Tolerance hurts, too.

[belverron]

Quote by: WillSergent I don't hate gay people. I do not agree with their lifestyle. In fact, I have several gay people that are friends. They know how I stand.

We hear this all of the time, but which hurts more, the hatred that you dismiss or the friend who doesn't accept you for who you are? I know that for me it is the latter. It's that kind of silliness that tears people apart. When I asked my step-mother to vote against the amendment, and she said she didn't know how she felt about that ....

It's all a bunch of bullshit; gay people aren't really any different. It's a few verses in the Bible, and we don't ignore so few that someone will notice a few more on that list. Antiquated, groundless tradition, it is. It only hurts.

Think about how your friends feel when you tell them about your principles. Is that really what your god wants? That is no god I would believe in.

[Discordia]

We hear this all of the time, but which hurts more, the hatred that you dismiss or the friend who doesn't accept you for who you are? I know that for me it is the latter. It's that kind of silliness that tears people apart. When I asked my step-mother to vote against the amendment, and she said she didn't know how she felt about that ....

I think it is a lot to ask that people who have not had our experiences and continual struggles to understand our viewpoint, or even to accept our chosen lifestyle. There are many aspects of life that are nearly impossible for an individual to understand, for we are all raised underneath varying circumstances. We all have pressure points and weaknesses. That being said, though it hurts when the people close to us do not approve of our lifestyles, we must keep in mind that, in turn, we often do not approve of theirs. Its silly to try and force our opinions on others. I feel that its to be commended when anyone who does not approve of a certain behavior pushes this attitude aside and does not judge another person based on it.

[Zhavric]

As an aside, if you want to REALLY look ignorant in front of a minority, utter the following: "I don't hate (insert name of minority). Some of my best friends are (insert name of minority)." Works like a charm with blacks, latinos, gays and many more...

[twoanickel]

Quote by: Zhavric As an aside, if you want to REALLY look ignorant in front of a minority, utter the following: "I don't hate (insert name of minority). Some of my best friends are (insert name of minority)." Works like a charm with blacks, latinos, gays and many more...

Yes, in today's world people are not allowed to have principles that offend anyone, no matter how perverse their culture.

[belverron]

The label of perversity can be so damned arbitrary!

[belverron]

Quote by: Discordia That being said, though it hurts when the people close to us do not approve of our lifestyles, we must keep in mind that, in turn, we often do not approve of theirs. Its silly to try and force our opinions on others. I feel that its to be commended when anyone who does not approve of a certain behavior pushes this attitude aside and does not judge another person based on it.

That's all well and good when at least I can understand their reasoning. There is no reasoning here, and no, that's not an invitation to pull out statistics from conservative research organizations. There is only faith, and that I do not understand. Not the way so many people practice it. They sell their souls to institutions to safeguard them from the devil! What's the point?

[underbear1]

You can LOSE the term "lifestyles", this is people's LIVES, and those that won't treat you as equal..........F*CK EM!

[twoanickel]

Principles matter--not only to individuals, but to the welfare of a nation; and those principles should never be abandoned to please those who despise those principles. Neither should those who oppose moral principles be allowed to cast the issue as it it were about hating or fearing others because it is not about hatred or fear. It is about the right of principled people to defend their national culture.

[bugsbunny04]

Quote by: belverron We hear this all of the time, but which hurts more, the hatred that you dismiss or the friend who doesn't accept you for who you are? I know that for me it is the latter. It's that kind of silliness that tears people apart. When I asked my step-mother to vote against the amendment, and she said she didn't know how she felt about that .... It's all a bunch of bullshit; gay people aren't really any different. It's a few verses in the Bible, and we don't ignore so few that someone will notice a few more on that list. Antiquated, groundless tradition, it is. It only hurts. Think about how your friends feel when you tell them about your principles. Is that really what your god wants? That is no god I would believe in.

I just fail to see how a man could not like vagina. I think there is something a little weird about a man that doesnt just love the feel of a nice, hot, creamy...apple pie I mean, seriously, how could you possibly think another man is better than sinking your teeth into sweet, juicy peach . I could go on, but...

Buts its all good. There are people who dont like beers and cheese burgers. I dont really understand that shit either, but I dont judge them for it.

[underbear1]

Some folks like pie and others prefer a big sausage ,,,,,,,,,,that's why they make red cars and blue cars.

[Zhavric]

Quote by: twoanickel Yes, in today's world people are not allowed to have principles that offend anyone, no matter how perverse their culture.

I've read two of your posts today where you've attempted to reply to something I've stated. Both times, you failed utterly to address the statements I've made.

Please improve, stay on-topic or don't reply to me.

What I stated has nothing to do with having principles. I simply pointed out that stating one has friends of a minority causes one to appear ignorant to that minority. This is relevant to the thread as the original poster clearly was unaware of this phenomenon.

Besides precipitating this post by me, what did your post add to this thread? Please help me understand how it's not spam.

[Zhavric]

Quote by: twoanickel Principles matter--not only to individuals, but to the welfare of a nation; and those principles should never be abandoned to please those who despise those principles. Neither should those who oppose moral principles be allowed to cast the issue as it it were about hating or fearing others because it is not about hatred or fear. It is about the right of principled people to defend their national culture.

I've never seen a Christian adequately jutify the hypocracy of claiming to be an American (who acknowledges that America has no state religion, isn't founded on Christian principles and allows the worship of any non-Christian religion) and right wing Christianity (which claims that Christian dogma should, on a cultural level, rule supreme with help from legislation).

Please explain to us why you disagree with / hate the Constitution.

[Zhavric]

Quote by: bugsbunny04 I just fail to see how a man could not like vagina. I think there is something a little weird about a man that doesnt just love the feel of a nice, hot, creamy...apple pie I mean, seriously, how could you possibly think another man is better than sinking your teeth into sweet, juicy peach . I could go on, but...

Why do you like women? Think very carefully about this question.

Did, in your youth, did you consciously decide to choose to like one gender over the other? Or was it instead the case that your body reacted in a certain pleasing way from stimuli originating from the opposite gender?

You're mind followed along with the impulses it received from your body. Not the other way around.

Is it really that inconceivable to you that some people receive stimuli from their body that is pleasing when it originates from the same gender?

Implying that a gay person chooses to be gay is a little like me implying that you have the ability to choose to like your own gender: It's ridiculous. Sure, you could be in a situation like prison and force your body into arousal, but you can only control your reactions.

You have no control over how your body initially feels.

Buts its all good. There are people who dont like beers and cheese burgers. I dont really understand that shit either, but I dont judge them for it.

I commend your tolerance.

[belverron]

Quote by: twoanickel Principles matter--not only to individuals, but to the welfare of a nation; and those principles should never be abandoned to please those who despise those principles. Neither should those who oppose moral principles be allowed to cast the issue as it it were about hating or fearing others because it is not about hatred or fear. It is about the right of principled people to defend their national culture.

My contention is with the arbitrariness of the principles, not principles in general.

[bugsbunny04]

Quote by: Zhavric Why do you like women? Think very carefully about this question.

I like the way the way a good woman bombards my senses. A good specimen of the female gender form is pleasing to sight, smell, feel, taste and ear, in a way that initiates both emotional and physical responses.

Did, in your youth, did you consciously decide to choose to like one gender over the other? Or was it instead the case that your body reacted in a certain pleasing way from stimuli originating from the opposite gender?

My body reacted from stimuli associated with feminine form and biology. Although, some of those stimuli could conceavably be mimiced by a male, it couldnt be done without masking or lacking masculinity. Even then certain stimuli are totally unique to the female body.

You're mind followed along with the impulses it received from your body. Not the other way around.

I dont think my mind has anything to do with it.

Is it really that inconceivable to you that some people receive stimuli from their body that is pleasing when it originates from the same gender?

Not really, I just think it ranks up there with guys who like fat chicks, or women who like guys that wear make up and carry "man bags", or people who are vegetarians...I dont really understand, buts its not something I necessarily judge someone on.

Implying that a gay person chooses to be gay is a little like me implying that you have the ability to choose to like your own gender: It's ridiculous. Sure, you could be in a situation like prison and force your body into arousal, but you can only control your reactions. You have no control over how your body initially feels.

I can go along with that.

[nookiewookie]

"I don't hate gay people. I do not agree with their lifestyle. In fact, I have several gay people that are friends. They know how I stand."

A quick question before i post anything else here. Do we interpret the quote above to mean that this person finds homosexuality disagreeable, or that they do not approve of the lifestyle?

[Jack]

It would depend on what the person meant by "lifestyle".
Usually, they can't even articulate what they mean by "lifestyle".
I go to work 5 days a week and on weekends mow the lawn, do laundry, read, or run errands. At night I do my computer stuff and go to bed, alone...just as I have for over 15 years.
Is that a gay lifestyle? A straight lifestyle? Much of a life??? I digress.

I suspect that they really mean any public display of gayness, based on clichès and misconceptions. They don't want to see two men or two women holding hands, kissing, being affectionate in any manner. Instead of enjoying the obvious sign of affection they choose to be offended. They also object to swishy males, lisps, effeminate men, masculine women. They probably also object to men being polite, really listening when women speak, dressing well and being groomed.

[Jack]

I like the way the way a good woman bombards my senses. A good specimen of the female gender form is pleasing to sight, smell, feel, taste and ear, in a way that initiates both emotional and physical responses.

My body reacted from stimuli associated with feminine form and biology. Although, some of those stimuli could conceavably be mimiced by a male, it couldnt be done without masking or lacking masculinity. Even then certain stimuli are totally unique to the female body.

It should be easy enough for you to imagine a straight woman saying something similar about men. Now imagine that a gay man thinks those same things about men, just like a straight woman does. We don't imagine men as women. We appreciate that which makes men men (or at least some of us do...I can't speak for everyone).

[nookiewookie]

Quote by: Isherwood I suspect that they really mean any public display of gayness, based on clichès and misconceptions. They don't want to see two men or two women holding hands, kissing, being affectionate in any manner. Instead of enjoying the obvious sign of affection they choose to be offended. They also object to swishy males, lisps, effeminate men, masculine women. They probably also object to men being polite, really listening when women speak, dressing well and being groomed.

ok, so they are offended by homosexuality in that they find it repulsive or disgusting or whatever. What's wrong with this? How can you condemn someone for the way they emotionally react to something? If they do not act on such reactions to homosexuality, what's the problem? (and yes, in this case telling a freind that you find their sexal preference repulsive is not right. It is comparable to me telling a freind of mine that I am repulsed by his crooked teeth).

[Dirty Name]

Never mind the enormous "moral" argument that Belverron dismisses as "bull****".

Substitute "gay people" with the word, "professional gamblers," "adrenaline junkies," or any other "lifestyle choice" that differs from the norm, and tell me if Belverron still has a point.

I contend he does not. We are free to have friends with whom we do not condone their behavior, and there is nothing "silly" or "hurtful" about it. My friend spends his free time bungee jumping and skydiving, and I don't believe in living life in that manner. I can express my disagreement with his decision to jump out of an airplane, yet still be friends with him.

This whole thread is just another attempt by a homosexual person to try to normalize aberrant behavior. Sorry, Belverron, I don't hate you at all. I just think you're wrong.