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Thread: When is it okay to steal?

  1. #61
    Hot Lava iolo's Avatar
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    Quote Quote by: Dieval View Post
    Going off on a rant about how bad capitalism is and how it's affecting the environment is not on topic and I shouldn't have asked that follow up questions. PLEASE DISREGARD MY QUESTION IN POST 33. I'm done going down this path so I hope you enjoy yourself.
    YOur concept of 'ranting' (i.e. disagreeing with righwing drivel) is peculiarly American. Bye-bye.


  2. #62
    Trolletariat's Enemy Thanatos's Avatar
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    Quote Quote by: finder View Post
    When you steal from someone you deprive them of the dignity of choice while you decide you need what's theirs more then they do. That is a crime.When you're overcharged you may decide not to purchase. No crime.
    Dignity of choice?

    Businesses that charge more for an inferior product would never survive unless the choices of the consumer were limited, coerced or manipulated.

    The way the market works out, there often isn't any opportunity to present a choice. All the world's businesses and institutions could easily stop using Office products and start using something else, but the need for full interbusiness compatibility means there can only be one.

    Marketing, geography, and a desire for familiarity can all allow this sort of practice to survive. The bookstore I mentioned survives because, if you need something before your next class starts, you have little other choice- Staples exists, but is a good distance away. Why does Lucky Charms survive alongside similar-tasting sugary offbrands? 'Cause the offbrands don't have an ad campaign with Leprechauns. Don't get me going on advertising though.

    I personally do not want to get rid of capitalism. I want to prune it, stake it, and make it into English topiary. There should be rules, but they should foster desirable growth and limit undesirable growth to create a landscape that is both sustainable and not trying very hard to kill you. Certain people here would let it run wild and turn into a rather vicious, dark and pointlessly deadly jungle.

    The more you complain, the less I care about your problems.

  3. #63
    Volcanic Erupter finder's Avatar
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    Quote Quote by: truthreality View Post
    Ummm...The entire point of the Bible is to serve Yaweh and Jesus for free. Are you not aware of this? Did you think Christians got paid for serving Jesus? You are serving something: money. Your master is money.
    Uh, no. God offers everlasting life. Look at a couple of verses you quoted...

    "Whoever is generous to the poor lends to the Lord, and he will repay him for his deed." Proverbs 19:17

    "Sell your possessions, and give to the needy. Provide yourselves with moneybags that do not grow old, with a treasure in the heavens that does not fail, where no thief approaches and no moth destroys. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also." Luke 12:33-34

    Indeed, God's message has always been it pays to trust him and hurts not to. It pays to keep scripture in context.

    If you want to "live off the land" per say, you already enjoy the freedom to do so. I however like the fact that people grow and raise my food. I appreciate that they prepare it and send it to the markets so all I have to do is purchase it. And I don't mind paying a fair price for that convenience. I just don't feel so entitles to think all those fine folk owe it to me to do what they do for free. I frankly don't understand why you think they owe you a free life sort a speak.

    Quote Quote by: BlackSheep View Post
    And you you dismiss my experiences.
    Quote Quote by: arX View Post
    Irony. You're simply divine at exhibiting it and I want to make sweet sweet love to you for it.
    "The trouble with people is not so much with their ignorance as it is with their knowing so many things that are not so." ~ William Alanson White

  4. #64
    Intellectual truthreality's Avatar
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    Quote Quote by: finder View Post
    Uh, no. God offers everlasting life. Look at a couple of verses you quoted...

    "Whoever is generous to the poor lends to the Lord, and he will repay him for his deed." Proverbs 19:17

    "Sell your possessions, and give to the needy. Provide yourselves with moneybags that do not grow old, with a treasure in the heavens that does not fail, where no thief approaches and no moth destroys. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also." Luke 12:33-34

    Indeed, God's message has always been it pays to trust him and hurts not to. It pays to keep scripture in context.

    If you want to "live off the land" per say, you already enjoy the freedom to do so. I however like the fact that people grow and raise my food. I appreciate that they prepare it and send it to the markets so all I have to do is purchase it. And I don't mind paying a fair price for that convenience. I just don't feel so entitles to think all those fine folk owe it to me to do what they do for free. I frankly don't understand why you think they owe you a free life sort a speak.
    I sarcastically referred your book of mythology. I don't really give a fuck what it says. People can grow food, prepare it and send it to stores without capitalism. All of this can be done for the good of society not for profit. No one owes me anything. When you have imbalance like we have in the world there is an issue. The system we have in place right now is not effective. The imbalance that exists is not healthy. Big businesses are stealing. Period. Those who monopolize natural resources are stealing. The fuck are you saying? You don't think the poor are capable of processing natural resources for use? How about instead of depriving them of the chance you give them the opportunity to use the natural resources that should be available to everyone? Donald Trump doesn't need more money for his 30th wife. Starving humans in Africa need food.


  5. #65
    Volcanic Erupter finder's Avatar
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    Quote Quote by: Thanatos View Post
    Dignity of choice?

    Businesses that charge more for an inferior product would never survive unless the choices of the consumer were limited, coerced or manipulated.

    The way the market works out, there often isn't any opportunity to present a choice. All the world's businesses and institutions could easily stop using Office products and start using something else, but the need for full interbusiness compatibility means there can only be one.

    Marketing, geography, and a desire for familiarity can all allow this sort of practice to survive. The bookstore I mentioned survives because, if you need something before your next class starts, you have little other choice- Staples exists, but is a good distance away. Why does Lucky Charms survive alongside similar-tasting sugary offbrands? 'Cause the offbrands don't have an ad campaign with Leprechauns. Don't get me going on advertising though.

    I personally do not want to get rid of capitalism. I want to prune it, stake it, and make it into English topiary. There should be rules, but they should foster desirable growth and limit undesirable growth to create a landscape that is both sustainable and not trying very hard to kill you. Certain people here would let it run wild and turn into a rather vicious, dark and pointlessly deadly jungle.
    I understand what you're saying. Back in the late 70' early 80's it had became common knowledge that gasoline could be made from household garbage but the oil companies bought up the patents. Now how much is true and what are the details I don't know but on the face of it, it was a travesty. Still is in light of all the alternative ways we know are available today to power our cars. But I still can't justify stealing gas or from gas stations.

    I agree. Capitalism works best when there is legislation keeping it from becoming a heartless jungle. But to swing the pendulum too far the other way as truthreality suggest eliminates the incentives that would cause people to want to provide services and products for the rest of us. To me that world would be just as cruel.

    Quote Quote by: BlackSheep View Post
    And you you dismiss my experiences.
    Quote Quote by: arX View Post
    Irony. You're simply divine at exhibiting it and I want to make sweet sweet love to you for it.
    "The trouble with people is not so much with their ignorance as it is with their knowing so many things that are not so." ~ William Alanson White

  6. #66
    Volcanic Erupter finder's Avatar
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    Quote Quote by: truthreality View Post
    I sarcastically referred your book of mythology. I don't really give a fuck what it says. People can grow food, prepare it and send it to stores without capitalism. All of this can be done for the good of society not for profit. No one owes me anything. When you have imbalance like we have in the world there is an issue. The system we have in place right now is not effective. The imbalance that exists is not healthy. Big businesses are stealing. Period. Those who monopolize natural resources are stealing. The fuck are you saying? You don't think the poor are capable of processing natural resources for use? How about instead of depriving them of the chance you give them the opportunity to use the natural resources that should be available to everyone? Donald Trump doesn't need more money for his 30th wife. Starving humans in Africa need food.
    You know, I'd like to see a more compassionate world too. But your approach isn't grounded in reality. It's grounded in envy and class warfare.

    Quote Quote by: BlackSheep View Post
    And you you dismiss my experiences.
    Quote Quote by: arX View Post
    Irony. You're simply divine at exhibiting it and I want to make sweet sweet love to you for it.
    "The trouble with people is not so much with their ignorance as it is with their knowing so many things that are not so." ~ William Alanson White

  7. #67
    Intellectual truthreality's Avatar
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    Quote Quote by: finder View Post
    You know, I'd like to see a more compassionate world too. But your approach isn't grounded in reality. It's grounded in envy and class warfare.
    Wrong. I am not envious of anyone nor am I asking for a class warfare. Do you have a rebuttal that isn't a strawman's argument? Global warming is on the horizon so you better consider my approach as reality. Your a Christian so I understand that you may not comprehend facts. Why do you respond at all? Do you understand that your responses are nothing more then mockable?


  8. #68
    Volcanic Erupter finder's Avatar
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    Quote Quote by: truthreality View Post
    Wrong. I am not envious of anyone nor am I asking for a class warfare. Do you have a rebuttal that isn't a strawman's argument? Global warming is on the horizon so you better consider my approach as reality. Your a Christian so I understand that you may not comprehend facts. Why do you respond at all? Do you understand that your responses are nothing more then mockable?
    Rebuttal? To what? You think everything should be free for you and "big brother" should assign people jobs for the good of the hive? I know you're not Christian so you may not comprehend facts. But we are a capitalistic society and an over all successful one despite some recent set backs. Yes, I understand you can't make your case so you resort to mockery. I've noticed that is a pattern to your debating style.

    Quote Quote by: BlackSheep View Post
    And you you dismiss my experiences.
    Quote Quote by: arX View Post
    Irony. You're simply divine at exhibiting it and I want to make sweet sweet love to you for it.
    "The trouble with people is not so much with their ignorance as it is with their knowing so many things that are not so." ~ William Alanson White

  9. #69
    Intellectual truthreality's Avatar
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    Quote Quote by: finder View Post
    Rebuttal? To what? You think everything should be free for you and "big brother" should assign people jobs for the good of the hive? I know you're not Christian so you may not comprehend facts. But we are a capitalistic society and an over all successful one despite some recent set backs. Yes, I understand you can't make your case so you resort to mockery. I've noticed that is a pattern to your debating style.
    Yes no shit we are a capitalistic society. Just because the United States at one time condoned the lynching of blacks doesn't mean the United States shouldn't have changed. Do you not understand changing for the better? Capitalism is a broken system.


  10. #70
    blasphemer grandpa's Avatar
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    Quote Quote by: truthreality View Post
    Yes no shit we are a capitalistic society.
    Just because the United States at one time condoned the
    lynching of blacks doesn't mean the United States shouldn't have
    changed.
    AS time goes on, terms like "capitalistic society" either annoy, bore or confuse the hell out of me. We technically don't have a "free market," yet we're all in the habit of calling it "capitalism." Maybe this thread is invalid as well, given that this country was founded on stolen land, yet we couldn't quite "give it back" anymore.

    We tend to believe as we're told, given the training or procedures to follow.

    Grandpa h.

    Post by post, building his arguments by smashing a couple of theirs -- for America.

  11. #71
    Hot Lava iolo's Avatar
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    Quote Quote by: grandpa View Post
    AS time goes on, terms like "capitalistic society" either annoy, bore or confuse the hell out of me. We technically don't have a "free market," yet we're all in the habit of calling it "capitalism." Maybe this thread is invalid as well, given that this country was founded on stolen land, yet we couldn't quite "give it back" anymore.

    We tend to believe as we're told, given the training or procedures to follow.

    Grandpa h.
    Well, when all's said, all the various societies now in existence exist for individual profit, and that's capitalism.


  12. #72
    blasphemer grandpa's Avatar
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    Quote Quote by: iolo View Post
    Well, when all's said, all the various societies now in
    existence exist for individual profit, and that's capitalism.
    True. Whether they will dress in traditional Muslim garb or fancy suits, it roughly amounts to the same thing. That is the point. Amen.

    Grandpa h.

    Post by post, building his arguments by smashing a couple of theirs -- for America.

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