloading music illegally.

Maybe many are homeless by choice?

Maybe you want someone to steel all your money and kick you out of your house? Maybe you'd prefer to eat garbage than regular food. Maybe you'd prefer to not have access to health care and watch your body rot away? Maybe you'd prefer to be ignored by all of society even when you need help? Maybe you'd prefer to be routinely abused? Maybe you'd prefer to smell like a toilet 24/7 and live in your own filth?

Sounds great, eh? Like to sign up?

[Zhavric]

Quote by: Kite I admit that I have very little self control. I have trouble getting myself to do work outside of school, and I have trouble getting myself to stop playing videogames and go outside. However, in the last few months I seem to have gotten better at these things, probably because I realized that if I do not do my work, I will not graduate, and I will not go to college. This in turn motivated me to get the work done. Self control is about knowing when to stop, and knowing when to go. On saturday, I did not use my self control, and I played one videogame for 14 hours, stopping only to eat, go to the bathroom, and mow the lawn. At the end of the day I was tired and my ass hurt. I thought, hmm, that was a bad idea, I won't do that again. This is how we control ourselves.

You're talking about motivation. This is a sub-set of self control.

[Kite]

I like to think of it more as a methodology of self-control, but it is as you say. Motivation is only a part of the whole system of controling ourselves.

[brien]

Quote by: Zhavric Advertising that targets adults is bad, but it's nowhere near as sinister or as effective as advertising that targets children. More information can be found at the website for "Campaign For A Commercial-Free Childhood" • Children see about 40,000 advertisements a year on TV alone, a figure that does not include product placement.5 • Children see advertisements on the Internet, at the movies, on school buses, in their classrooms and cafeterias. • Almost every major media program for children has a line of licensed merchandise used to sell fast-food, breakfast cereals, snacks and candy. • Many toys, such as Coca-Cola Barbie and McDonald’s Play-Doh are actually advertisements for junk food. • In their effort to establish cradle-to-grave brand loyalty, marketers even target babies through licensed toys and accessories featuring media characters. • Until the age of about 8 children do not understand advertising’s persuasive intent. • Very young children can’t distinguish between commercials and program content; even older children sometimes fail to recognize product placement as advertising. • Marketers often use older children’s desire to fit in with their peers and tendency to rebel against authority figures as selling points for their products. A recent Pepsi ad celebrated teens who had been arrested for downloading music illegally. Maybe you want someone to steel all your money and kick you out of your house? Maybe you'd prefer to eat garbage than regular food. Maybe you'd prefer to not have access to health care and watch your body rot away? Maybe you'd prefer to be ignored by all of society even when you need help? Maybe you'd prefer to be routinely abused? Maybe you'd prefer to smell like a toilet 24/7 and live in your own filth? Sounds great, eh? Like to sign up?

As for your reference to adverstising and children: It is called parental control. Plain and simple.

As for your reference to the homeless, your rhetoric aimed at me makes no sense at all. :rolleyes: We have "homeless" people in Norwich CT. A very close friend of mine is a Norwich Police officer. He knows almost everyone one of the "homeless". We offer them shelter and they refuse only to set up shanties along the river. We offer them hot meals which, occasionally, they take them. We offer them the opportunity of an alternative lifestyle that will put them on the path to a new life and we offer them job training. Many refuse. We offer them substance abuse counselling, and they refuse it. What do you suggest? And better yet, what do YOU do to help people in need?

[Zhavric]

Quote by: brien As for your reference to adverstising and children: It is called parental control. Plain and simple.

Okay.

Don't let your kids watch television commercials and filter out anything with product placement. If you don't, then you have to resist the "nag factor". You'll also have to explain to your kid why they can't have product X when every other kid has product X.

Do the same thing for the internet, magazines, books, movies, billbaords, and all other media.

Parental control is certainly part of the answer, but it's not the entire answer. If someone ran up to your kid while they were on a playground and started telling them all about the wonders of product X, do you think you're ONLY reaction would be to take your kid away? Most parents would tell the person to shut the hell up and get away from their kid.

As for your reference to the homeless, your rhetoric aimed at me makes no sense at all. :rolleyes: We have "homeless" people in Norwich CT. A very close friend of mine is a Norwich Police officer. He knows almost everyone one of the "homeless". We offer them shelter and they refuse only to set up shanties along the river. We offer them hot meals which, occasionally, they take them. We offer them the opportunity of an alternative lifestyle that will put them on the path to a new life and we offer them job training. Many refuse. We offer them substance abuse counselling, and they refuse it. What do you suggest? And better yet, what do YOU do to help people in need?

1) What you're offering them isn't the answer and many times is part of the problem.

2) A HUGE percentage of homeless are mentally disturbed or challenged.

3) You're not offering them house and jobs. You're offering them a set of rules that they think suck and a path that they perceive leads nowhere.

As far as what I do to help the homeless? Nothing. They can all rot for all I care. In fact, I spend a good deal of time making people houseless.

[brien]

Quote by: Zhavric Okay. Don't let your kids watch television commercials and filter out anything with product placement. If you don't, then you have to resist the "nag factor". You'll also have to explain to your kid why they can't have product X when every other kid has product X. Do the same thing for the internet, magazines, books, movies, billbaords, and all other media. Parental control is certainly part of the answer, but it's not the entire answer. If someone ran up to your kid while they were on a playground and started telling them all about the wonders of product X, do you think you're ONLY reaction would be to take your kid away? Most parents would tell the person to shut the hell up and get away from their kid. 1) What you're offering them isn't the answer and many times is part of the problem. 2) A HUGE percentage of homeless are mentally disturbed or challenged. 3) You're not offering them house and jobs. You're offering them a set of rules that they think suck and a path that they perceive leads nowhere. As far as what I do to help the homeless? Nothing. They can all rot for all I care. In fact, I spend a good deal of time making people houseless.

I don't have all the answers for ad media influence upon children but parents have to be the first line of defense. Of course parents can't control what happens at the schools and they will have to make an extra effort to explain to their children about the products tha they discover through their peers.

As for the homeless. You seem to forget that society OWES them NOTHING. Just because we offer them the proper way to help themselves, and they reject it, doesn't make it "not the right answer." They make the choices and sometimes they make the wrong choices but it is their choice. We understand that many are mentally disturbed or emotionally and physically challanged but we have programs that are tailored to these needs. We can only offer the structured programs that we know work to help these people. Otherwise they chooose to be on their own. Forced hospitalization or incarceration is not an option unless they violate the law.

nb: If you aren't part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

[Strange Dreamer]

It is my perception that common sense and self-control are not only becoming less common, but people are actually being encouraged to abandon such concepts altogether by certain sources.

Common sense, self-control, willpower, and let me throw in wisdom too. They all take an effort to learn, develope and maintain just like a physical muscle. Therefore, the less it is used then weaker it becomes.

Not unlike water I believe people have a tendency to follow the path of least resistance/effort until they are presented with a good enough reason to do otherwise. That is why it is critical to find a way to inspire a positive reaction toward developing those skills. Toward that end it is really beneficial to have some source of information (person/book/etc.) to help you get going in the right direction, but in the end it really takes a conscious choice to pursue.