Trying to Kill Social Security

[grandpa]

The gathered from the tone of your entire reply the
implication of your intent runs along the lines of 'tough
crap for them they screwed up and there's consequences.'

Sounds like the Heritage Foundation. Maybe this unemployment is preparation for a military draft that's coming. Who knows?

I will say this much: I've been laid off plenty of times, and can barely find work anywhere right now. There's very little I could do about it years back, and very little I could do about it now.

And even those working 40 hours a week or more are often not much better off than I am. So what are we supposed to believe? Not only is capitalism the reality dying, but so is capitalism the mythology. Few people are able to just swallow the pill anymore.

Grandpa h.

[grandpa]

After having actually looked at the US Federal budget predictions,
what you have asked is not based in reality.
The deficit is falling even with substandard growth.

"The number of people receiving Medicare and Social Security benefits
is expected to nearly double to about 80 million.
Unless Congress acts, spending on Medicare, Medicaid and Social
Security alone could eventually consume as much money as the federal
government now spends on all federal programs, Crippen said."
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.f...9401b1d474437e

I think they'll cut such social programs and expand the military, as our politicians are wont to do.

The fact is, all these systems seem to be substandard, not just the United States.
Consider this from a while back:
"...The government has only a two seat majority in the
300-seat parliament, and a recent by-election in Athens
saw a surge for the opposition led by ex-Prime Minister A. Papandreou, an
opponent of many of the free market policies. Mr. Papandreou's party,
which ruled in the 80s, is widely held responsible for leading the country
into wild deficit spending and expanding the government payroll.
But the present government hasn't done much better."
http://groups.google.com/group/bit.l...ba1c43ce2f4143

You'll find plenty of the same debates raging elsewhere, as if no point of view is really sustainable, especially over the long term. It's almost as if all of this is made up and falling prey to human folly.

Grandpa h.

[Hermenutic]

I see you're in Michigan I've got a son in Detroit. He's working, but he described a bleak condition which as a result of his description I came to envisage a community that had been abandoned after a war had destroyed it. He's looking to buy up some property for investments.

I doubt we'll see a draft anytime soon unless it is just to provide jobs. The military is replacing what humans used to do with gadgets that do the same thing making a huge force of men in the military unnecessary.

I've never been laid off and the town I grew up in was a manufacturing town, the first factories harnessed electrical power from the river and they began to make things. As a kid I could quit a job in the morning and have another, often better job in the afternoon. This situation gave the worker genuine power. Now the worker has no power. Now the worker has to say yes to whatever the employer wants. Or the worker can walk the streets hungry.

We need to ask why did this change? Why is it so hard to find work that will allow us to participate effectively in society as a result of honest labor? Many work hard and have trouble finding the ability to engage fully in the economic process. As some will argue it is all their fault. I tend to think the conditions for poverty and a diminished prospect for fiscal viability were deliberately created by the policies and policy makers that moved factories overseas.

Sounds like the Heritage Foundation. Maybe this unemployment is preparation for a military draft that's coming. Who knows?

I will say this much: I've been laid off plenty of times, and can barely find work anywhere right now. There's very little I could do about it years back, and very little I could do about it now.

And even those working 40 hours a week or more are often not much better off than I am. So what are we supposed to believe? Not only is capitalism the reality dying, but so is capitalism the mythology. Few people are able to just swallow the pill anymore.

Grandpa h.

[ironeagle]

Perhaps if the government stopped ripping off these programs for anything they felt like, the program wouldn't be in so much danger? Or perhaps if we the people stopped letting the government rip off these programs for anything they feel like, the program wouldnt' be in so much danger.

[seyorni]

Social Security is fully solvent. Propaganda to the contrary is just that.

[Zeebadee]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/johnthar...t-go-bankrupt/ (emphasis added)

And primarily...

]

You seem to have missed the fact that there is no cash in the SS Trust Fund, none at all. It's all been removed, replaced with Treasury notes and spent. When benefits are to be paid, it's the taxpayer that has to redeem those notes, plus interest. Thus, basically the same people that put the money into SS in the first place, are now going to have to put it in again to pay those benefits. Of course SS will never go broke, well, at least not as long as the taxpayers have any cash at all to be extorted.

[truthreality]

You seem to have missed the fact that there is no cash in the SS Trust Fund, none at all. It's all been removed, replaced with Treasury notes and spent. When benefits are to be paid, it's the taxpayer that has to redeem those notes, plus interest. Thus, basically the same people that put the money into SS in the first place, are now going to have to put it in again to pay those benefits. Of course SS will never go broke, well, at least not as long as the taxpayers have any cash at all to be extorted.

Taxes are not extortion. Get you shit straight.

[Zeebadee]

Taxes are not extortion. Get you shit straight.

I think being forced to pay two or three times in order to get my own money returned sure is close then.

SS is a politician's wet dream - start a program that will get you votes, be long gone when the bills come due.

[truthreality]

I think being forced to pay two or three times in order to get my own money returned sure is close then.

SS is a politician's wet dream - start a program that will get you votes, be long gone when the bills come due.

Social security is not even close to extortion. The money that is put into the program is distributed to individuals who need it including the retired and the disabled.

[Zeebadee]

Social security is not even close to extortion. The money that is put into the program is distributed to individuals who need it including the retired and the disabled.

Working people are forced to pay into it. Real money goes in, and is spent. The same people that put it in get to pay again to get their own money back. You get taxed on your FICA contributions when you earn it, and are subject to income taxes when you are paid any benefits. Double taxation. Then, you pay in when, say, gas is $1.00 a gallon, and are paid back when gas is $4.00 a gallon. If you die before you collect what you paid in, the government keeps the rest of your money. To top things off, you actually have no legal right to that money, the government could conceivable cut you off at any time, and never pay you another dime.

I'm glad you like the program, I hope they raise the retirement age and keep you happy (and paying) for a long, long, time.

[truthreality]

Working people are forced to pay into it. Real money goes in, and is spent. The same people that put it in get to pay again to get their own money back. You get taxed on your FICA contributions when you earn it, and are subject to income taxes when you are paid any benefits. Double taxation. Then, you pay in when, say, gas is $1.00 a gallon, and are paid back when gas is $4.00 a gallon. If you die before you collect what you paid in, the government keeps the rest of your money. To top things off, you actually have no legal right to that money, the government could conceivable cut you off at any time, and never pay you another dime.

I'm glad you like the program, I hope they raise the retirement age and keep you happy (and paying) for a long, long, time.

First you only pay a very very small amount of your money into Social Security. We are talking about 7 or 8% of your income. It's not like you are putting your entire life savings into Social Security. Second Social Security is currently estimated to keep roughly 40 percent of all Americans age 65 or older out of poverty. By putting in a small percentage of your income each year you create a safety net for your retirement while at the same time helping others. The Social Security system gives everyone the opportunity to save a lot of pain the future by devoting a very small percentage of their earnings each year.

[Zeebadee]

First you only pay a very very small amount of your money into Social Security. We are talking about 7 or 8% of your income. It's not like you are putting your entire life savings into Social Security. Second Social Security is currently estimated to keep roughly 40 percent of all Americans age 65 or older out of poverty. By putting in a small percentage of your income each year you create a safety net for your retirement while at the same time helping others. The Social Security system gives everyone the opportunity to save a lot of pain the future by devoting a very small percentage of their earnings each year.

You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. First of all, 7 or 8 percent is not a "very very small amount". Second, your employer matches that amount, in effect taking it out of your salary. So, it's actually 14-16% that they take from you. And most people pay into it for more than 40 years.