I can't trust "fundies", can you?

[xx_mortekai_xx]

Therein shows meekness. The meek are often afraid to lie and deceive for fear of consequence. It is the bold whom endeavor to deceive.

Im sorry, i dont get your point. Am i supposed to be meek or am I trying to deceive?

[xx_mortekai_xx]

Don't trust them for what they think, but how they act. That's the real problem.

true, but those actions are born from beliefs, correct?

i dont trust the belief. I dont endorse thought police, but I think the kind of thinking that drives fundamentalism in general should be diagnosable. Its harmful at best and dangerous if the situation is right.

[Cephus]

Don't trust them for what they think, but how they act. That's the real problem.

I really don't trust how most of them act. Racism, sexism, hatred of gays, you name it. Bad beliefs cause bad actions.

[finder]

I really don't trust how most of them act. Racism, sexism, hatred of gays, you name it. Bad beliefs cause bad actions.

That may be the way you were as a former Christian but I don't know any who has those values. Glad you're 'ex' in that case.

[xx_mortekai_xx]

That may be the way you were as a former Christian but I don't know any who has those values. Glad you're 'ex' in that case.

oh, please. dont try and act like your holy book doesnt contain specific instances of your god promoting racism, sexism and hatred of gays, amongst other things. Being a christian means either rejecting those things with idiotic handwaving that doesnt make any sense, or to just accept it.

Most of the christians I talk to shrug it off as "oh, that was the old testament" as if somehow god is a new and different god that wasnt the same as the god of abraham.

By the way, finder, you arent doing christians any favors by spouting stupid shit like the above.

[finder]

oh, please. dont try and act like your holy book doesnt contain specific instances of your god promoting racism, sexism and hatred of gays, amongst other things. Being a christian means either rejecting those things with idiotic handwaving that doesnt make any sense, or to just accept it.

Most of the christians I talk to shrug it off as "oh, that was the old testament" as if somehow god is a new and different god that wasnt the same as the god of abraham.

By the way, finder, you arent doing christians any favors by spouting stupid shit like the above.

Nope. Haven't read anywhere in the bible where God promotes those things. And you're right, the embolden part doesn't make sense. Were you waving your hands?

So you agree? Most Christian don't support the morals Cephus decietfully listed?

That's what truth and honor are referred to by atheists these days?

[Thanatos]

Nope. Haven't read anywhere in the bible where God promotes those things. And you're right, the embolden part doesn't make sense. Were you waving your hands?

So you agree? Most Christian don't support the morals Cephus decietfully listed?

That's what truth and honor are referred to by atheists these days?

Not believing in racism or sexism in the Bible is understandable. It's been a while since those verses were quoted in politics; slavery and a woman's right to vote are dead issues. Mostly. The legality of witchcraft, how to kill heretics and whether or not a whale is a fish have also been off the table for a while. There are whole piles of silly religious debates that have slipped from our primary cultural memory...

However, modern Christian homophobia is something that only a hermit could miss. They are not only extant but really quite obnoxious. How is what they do justified? What makes them Christian? You can ask them and they'll explain it better than I can.

See, this is a representative sample of the problem. Fundies are hard to fully trust because they are often utterly incapable of criticizing their own beliefs or acknowledging faults.

[finder]

Not believing in racism or sexism in the Bible is understandable. It's been a while since those verses were quoted in politics; slavery and a woman's right to vote are dead issues. Mostly. The legality of witchcraft, how to kill heretics and whether or not a whale is a fish have also been off the table for a while. There are whole piles of silly religious debates that have slipped from our primary cultural memory...

Even if "those verses" were still quoted in public today they would not promote slavery, or oppression of women or abusive behavior towards each other. That's not what they promoted then and there is surely no reason to think they promote that today. In short, "those verses" were directed to the children of Israel, who happened to be prideful and barbaric and who regularly conducted themselves in such manor. As did most of the world around them at the time. God, who entered into a covenant with Abraham began to exercise his will in keeping to the Abrahamic covenant. As you probably know, it included a long process of separating the Israelites from the rest of the world and changing them. Part of that process was to address them where they were when it came to how they treated their fellow man/woman. They kept slaves and oppressed woman at the time so he began implementing laws that slowly and incrementally changed them from the inside over the centuries to the point today where they, nor we as Christians, agree with the past barbaric conduct. Had he just outlawed it outright the people would not have changed inwardly over the expanse of time. And we see the results of that kind of approach around the world today. Ever notice the ineffectiveness of UN laws forbidding slave trafficking in countries who exploit and have exploited their fellow human beings for generations? Contextual understanding is everything.

However, modern Christian homophobia is something that only a hermit could miss. They are not only extant but really quite obnoxious. How is what they do justified? What makes them Christian? You can ask them and they'll explain it better than I can.

To not believe homosexual behavior is morally acceptable is not the same as homophobia is it? I for one am not afraid of homosexuals or of becoming one. I just don't think it's right for me to be a part of it. Those that spread hate towards homosexuals...I would agree with you, "what makes them Christian?" Using bible verses for nefarious reasons doesn't mean scripture promotes it.

See, this is a representative sample of the problem. Fundies are hard to fully trust because they are often utterly incapable of criticizing their own beliefs or acknowledging faults.

That could be said of anyone. It's the misrepresentations of our beliefs we do not accept. Faults, we all have, but anyone who allows faults that are nonexistent to be attributed to them without first trying to put things in perspective is more untrustworthy in my book. If someone will sell themselves out for the sake of appeasement who know what they'll see you out for.

[ironeagle]

I have a number of fairly good acquaintances at work that you'd call christian fundamentalists. They seem to be fairly normal people about everything but religion. When it comes to religion I notice I treat then as if they were psychopaths. IOW, I treat them just like I would treat anyone who heard voices in their heads. In normal conversation I can almost see them straining as they ask themselves, what would jesus do? I can't trust them because they don't think for themselves, their moral framework is interpreted from an old storybook. I feel as if they could justify anything based on what their preacher told them last Sunday or how they interpreted a particular passage in the bible. They are, to me, perfectly and completely psychotic because they are capable of doing anything and justifying it to themselves with their faith.

Does anyone else feel this way about christian fundamentalists or fundies from other religions?

One could pressume the same about you. How can I trust an aimless "wnaderer" with no particular set of values or creed. What will the person do? Do they have any higher sense of responsibility to themselves, this world, or anyone in it? a lack of belief in a God is just as rediculous as a belief in a God. Perhaps they do hear God, how do you know they don't. If they do perhaps you think them crazy because God hasn't chosen to talk to you. I'd trust them before I'd trust you because I can take an easy look at their values and know what they re going to do, but you on the other hand well I suppose you'll just do whatever aimlessly with nothing I can see or know to help me determine what you might do in any situation. If I assume you have no morals then I can assume you'll do just about anyhing at your own whim. I find that more dangerous than any religion.

[xx_mortekai_xx]

One could pressume the same about you. How can I trust an aimless "wnaderer" with no particular set of values or creed. What will the person do? Do they have any higher sense of responsibility to themselves, this world, or anyone in it? a lack of belief in a God is just as rediculous as a belief in a God. Perhaps they do hear God, how do you know they don't. If they do perhaps you think them crazy because God hasn't chosen to talk to you. I'd trust them before I'd trust you because I can take an easy look at their values and know what they re going to do, but you on the other hand well I suppose you'll just do whatever aimlessly with nothing I can see or know to help me determine what you might do in any situation. If I assume you have no morals then I can assume you'll do just about anyhing at your own whim. I find that more dangerous than any religion.

Thanks for displaying your massive ignorance, but I have to say that it is really ugly in this light.

If you feel it justified to trust someone who gets their values from a 2000 year old book of murder, genocide, rape, and torture, you be my guest. Ill stay away from war crimes and those who think they are somehow good.

Oh, and why would you assume that someone who doesnt believe would have no morals? Where in your ass, exactly, did you pull that gem from?

[Jack]

I'd trust them before I'd trust you because I can take an easy look at their values and know what they re going to do, but you on the other hand well I suppose you'll just do whatever aimlessly with nothing I can see or know to help me determine what you might do in any situation.

This kind of attitude would have led people in the 1980s to invest all their money with Jim Bakker, a "decent, moral" Christian, who wound up in prison for fraud, rather than putting their money behind Bill Gates, a non-believer who went on to found Microsoft and make his early investors millionaires. It doesn't seem to me that judging a person by whether or not they have imaginary friends is a very good indicator of character.

[Elithium]

I have never met a single Christian who gets his morals from the bible. They get their morals from society and then interpret the bible in a way that supports those morals. The parts of the bible that disagrees with those morals are ignored.

For instance, stoning disobedient children, adulterers, gays, etc. When was the last time you saw a good old fashioned stoning?

I have a number of fairly good acquaintances at work that you'd call christian fundamentalists. They seem to be fairly normal people about everything but religion. When it comes to religion I notice I treat then as if they were psychopaths. IOW, I treat them just like I would treat anyone who heard voices in their heads. In normal conversation I can almost see them straining as they ask themselves, what would jesus do? I can't trust them because they don't think for themselves, their moral framework is interpreted from an old storybook. I feel as if they could justify anything based on what their preacher told them last Sunday or how they interpreted a particular passage in the bible. They are, to me, perfectly and completely psychotic because they are capable of doing anything and justifying it to themselves with their faith.

Does anyone else feel this way about christian fundamentalists or fundies from other religions?