Poll shows Republicans still misinformed

[truthreality]

And only a minority of americans are aware of the futility and stupidity of arguing about the republicrat and demopublican parties as if they were somehow different in practice and not already bought and paid for.

That's because only a minority of Americans believe in ridiculous conspiracy theories.

[DTrace]

That's because only a minority of Americans believe in ridiculous conspiracy theories.

Yes, only the thinking minority has noticed that their history books, judicial courts, political system, business world and newsmedia are filled with references to all kinds of conspiracies and corruption.

The majority will just stick a piece of paper in a box once every 4 years in order to choose (together with the electoral college) between a few already pre-selected people that have hundreds of millions of dollars behind them. Then the majority will brag about american "democracy" and spend their lives arguing about "republicrats vs demopublicans" while they wonder why they are getting increasingly poorer, devoid of civil rights and seeing the concentration of wealth increase no matter which party is in power.

[truthreality]

Yes, only the thinking minority has noticed that their history books, judicial courts, political system, business world and newsmedia are filled with references to all kinds of conspiracies and corruption.

The majority will just stick a piece of paper in a box once every 4 years in order to choose (together with the electoral college) between a few already pre-selected people that have hundreds of millions of dollars behind them. Then the majority will brag about american "democracy" and spend their lives arguing about "republicrats vs demopublicans" while they wonder why they are getting increasingly poorer, devoid of civil rights and seeing the concentration of wealth increase no matter which party is in power.

So what is your solution?

[DTrace]

So what is your solution?

Quite frankly I don't have to offer any solution. I was just pointing out that the american political process is corrupt and that what is shown to the public is mostly showbiz. But since you asked:

If politicians are influenced by corporate america then perhaps the people could try voting with their wallets against such corporations.

More parties and candidates with easier access to the ballot in all states.
An hour of free daily time on all TV channels, with time equally divided between all candidates, starting a few months before the elections (instead of candidates needing millions of dollars for TV time).
Drastically restrict or abolish campaign contributions.
Restrict donations from the private sector to government even outside elections.
Abolish the electoral college.
Outlaw the "revolving door" between private and public sectors.
More power to elected officials and less power to appointed officials.
Perhaps a clean criminal record as a requirement for all candidates and appointees of all government positions?

Put civics classes in the required curriculum of all schools.
Get involved in the process instead of being a spectator.

Those are the standard ones from the top of my head and apply to lots of other countries as well.

[Trojan_Ripper]

Yes you are right. I should hear myself and see what I type before I speak to you. I should be sure to dumb my posts down to your level. You are trying to argue that leftover unusable chemical weapon stockpiles from 12 years ago are WMDs. THEY ARE NOT FUCKING WMDS. Bush admitted he was WRONG. In order for a weapon to be weapon the weapon has to work. These stockpiles were completely and utterly useless. These stockpiles could in no way remotely create any sort of "mass destruction" or "minimum destruction". They are just useless chemicals leftover. Even if he wanted to he couldn't have done anything with them. If he had WMDs we would have found actual weapons and weapons that worked. We would have found a program. We would have found intent to do destruction. We didn't find a single usable WMD or a program. Having a WMD program 12 years ago that was halted by the U.N. is not the same as having a WMD program now. This entire thread is about how Republicans are ignorant because they still think Iraq had WMDs. In other word: THE OP DOESN'T AGREE WITH YOUR STUPID FUCKING ARGUMENT THAT IRAQ HAD WMDs.

I think it might be MORE then just Republicans that are Misinformed.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/interna...7pDf7AZ3RO9qnM

I don't need advice from someone who doesn't understand why the damaged chemical weapon stockpiles in Iraq bunkers where an issue because of the chemicals not the weapon.

Hmmm? Chemicals like mustard gas don't = weapons to some people. Check.

I think you're right....you need more than advice don't you think? LOL

[truthreality]

I think it might be MORE then just Republicans that are Misinformed.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/interna...7pDf7AZ3RO9qnM

Lol. You think quoting from a Republican news source is going to help your case? I think I am going to have to spell everything out for you again. I guess reading comprehension is really going down in America:

From your source:

"The massive cache of almost 400,000 Iraq war documents released by the WikiLeaks Web site revealed that small amounts of chemical weapons were found in Iraq and continued to surface for years after the 2003 US invasion, Wired magazine reported."

"The documents showed that US troops continued to find chemical weapons and labs for years after the invasion, including remnants of Saddam Hussein's chemical weapons arsenal -- most of which had been destroyed following the Gulf War."

Inquiry told Iraq could not 'use' chemical weapons:

"Foreign Office official Sir William Ehrman told the war inquiry that a report suggested that such weapons may have been "disassembled"."

"A separate report suggested Iraq might also "lack" warheads capable of spreading chemical agents, he added."

"He also said it was a "surprise" no weapons of mass destruction (WMD) were ever found in Iraq."

No WMDs in Iraq:

"During its investigation, the ISG reported that "[a] total of 53 munitions have been recovered, all of which appear to have been part of pre-1991 Gulf war stocks based on their physical condition and residual components.""

"Saddam Hussein ended the nuclear program in 1991 following the Gulf war. ISG found no evidence to suggest concerted efforts to restart the program."

"While a small number of old, abandoned chemical munitions have been discovered, ISG judges that Iraq unilaterally destroyed its undeclared chemical weapons stockpile in 1991. There are no credible indications that Baghdad resumed production of chemical munitions thereafter."

"In practical terms, with the destruction of the Al Hakam facility, Iraq abandoned its ambition to obtain advanced BW [biological warfare] weapons quickly. ISG found no direct evidence that Iraq, after 1996, had plans for a new BW program or was conducting BW-specific work for military purposes."

"Experts from the three nations failed to document any existent biological or nuclear weapons and discovered only a few random chemical weapons. The ISG concluded that contrary to what most of the world had believed, Iraq had abandoned attempts to produce WMDs. In his congressional testimony, the head of the ISG, Charles Duelfer, admitted, "We were almost all wrong" on Iraq."

"The ISG report was sufficient to convince the Bush administration that there were no WMDs to be found; they called off the search in 2005."

All that was found in Iraq were abandoned chemical munitions that had dissembled many many years ago. AGAIN NO WMDS WERE FOUND. Without the chemicals these weapons could have been put in a museum. That's how useless they were.

Hmmm? Chemicals like mustard gas don't = weapons to some people. Check.

I think you're right....you need more than advice don't you think? LOL

As Senor Hoint correctly stated even though the weapons were unusable does not mean the chemicals or pathogens were not dangerous. This is the reason why Iraq was most likely hesitant to get rid of these "weapons."

[Dieval]

oh, no...nobody ever claimed that there was a nuclear threat...

Wait!

http://www.leadingtowar.com/claims_facts_yellowcake.php

Condoleeza Rice never said, "We don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud."

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/qu...ezz164877.html

They just claimed they were in the middle of an active and terribly dangerous process of acquiring all they needed to be a nuclear threat...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_aluminum_tubes

So, many people did claim that Iraq was actively seeking nuclear weapons. Many people did claim it was possible they were so close to habving them that we had to act or...

"The smoking gun would be a mushroom cloud", so...lets not pretend that there was no attempt to gin up fear of nuclear weapons in Iraq.

None of those state they had nuclear weapons, which is exactly the words I used. Nuclear "threat" is entirely different....and since the ISG disagree's with your assessment...

Scientific Research and Intention to Reconstitute WMD

Many former Iraqi officials close to Saddam either heard him say or inferred that he intended to resume WMD programs when sanctions were lifted. Those around him at the time do not believe that hemade a decision to permanently abandon WMD programs.Saddam encouraged Iraqi officials to preserve the nation’s scientific brain trust essential for WMD. Saddam told his advisors as early as 1991 that he wanted to keep Iraq’s nuclear scientists fully employed. This theme of preserving personnel resources persisted throughout the sanctions period.

Saddam’s primary concern was retaining a cadre of skilled scientists to facilitate reconstitution of WMD programs after sanctions were lifted

Saddam would have restarted WMD programs, beginning with the nuclear program, after sanctions, according to Tariq ‘Aziz. Saddam never formally stated this intention, according to ‘Aziz, but he did not believe other countries in the region should be able to have WMD when Iraq could not. ‘Aziz assessed that Iraq could have a WMD capability within two years of the end of sanctions.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/li...ol1_rsi-06.htm

The intent was there, even though they didn't have the ability...yet... Again, no one ever said that he had working nuclear weapons, but his intent to one day create them was quite valid.

[Dieval]

TR, short of truth(and the others on his end) actually being there and seeing for themselves, they can only believe that no weapons were found, Saddam was completely innocent and Iraqi's were better off under his gentle, and legally elected, rule.. I'm done with this waste of time.

[Dan74]

TR, short of truth(and the others on his end) actually being there and seeing for themselves, they can only believe that no weapons were found, Saddam was completely innocent and Iraqi's were better off under his gentle, and legally elected, rule.. I'm done with this waste of time.

From the Iraqi testimonies I've heard, they were actually better off under his rule. One of the chief problems with forcing democracy is that stability tanks completely and the people suffer. Sorry, but democracy at the point of a gun doesn't work.

[truthreality]

TR, short of truth(and the others on his end) actually being there and seeing for themselves, they can only believe that no weapons were found, Saddam was completely innocent and Iraqi's were better off under his gentle, and legally elected, rule.. I'm done with this waste of time.

I don't need to be there when those who actually conducted the search and were there concluded that NO WMDS WERE FOUND. The Iraqis were definitely much better off under Sadam's rule then they are now.

[Trojan_Ripper]

I don't need to be there when those who actually conducted the search and were there concluded that NO WMDS WERE FOUND. The Iraqis were definitely much better off under Sadam's rule then they are now.

So the Iraqis “were definitely much better off under Sadam's rule then they are now”. I always wondered why his OWN PEOPLE hung his ass along with his cousin ‘Chemical Ali’ for crimes against humanity when they were so much better off when he was around.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8479115.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6218485.stm


You’re still on that kick that “NO WMDS WERE FOUND” and that all sources that say they did are conservative? Well how about CNN and The Guardian….will they work from say May of 2004 findings? Maybe this time it will be the weapons inspectors or the Danish troops who don’t know what they’re talking about?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/jan/11/iraq

http://articles.cnn.com/2004-05-26/w...er?_s=PM:WORLD

[Dodds]

So the Iraqis “were definitely much better off under Sadam's rule then they are now”. I always wondered why his OWN PEOPLE hung his ass along with his cousin ‘Chemical Ali’ for crimes against humanity when they were so much better off when he was around.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8479115.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6218485.stm


You’re still on that kick that “NO WMDS WERE FOUND” and that all sources that say they did are conservative? Well how about CNN and The Guardian….will they work from say May of 2004 findings? Maybe this time it will be the weapons inspectors or the Danish troops who don’t know what they’re talking about?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/jan/11/iraq

http://articles.cnn.com/2004-05-26/w...er?_s=PM:WORLD

From your link TR.

However, the find of a small amount of mortar shells is unlikely to satisfy a growing chorus of criticism that the much-touted weapons of mass destruction either never existed or were destroyed years ago. The Danish team has found only 36 mortar rounds buried in desert about 45 miles from Al Amarah, a southern town. But it added that up to a 100 more could still be hidden at the location. The rounds were in plastic bags and some were leaking. It seems they had been buried for at least 10 years.

Even coalition military spokesmen said the weapons were likely to be a leftover from the Iran-Iraq war fought during the Eighties when mustard gas was widely used. The gas blisters the skin painfully and can be lethal if it is breathed in. Victims die in excruciating agony.

Even though mustard gas is nasty stuff, do you really think that 36 old decaying mustard gas warheads is really a good enough reason to invade?