How do Atheists and Agnostics deal with death?

[LogicaLunatic]

Heh, there is no ultimate purpose without the supernatural.

I have, within me, the ability to love life, have purpose and be good without the need for anything supernatural. There are many, many others like me. That fact alone turns your one sentence argument into dust.

You on the other hand, require some guidance through this world that you can't find anywhere but within religion. Perhaps we were raised differently, or perhaps it's genetic. Who knows.

But, for this reason and this reason alone, I'm thankful that religion exists. Several Christians (and this might include you) believe that they are good specifically because they are christians. That their belief in God and God's belief in them guides them down the path of righteousness. That, without God's guidance, they wouldn't be able to be good. Given that, I'm thankful you all fear hell because I can't imagine how you'd behave if you didn't.

[Plasma Snake[D]]

YOU CANT GIVE PEOPLE TOO MUCH CREDIT WE ARE FAR FROM PERFECT. FORGIVE OUR SHORTCOMINGS! BLOW SOMETHING UP!

j/k but really I am terrified of death. the thought of dying... theres never an easy way out. I always thought of buying a gun so I can go painlessly. Ive seen a bunch of old people die before me, and it SUCKS. theres nothing glamorous about it, music WONT start playing out of thin air, and you WONT be seeing the face of god. is this TRUTH? no its just a bunch of symbols that your mind interprets.

[sergeant]

[QUOTE=sergeant]Re: Problems with my faith [Re: Arietis]
#129168 - 10/16/05 06:13 AM (203.59.240.4) Edit Reply Quote
interesting view into this world......Christians are not the only ones who hear voices from their God! Interesting voices talking to people......they must be crazy! :rolleyes:



I can understand where you are coming from too. I was the same - I'd find a religion and think - "this is the one" only to fall out of faith with it after a short period of time (mostly because the scientist in me - I started my degree in Physics - needing evidence too).

Luckily for me, I have evidence now. The Netjer physically speak to me. I either hear their voices or get images. I can't describe this adequetely to anyone - without them thinking I've gone nuts (which sometimes makes me question my path too). And unfortunately - unless you experience it for yourself, it ain't going to make much difference to you.

All I can suggest, is maybe you haven't found the right path yet, and you are to keep looking. Keep researching. This doesn't mean you can't remain here and make friends or not honour the Netjer, but keep researching and learning about other religions too - maybe one day the Gods of a religion will claim you - when you are ready - and you will have that evidence.

Just never give up on the desire to seek and learn.

Senebty
Iaityinepu.

--------------------



Sat Yinepu-Wepwawet Meryt Satet her Amun-Ra

[Son of Belial]

You're a Zorostroan?

[LetThereBe]

Man can only live in a very narrow range. The universe is huge and we do not have any technology that would even come close to covering an itsy bitsy part of it. If the envornment goes bad we are toast. We don't hibernate nor do we freeze well. We take a lot of energy to maintain even the most basic function.

Take bacteria on the other hand. The universe seems to have been made for them. They can live in a huge variety of environments. Deep undersea, on the highest mountains, in Antarctica, in boiling hot springs, even the cooling coils of nuclear reactors. And they can go into spore mode. Bacteria have been found that were over 350million years old and they were revived and were alive and kicking. They are very small. Do not need much energy and can live off a very large range of energy sources. They can survive hard vacuum indefinitely. They are certainly capable of catching a ride on fast moving intergalactic debris and in that time frame could hop from galaxy to galaxy. Something that we could never hope to do. In fact there is some speculation that life on the earth did not originate here. That it is the result of such intergalactic bacteria. Bacteria with the right conditions can live almost forever. They can rapidly mutate to better adapt to their environment. They are the most numerous life form on the planet by far. And there is not a life form on the planet that does not rely on one form or another of bacterial life to survive. In short they are far more successful at life than we are, much better adapted and much more important in the grand scheme of things than we are. And when we are long gone even to the point where this is not single large multi-celled organism in the universe there will be bacteria. Obviously god chosen creature. If is funny that god never mentions them. Perhaps god did not want us to know about them. Gee, I wonder why?

Starboy

Two things. First: Bacteria gain adaptability with the sacrifice of complexity. Second: Bacteria gain adaptability at the sacrifice of the individual.

[LetThereBe]

This planet is supportive of mankind, but the universe, actually anywhere but this one planet, is incredibly hostile humans. We will, for many centuries yet, have to haul our environment around with us if we ever leave here. We would never exist otherwise.

Just seems to increase the unlikelyhood that such a species could even develope. It sure is fortunate that such a planet so perfectly suited to us exists.

[LetThereBe]

I have, within me, the ability to love life, have purpose and be good without the need for anything supernatural. There are many, many others like me. That fact alone turns your one sentence argument into dust.

You on the other hand, require some guidance through this world that you can't find anywhere but within religion. Perhaps we were raised differently, or perhaps it's genetic. Who knows.

But, for this reason and this reason alone, I'm thankful that religion exists. Several Christians (and this might include you) believe that they are good specifically because they are christians. That their belief in God and God's belief in them guides them down the path of righteousness. That, without God's guidance, they wouldn't be able to be good. Given that, I'm thankful you all fear hell because I can't imagine how you'd behave if you didn't.

"Heh, there is no ultimate purpose without the supernatural."

The key word in that sentence is ultimate. If the universe is devoid of the supernatural you will die, and no good or hellenistic lifestyle will amount to anything. Any legacy you leave to human kind will be worth nothing, because humanity will not always be. When the last stars burn out, when entropy is at maximum, nothing you ever did will matter. At all.
Hence, without the supernatural, there is no ultimate purpose.

[Jack]

It sure is fortunate that such a planet so perfectly suited to us exists.

Yes, fortunate, and coincidental, too. You could say the same thing for trees, rabbits and moss. None could exist as we know them under different circumstances.

[brien]

I’m really curious how you deal with death......it would be so hard if I lost a child and had to think I would never look upon their face again. Therefore, it must be a very difficult situation far more worse than a Christian’s experience. :(

Sergeant: I have to deal with my mortality every day. I have a life threatening disease that could take me out soorer rather than later. So, I have already faced up to my own demise. So here are some of my thoughts:

I try to be the best person I can be everyday.

I always try to do what I think is right guided by my conscience.

I do not kill living things unless: They threaten my existence or my property. Like burgulars and theives in the first instance, and carpenter ants in the second.

I appreciate everyday I am alive whether the sun is shining or it is raining, snowing or I am working or playing.

I try to help every living thing in every instance I am able.

I am not sure about heaven or hell, as these are relative and subjective terms, so I am resigned to await the outcome from this life.

I am happy and thankful to be alive every day I awake.

I doubt I will notice my own death.



As for the death of others:

It is as sure as birth, so the only reason to become upset over death, is when it cheats the living by taking someone before their due.

I celebrate the lives of my dead family and friends for without them, I would be lesser of a man.



And Mark Twain wrote:

Let us endeavor to live that when we come to die, even the undertaker is sorry.

Pity is for the living, envy is for the dead.

[Son of Belial]

Yes, fortunate, and coincidental, too. You could say the same thing for trees, rabbits and moss. None could exist as we know them under different circumstances.

This sort of comment is only made when someone misunderstands evolution. The world isn't suited to us, we're suited to the world. Of course we "fit in" here... why would something evolve that couldn't live on the planet on which it did so? That's the whole point of evolution. Things that can't exist here... don't.

EDIT: I'm referring to the statement you commented on, not your comment.

[Plasma Snake[D]]

Its amazing right? how things grew exponentially. Who knows for sure but I think things grew exponentially cause life lives off other life period. So there had to be some spot on earth where everything started and grew "as a group" so to say. Think about it, if you time traveled to a time when no life existed on earth(and say the atmosphere was suitable) would you be able to eat anything?

[Scribbler1]

Scribbler1,

But, following that line of reasoning to it's logical end leads us to something none of us want. Since the government can't actually determine whether a person truely believes in something or not, anything could conceivably be dismissed as a matter of belief. Take the sexual cleansers in Africa. Women who lose a husband are convinced that they are contaminated by evil spirits and only sex with a sexual cleanser will free them. In my book that's rape. In fact, people who've done that here in the US have been convicted of rape.

Or how about the BS re-birthing techniques performed on children? Somtimes it's harmful and can be fatal. Are they off the hook because they 'believed' that it would work?

Of course they aren't, and this is irrelevant to my point. The whole argument is about faith, and not what you do in the name of it. Personal faith, as in YOUR belief in some supreme being is the issue as well as being able to exist after you die, and not how you interact with others.

The big question is, where is the line drawn? I think it should be drawn on the side of reason. If the 'seller' can't demonstrate that what they're 'selling' works, it should be considered fraud or at least have a disclaimer like the psychic hotlines that reads, 'for entertainment purposes only.'

As I was saying to Starboy, this is the part you will NEVER make fly with the faithful. The sellers are selling things that occur AFTER death and NOT what is in the here and now, and the believers have signed on to that. They KNOW all this stuff happens after you die so where is your proof it doesn't? That would be such an uphill battle I for one wouldn't even make the attempt. They don't bother me so more power to them.

To put it another way, religion in most of its forms has been around a LOT longer than you, me and Starboy. They have refined religion and its promises over a VERY long time PRECISELY so people like you can't go around punching holes in it.

You are outgunned, my friend. Hell, you can't even convince some people ELVIS is dead so how can you think you can convince people to abandon their vision of an afterlife and literally "sell" them nothing in return?

The type of faith being discussed is not hope. Faith, in the scope of this argument, is the belief in something for which there is no supporting evidence or the belief in something for which there is strong evidence to the contrary. I've looked in several dictionaries and can't find any that define faith as hope. I couldn't even find hope as a synonym for faith in the thesaurus.

If I ever equated faith with hope forgive me, because they are NOT the same. If you truly have faith you don't NEED "hope" because what happens after you die is spelled out for you. You don't "hope", you just assume XYZ is going to happen. "Hope" implies the possibility of failure, or not getting what you hope for. Not in this case.

Actually, it seems hope defies faith. Why would you 'hope' that what you have absolute faith in is true? Hope implies uncertainty. People 'hope' when they're uncertain about the future.

I have always believed this.

Hope creates purpose. Faith, as defined above, only leads to confusion, hurt and death.

Tell that to the people outside of Graceland. They are neither hurt nor confused.

And they don't think they will "die" as atheists do.