Alienable Rights?

[Ned]

We all hear so much rhetoric about "RIGHTS" these days, but in order to lay claim to these rights, we must acknowledge that these rights have a source.

Human Rights
Constitutional Rights
Civil Rights
(name it and somebody thinks they have a "Right" to it)

All claims to "Rights" are hollow unless these rights have legitimacy. How is legitimacy bestowed upon these "Rights"? Why is it that anyone can invoke any supposed "Right" as unalienable?

The Founding Fathers of the United States understood well that "Rights" do not materialize out of thin air, but must be imposed by an authority beyond reproach.

Does the State bestow these Rights? or Gia? or God?

And if there is not a well from which any Right flows how can anyone lay claim to them? Who is to say then that any "Right" is more or less valid than any other?

[Impenitent]

you only have the rights which you take, and take by force ...

if you don't use it, you don't have it

[PeterWolf]

Impenitent,

How cute, are you saying that it's fine to take whatever you want, that being your right?

[suijurisfreeman]

I make absolutely no claim of any "civil rights", I am not a member of the body politic. I make absolutely no claim of any "Constitutional rights", I am not a party to any Constitution, didn't sign it, never swore an oath to support it. I am a free Human Being, therefore I am the source of any and all rights that I claim to possess. I believe that I have he "right" to do whatever I please as long as I do not infringe upon the right of any other Human Being to do the same. Will I always do whatever I please? No, exercising one's rights requires responsibility. I have exercised my rights for over 10 years now, I have not harmed another Human Being, their rights or property.
I've got "rights" because I've got the balls to claim them, declare them, exercise them and defend them! Long live individualist-anarchism!

[Impenitent]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (PeterWolf,)
Impenitent,

How cute, are you saying that it&#39;s fine to take whatever you want, that being your right?<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

yep, might makes right...

but of course it is fluid...

it gets taken back and revenge (justice) is also taken... (with this a &#39;new&#39; right is created)

if you have the power to act without consequence, you will...

the ultimate power corrupts ultimately

[tusaki]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (suijurisfreeman,)
I have exercised my rights for over 10 years now, I have not harmed another Human Being, their rights or property.
<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

-offtopic- No offence, but could you make 1 post without this sentence in it somewhere? :)

[Ned]

I expected intelligent discourse on this topic and the above is what I got.
I have to say fellas, y&#39;all are a disappointment&#33;

I declare the worst of the above to be: "I believe that I have he "right" to do whatever I please as long as I do not infringe upon the right of any other Human Being to do the same"

I guess when any boob can get an internet account this is the kind of idiocy that can be expected.

If there is sombody who is not a kook, I would like to hear from you on this topic.

For those not intelligent enough to understand my implication in my initial post, I will plainly state that I believe that if we are to claim any &#39;Rights" we MUST also acknowledge that these rights are given by God. Not to do so means that our &#39;Rights&#39; are subject to the folly of humanity.

[The Fyrdman]

It isn&#39;t God, but humans ourselves who choose what we deem to be rights, as long as we fight for them (and continue to win, of course).


There are no such thing&#39;s as natural rights, just the &#39;space&#39; you make for yourself.

[tusaki]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (G. Adams,)
It isn&#39;t God, but humans ourselves who choose what we deem to be rights, as long as we fight for them (and continue to win, of course).

There are no such thing&#39;s as natural rights, just the &#39;space&#39; you make for yourself.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>
Agreed, rights are given by those who write the law. And in the case of suijurisfreeman, he gives himself the rights. For the rest of us, we have the rights given to us by the state and the people who support it.

The more I think of it, the more it seems like a right is a contract between the people who form a community. They tell each other: these are the rights of the people and we will punish the ones who fail to acknowledge these rights.

So to answer the topic: The rights do not come from god. Rights come from the standards we set ourselves.

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Ned,)
Not to do so means that our &#39;Rights&#39; are subject to the folly of humanity."<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

Yep.

[Ned]

tusaki,

By allowing humans to set the standards for rights we are setting ourselves up to loose those rights. By setting God as the bearer of our rights, no man may usurp the will of God. Thus our rights are more secure.

[tusaki]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Ned,)
tusaki,

By allowing humans to set the standards for rights we are setting ourselves up to loose those rights. By setting God as the bearer of our rights, no man may usurp the will of God. Thus our rights are more secure.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>
Even if that may be true. All the rights man claims to have, have been invented by man. Even if the rights come from the bible or quran, we are talking about an interpertation of those rights by man. So I wouldn&#39;t believe you if you said we have rights given to us by god, because how do I know for sure those rights were not the wishes of an ancient priest? Also, even if you declare I have those rights, there will be someone else in the world who claims I have not. Thus I don&#39;t believe in absolute rights.

[The Fyrdman]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Ned,)
tusaki,

By allowing humans to set the standards for rights we are setting ourselves up to loose those rights. By setting God as the bearer of our rights, no man may usurp the will of God. Thus our rights are more secure.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

??? So if these are God&#39;s rights, he protects them? The logic must follow then that the Holocaust was within the rights of the Nazi&#39;s, because he didn&#39;t stop it did he?

No, I can&#39;t lose my rights. I either agree to the rights that the community is setting, I leave the community, or I fight the community. In all cases, I keep my rights to what I see fit. If I choose to sit back and watch the government &#39;take&#39; my rights from me, then I am not loosing my rights because I am not doing anything about it.

At worst, I can lose my rights temporarily while I fight, but within a warzone there is no limit on my rights either, so thats not much of an angle either. And besides, I either die (no rights lost that affect me any longer) I succeed and reclaim my rights, or I capitulate and therefore agree to fewer rights.