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Thread: Christ was real, History backs it up

  1. #13
    Igneous Magma orgaelin's Avatar
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    MerlinsByte,

    You said you believe in the divinity of Jesus, but to do so is to go against what the bible actually tells you. Allow me to clarify...

    I am going to quote from one the appendices in Laurence Gardner's new book, "The Magdalene Legacy" (p343-345)...

    How does the mortal figure of Jesus (the son of Mary and Joseph) reconcile with his Christian Church depiction as the divine son of God? Only the gospels of Matthew and Luke discuss Mary's conception and the birth of Jesus. Mark and John ignore the events.
    Although not discussing the Nativity as such, John 7:42 does comment regarding the ancestry of Jesus: 'Hath not the scripture said, that Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was.' In addition, St Paul's Epistle to the Romans 1:3-4 refers to 'Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; and declared to be the son of God'. Again, in Mark 10:47 and matthew 22:42 Jesus is called the 'son of David'. In Acts 2:30, Peter (referring to Kind David) calls Jesus the 'fruit of his loins, according to the flesh'.
    These entries, along with the male-line genealogical lists in Matthew and Luke, make it abundantly clear that Jesus was of straightforward human descent from Kind David. Over and above that, St Paul wrote that Jesus was 'declared' to be the son of God; while in the Annunciation sequence of Luke 1:35, it is similarly stated that jesus would be 'called' the son of God.
    The fact of Jesus' Davidic paternal descent is made even more apparent in Hebrew 7:14, which relates to his appointment in the high priestly Order of Melchizedek. From the time of Moses and Aaron, only the tribe of Levi had any automatic right to Isrealite priesthood. The tribe of Judah, which included David and his dynasty down to Joseph and Jesus, held the privelege of of kingship, but not of priesthood.
    In writing his epistle to the Hebrews, St Paul clarified the matter of Jesus' new priestly status with the following: 'It is evident that our Lord sprang out of Judah, of which tribe hath Moeses spake concerning priesthood' (Hebrews 7:14). Just before this, in Hebrews 7:12, the point is made that to accommodate this divergence from custom, there was 'made of necessity a change also of the law'. Nothing is mentioned here about Jesus being able to whatever he wanted because he was the son of God - only that the law had been ammended because of his birth into the Davidic line of Judah.
    Related to this is the Coronation Psalm, which concerns the Davidic throne - 'I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my son; this day have I begotten thee' (Psalm 2:7). This psalm is intimated when Jesus is baptised in the Jordan by John. Matthew 3:17, Mark 1:11 and Luke 3:22 all state that a voice from heaven said, 'This is [or Thou art] my beloved Son'.
    When confronted by others as to whether he was the son of God, Jesus generally avoided the issue. In Matthew 26:63-64, when asked by the High Priest whether he was in truth the son of God, Jesus replied, 'Thou hast said' - implying that the priest had said itm not he. In Luke 22:70, Jesus answered in virtually identical terms: 'Then said they all, Art thou the son of God? And he said unto them, Ye say that I am'. On other occasions, Jesus responded to the effect that he was the 'son of man' (as in Matthew 26:63-64).
    Apart from the Davidic Psalm reference, the perception of Jesus as the son of God emanates from things said about him by others in the text. For example, John 20:31 states, 'But these things are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God'. Similarly in Acts 9:20 when Paul is said to have preached the Christ was the son of God. There are forty-five such entries in the New Testament, which state that Jesus was 'declared to be', 'preached as', 'believed to be', 'was called' the son of God. Alternatively, there are ninety mentions of his being the 'son of man', the majority of which references were made by Jesus himself.
    The Greek biblical references to 'son of man' are: huios ho anthropos. The linguistic equivalents are: Aramaic, bar nasha, and Hebrew, ben adam. In each case the phrase means simply 'a man - a human being'.
    Luke 3:38 clarifies that Adam was the first of the line to be called the son of God. More important to the overall picture is that the Bible cites certain deserving people as being the 'children of God', commencing in the New Testament with Jesus' own words in Matthew 5:9: 'Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the children of God'. Once again, just as in the case of Jesus, the operative word is called 'called'.
    All things considered, the term 'son of God', as applicable to Jesus, was a figurative and symbolic description, whereas his physical lineage from King David is given on numerous occasions as being the human reality of his position. The most important thing here is that it was the kingly line of David which was especially considered to be God's offspring, not Jesus as a lone individual. This premise is laid down in 2 Samuel 7:13-14, where God is recorded as announcing in respect of Kind David: 'He shall build an house for my name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom for ever. I will be his father, and he shall be my son'.


    "Only two things are infinite,
    the universe and human stupidity,
    and I'm not sure about the former."
    - Albert Einstein

  2. #14
    BANNED-Warned multiple times about instigating. User then reported topics multiple times to mess with staff.
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    No reason to think Jesus of Nazareth ever existed. Walk on water, then come talk to me.


    http://www.jesuspuzzle.com/


  3. #15
    Igneous Magma orgaelin's Avatar
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    Not of Nazareth! Nazareth didn't even exist at the time of Jesus' birth! It was Jesus the Nazarene. A reference to his belonging to the sect of the same name.

    ~ Org.

    "Only two things are infinite,
    the universe and human stupidity,
    and I'm not sure about the former."
    - Albert Einstein

  4. #16
    technę rez's Avatar
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    didnt Jesus come from Galilei, which was a town historically known for its poor peasents, robbers, rebels, and magicians? This is a reason why Jesus was looked upon in a negative light amonst the Jews?

    Theres also speculation from bibical scholars that Jesus was an apostle of John the Baptist who preached the end was near.


    Nowadays the only people that are preaching that they are Jesus and have powers are people on the streets. If you realsiticly look at it, Jesus back then was the same bum you would now see on the streets of New York City.

    John the baptist ate honey and locusts, he lacked food nuitrition. He was a dellusional bum that appealed to other malnutritioned bums. After John was killed, Jesus took his spot and lead the way. After jesus died a couple of dellusional bums 40 years later made up stories about him saying he was god's messiah and untill Constatine this bogos religion was allowed, consequently allowing dellusional bums kill others for not believing in their god - how ironic?

    I dont care how accurate my story is, I know that it is fucking better then a human floating in the air, only if the religious nuts could stop viewing Jesus christ as a person with yellow squirting out around his body. I love the pictures of Jesus Christ actually. I wish I looked like him, too bad he didnt have that big Jewish nose with greasy curley hair - I bet everybody would relate to that better, right?

    Anyway, I guess once Jesus hit a certain part of the atmosphere he traveled at the speed of light to a 3-d Heaven with a god that went through the same evolutionary process as we humans did. Does god have fingers and a penis? Are we saying god pisses and poops?


    The bible is more accurate than most non believers want to admit..
    You seperate the non belivers from the believers here saying that NON-believers do not want to ADMIT the bible is accurate. Its like you are saying non-believers know the bible is accurate and that they just dont want to say it is.

    Its fun to think about people being magically healed and rising from the dead and shit and I do wish it happened, but I know it didnt. I took the side of Jesus Christ when I was a young boy, but now I am a young adult in College required to CRITICALLY THINK ABOUT WHAT IS GOING ON IN THE WORLD. I am looking for evidence that Jesus rose from the dead, but I cant find any BECAUSE THERE IS nothing out there that will show, but only show HE DID NOT RISE FROm the dead.

    The apostles wrote the gospels a long time after Jesus died, THE BIBLE IS NOT AN EYE WITNESS ACCOUNT. The authors were not interested in History, but convincing people that jesus was the promised messiah.

    The funny thing is, you the big Christian probably dont even know about this.

    Heres a question for any Christian on this message board. Name 5 other texts where Jesus was mentioned....I dont care if you google it because it will require you to actually critical think about the question.

    I think that even in today's mistranslated and corrupted incarnation, the main message still manages to eek through.

    That is a good thing, good for mankind and good for our collective soul.

    What the fuck do you mean by "COLLECTIVE SOUL?" I only ask because I dont want some other religious nut repeating it and have no clue what it means.

    Last edited by rez; 31st March 2005 at 02:03 PM.

  5. #17
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    Quote Quote by: Lilith
    I kind of like the story that Jesus was a member of a Mystery school type religion and that his *resurrection* was staged as a rite of passage in those mysteries.....
    Lilith, have you been reading Masonic textbooks?


  6. #18
    It's my life Lilith's Avatar
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    Lou, you might be surprised at some of the stuff I have read. I don't think that I have read "Masonic" textbooks in the pure sense...but alot of the books that I have read touch on those concepts. Fascinating stuff...can you recommend any good ones, if you read them?

    If you want the country to go to hell in a handbasket, then vote for the one who can drive you there blindfolded.

  7. #19
    It's only logical Sonart's Avatar
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    Christ was real, History backs it up
    Buddha was real, Confusious was real, Mohammad was real and Joseph Smith was real. So what's your point?


    .

    I don't suffer from insanity... I thoroughly enjoy it

  8. #20
    BANNED-Warned multiple times about instigating. User then reported topics multiple times to mess with staff.
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    I'm not sure about this, but I don't think there is much good evidence that Siddartha was a real person.


  9. #21
    Igneous Magma orgaelin's Avatar
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    Lilith,

    The theory as I have read and believed it is that Jesus was a member of the Jewish sect at Qumran, where the Dead Sea Scrolls were found.

    Basically, when the Romans first took over Jerusalem they abolished the Jewish kingship and priesthood. However, one group of priests were allowed to take over in place. Many considered these priests to be wicked because they were accepting of the Romans and their casual attitude to the holy laws. The original priests were disgusted, but had been exiled from the city. So they set up their new home at Qumran, living by very strict rules.

    There were all sorts of levels within this new order. There was much of what would now be called racism, in that non-Jewish converts were looked upon far less favourably than born-Jews. Birthright was everything to these people.

    These levels often had meanings that have lead to confusion nowadays. For example, when Jesus finally "ascended to Heaven", he was actually going back into total isolation within the priesthood to complete another level of his ongoing initiation.

    You hear the whiney sort of Christians go on about how they feel they can relate to Jesus and feel him in their hearts etc... but very few people have a concept that is even close to what he really was. We're talking about a man who was so dedicated to his faith that there was nothing else of any importance in the entire world. Even his love life came, not just second, but virtually last in his list of priorities, as was the way for these people. If people today have the kind of commitment to their religion that Jesus had they are called extremists, and there is a greater similarity between an islamic fundamentalist suicide bomber in Iraq and Jesus than there is with any Westerner in our entertainment-first style of life.

    And when Jesus said in the bible to gather up all of your clothes and sell them, and to give up everything you had so that you may devote yourself to God, this was really what he expected. Forget your playstations, your houses, even your wives. And any man who can't do these minimum requirements would have been, in the eyes of Jesus, not just unworthy, but wholly disgusting.

    That doesn't mean I think he was right, and that Christians should really do all this. In Jesus' time this wasn't much of a big deal because people didn't have much richness to give up, and there was no science to explain the wonders of the world, leaving only daily chores and religion to pass peoples' time away. However, it is gross hypocrisy for any man to call himself a follower of Christ yet not do as he would have expected of them. All that 'rich man through the eye of the needle' stuff wasn't just a clever saying to him - Jesus stated quite clearly that rich people don't go to heaven any more than camels fit through the eyes of needles.

    Basically it is like this: the bible says that to go to heaven you must give up everything and devote every scrap of your being to the work of God, to believing in him, adoring him, following his laws, and most importantly, spreading his word. It also says that if you don't do these things there's only one other place for you and it's called eternal damnation, among other things. It doesn't say you can go to your local branch of the Catholic Pennies-For-Forgiveness Institute and regret your sins after a lifetime full of them and then get into heaven. It says sin=damnation. Forgot to pray? Oops. To hell with you.

    And therefore any Christian who doesn't take all of this onboard is in fact not a Christian at all, but a Freethinker who makes his own mind up as to what is true.

    It requires EXTREME ignorance for someone to claim that the bible is the inspired and faultless word of God, but then fail to do what it says and yet still expect to go to heaven!

    *Breathing*... ok... *gasp*.... fine now! Someone else want a turn to speak?!

    ~ Org.

    "Only two things are infinite,
    the universe and human stupidity,
    and I'm not sure about the former."
    - Albert Einstein

  10. #22
    It's only logical Sonart's Avatar
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    Quote Quote by: Gorgo
    I'm not sure about this, but I don't think there is much good evidence that Siddartha was a real person.
    My, how casually you deny Buddha's existance, without even bothering to check.


    .

    I don't suffer from insanity... I thoroughly enjoy it

  11. #23
    BANNED MerlinsByte's Avatar
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    eastern thought

    Quote by: Gorgo
    I'm not sure about this, but I don't think there is much good evidence that Siddartha was a real person.
    ...Sonart replies...My, how casually you deny Buddha's existance, without even bothering to check.
    Merlin replies...I feel out of ignorance, that I am either or, on the ( Siddartha) the Buddha's existence.

    However this "religious movement" (of Buddhism) with its nation changing, kind, and sometimes benevolent methods of seeing the universe(s), are a testament to eastern thought, and place it on an alter gving me somthing pure to aspire to, even by my christian way of thinking.....


    MB

    Last edited by MerlinsByte; 31st March 2005 at 09:30 PM. Reason: that quote thing 2nd clarity...3rd Dang! more clarity

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    "The empty tomb is a silent testimony to the resurrection of Jesus Christ, that has never been refuted to this day...The story of the resurrection if not real, would not have reached us.
    " -
    Never been refuted? Thats some good shit your smokin' buddy.

    -btw, "I read it on the internet" does not mean it's true. It anything it means it's wrong

    Last edited by phishman; 31st March 2005 at 10:52 PM.

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